sw4400 Posted March 1, 2014 Report Share Posted March 1, 2014 If you read the statement you just made, you claimed Siemens is bankrupt. I just corrected you by saying Siemens is not bankrupt. Why is there any confusion? What does ISE have to do with anything? The 900-Series New Flyer buses are powered by ISE/Siemens. They are down from ten buses to five due to lack of parts because one of these companies filed bankruptcy. It was discussed in a thread somewhere, but embedded in a topic, not in one of it's own. Siemens is reported to be supplying the electric motors for the New Flyer XE40's that are to be built for the CTA. jajuan's post here first mentions the bankruptcy. Kevin's info mentions the 900's were built by ISE-Siemens. I tried searching Siemens and Bankruptcy and came up with some links, but none sounded right. I tried ISE-Siemens, but didn't find anything there. This was the discussed cause for the 900's possibly dropping off of service suddenly. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
See Tea Eh Posted March 1, 2014 Report Share Posted March 1, 2014 The 900-Series New Flyer buses are powered by ISE/Siemens. They are down from ten buses to five due to lack of parts because one of these companies filed bankruptcy. It was discussed in a thread somewhere, but embedded in a topic, not in one of it's own. Siemens is reported to be supplying the electric motors for the New Flyer XE40's that are to be built for the CTA.That's not in question.You said Siemens is bankrupt. Siemens is not bankrupt. The 900-series buses or their ISE-Thundervolt powertrain have nothing to do with the electric buses being built by New Flyer with Siemens technology, which is the subject of this thread.ISE went bust two years before the electric bus contract was awarded. They have nothing to do with these buses. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sw4400 Posted March 1, 2014 Report Share Posted March 1, 2014 That's not in question. You said Siemens is bankrupt. Siemens is not bankrupt. The 900-series buses or their ISE-Thundervolt powertrain have nothing to do with the electric buses being built by New Flyer with Siemens technology, which is the subject of this thread. ISE went bust two years before the electric bus contract was awarded. They have nothing to do with these buses. Ok, I found the link, but if the 900's are a product of ISE-Siemens, why can't Siemens supply parts to get the 900's back on the road again? Scratch what I said about the XE40's being delayed because of that now... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jajuan Posted March 1, 2014 Report Share Posted March 1, 2014 You can't possibly still be making the same mistake of lumping ISE and Siemens as being the same entity, sw. You did that a couple of times before and had to be corrected. Once again. ISE and Siemens are TWO separate companies that worked together to develop the Thundervolt series hybrid drive system on the 900 series DE40LFs. It was ISE that went bankrupt. Siemens did NOT. Therefore we get to what See Tea Eh is pointing out to you, namely the ISE bankruptcy has nothing to do with the delay in the XE40s. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jajuan Posted March 1, 2014 Report Share Posted March 1, 2014 Ok, I found the link, but if the 900's are a product of ISE-Siemens, why can't Siemens supply parts to get the 900's back on the road again? Scratch what I said about the XE40's being delayed because of that now... Read my post, I just made above. Siemens and ISE are two separate companies. ISE was the lead company apparently in developing the Thundervolt hybrid drives, so it would be ISE and NOT Siemens whose having trouble providing parts for the 900s if in fact that is the the reason about half have been sidelined down in South Shops the past few weeks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sw4400 Posted March 1, 2014 Report Share Posted March 1, 2014 You can't possibly still be making the same mistake of lumping ISE and Siemens as being the same entity, sw. You did that a couple of times before and had to be corrected. Once again. ISE and Siemens are TWO separate companies that worked together to develop the Thundervolt series hybrid drive system on the 900 series DE40LFs. It was ISE that went bankrupt. Siemens did NOT. Therefore we get to what See Tea Eh is pointing out to you, namely the ISE bankruptcy has nothing to do with the delay in the XE40s. I'm not... I just stated the bankruptcy has nothing to do with that. What I'm asking is since ISE and Siemens developed the Thundervolt HybriDrive System, can't Siemens alone manufacture parts to keep these buses on the road again? I imagine they can despite not being the lead company. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jajuan Posted March 1, 2014 Report Share Posted March 1, 2014 I'm not... I just stated the bankruptcy has nothing to do with that. What I'm asking is since ISE and Siemens developed the Thundervolt HybriDrive System, can't Siemens alone manufacture parts to keep these buses on the road again? I imagine they can despite not being the lead company. And how are they supposed to cover ISE's end of that colloboration as far as materials, intellectual assets, etc. coming into play? EDIT: To clarify my question, the arrangement could be that it was Siemens who provided the technological research but it was ISE that actually integrated the technologies involved based on that research to put together the finished whole. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sw4400 Posted March 1, 2014 Report Share Posted March 1, 2014 And how are they supposed to cover ISE's end of that colloboration as far as materials, intellectual assets, etc. coming into play? EDIT: To clarify my question, the arrangement could be that it was Siemens who provided the technological research but it was ISE that actually integrated the technologies involved based on that research to put together the finished whole. ISE was bought by Bluways, which is a Belgium rival of theirs that also manufacturers HybriDrive powertrains. Maybe Siemens can contact them about partnering up to build parts for the ISE-Thundervolt buses. I'm sure there are other transit companies with ISE-Thundervolt buses out there that are also sidelined, not just the 10 New Flyer DE40LF's the CTA has. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Busjack Posted March 1, 2014 Author Report Share Posted March 1, 2014 And how are they supposed to cover ISE's end of that colloboration as far as materials, intellectual assets, etc. coming into play? EDIT: To clarify my question, the arrangement could be that it was Siemens who provided the technological research but it was ISE that actually integrated the technologies involved based on that research to put together the finished whole. ISE was bought by Bluways, which is a Belgium rival of theirs that also manufacturers HybriDrive powertrains. Maybe Siemens can contact them about partnering up to build parts for the ISE-Thundervolt buses. I'm sure there are other transit companies with ISE-Thundervolt buses out there that are also sidelined, not just the 10 New Flyer DE40LF's the CTA has. The answer is that ISE was bought by Bitways, and that's who has the intellectual content. If someone wants to manufacture the parts, they could do so through Bitways, or Bitways could do it itself. Furthermore, New Flyer said in its release that it was going to take care of its buses with the ISE system. However, essentially this discussion has gone over the cliff, off the rails, etc. In view of all the reports that the 900s were laid up, I suggested one reason why, but other evidence that they were going to be rehabbed (1050 lighting kits). Since reports are that other than 906, they are starting to show up at Kedzie, the only rational conclusion was that they got some work in house. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jajuan Posted March 1, 2014 Report Share Posted March 1, 2014 ISE was bought by Bluways, which is a Belgium rival of theirs that also manufacturers HybriDrive powertrains. Maybe Siemens can contact them about partnering up to build parts for the ISE-Thundervolt buses. I'm sure there are other transit companies with ISE-Thundervolt buses out there that are also sidelined, not just the 10 New Flyer DE40LF's the CTA has. That's still irrelevant as far as the XE40s are concerned. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NOVABUS7802 Posted April 14, 2014 Report Share Posted April 14, 2014 Ok so after someone mentioned the NovaBus payments i decided since i was bored to just search for bus manufacturers like New Flyers, Optima/Blue bird and Flxible but what i found interesting was that were three payments made to NEW FLYER INDUSTRIES CANADA ULC for the amount of a bus. this was interesting so maybe soon we can see the Xcelsior around Chicago soon. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sw4400 Posted April 14, 2014 Report Share Posted April 14, 2014 Ok so after someone mentioned the NovaBus payments i decided since i was bored to just search for bus manufacturers like New Flyers, Optima/Blue bird and Flxible but what i found interesting was that were three payments made to NEW FLYER INDUSTRIES CANADA ULC for the amount of a bus. this was interesting so maybe soon we can see the Xcelsior around Chicago soon. Well, this is finally a bit of welcoming news on the Electric Bus front...now it's just a matter of waiting to see how long from payments do we see the product bus on CTA property. Also, when will the payment(s) for the other bus($1.1 million, I believe) be sent to New Flyer so the second Xclesior bus can be started on. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BusHunter Posted April 14, 2014 Report Share Posted April 14, 2014 I don't see any payments, check out my links:. Link to contract: http://vcsearch.transitchicago.com/vendorDetail.php?pageNum_WADAtbl_contract=3&totalRows_WADAtbl_contract=49&VENDOR_ID=28311 Payments on contract: http://vcsearch.transitchicago.com/vendorContractDetail.php?CONTRACT_NUM=C11FT101141639 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Busjack Posted April 14, 2014 Author Report Share Posted April 14, 2014 I don't see any payments, check out my links:. Link to contract: http://vcsearch.transitchicago.com/vendorDetail.php?pageNum_WADAtbl_contract=3&totalRows_WADAtbl_contract=49&VENDOR_ID=28311 Payments on contract: http://vcsearch.transitchicago.com/vendorContractDetail.php?CONTRACT_NUM=C11FT101141639 There is something on the meeting agenda that a change order has to be approved (Word doc). As usual, doesn't disclose what it is, but apparently it is another $329K, and the contract also includes charging stations. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BusHunter Posted May 16, 2014 Report Share Posted May 16, 2014 I couldn't help but notice reading the latest ordinances, that just came out from the board meeting on Wed. that the contract states they only have to take one bus if they choose to. Wow $2.5 million for two buses!! But I'm not including the charging systems needed for it. Seeing what's happening at NP I guess this will not be at an outdoor facility. Link below: http://www.transitchicago.com/assets/1/ordinances/014-32.pdf Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Busjack Posted May 16, 2014 Author Report Share Posted May 16, 2014 I couldn't help but notice reading the latest ordinances, that just came out from the board meeting on Wed. that the contract states they only have to take one bus if they choose to. Wow $2.5 million for two buses!! But I'm not including the charging systems needed for it. Seeing what's happening at NP I guess this will not be at an outdoor facility. Link below: http://www.transitchicago.com/assets/1/ordinances/014-32.pdf Nothing new here in that regard; the only thing is a change order to authorize paying $88,000 more for whatever they previously ordered. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sw4400 Posted May 17, 2014 Report Share Posted May 17, 2014 They were supposed to be here in late 2013. I pushed their arrival to sometime in 2014, but this might be a project with snags up with New Flyer and Siemens. An all-electric bus that runs solely on a small electric engine with a diesel generator for heat/A/C(no trolley poles) might have a lot of power issues right now. We're in an age where Hybrid vehicles are tried and true, but an all-electric vehicle is in infancy throughout the automotive world. Tesla I think makes an all-electric car(which I remember was on The Price Is Right once with a price tag of over $100,000). Chevy I believe makes an all-electric car too... the Volt I believe. But I don't think it's a big seller because either the infancy of the technology or the price tag(I don't know what these run). Honestly, we may not see the New Flyer XE40's until 2015 or 2016. Just my thought on these test buses... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
2200fan Posted May 17, 2014 Report Share Posted May 17, 2014 The Chevy Volt runs on electricity but also has a small gas engine w/a generator. Once the battery is discharged, the engine kicks on and you can continue driving. The Tesla is strictly electric w/a large battery. What's the driving range on a battery charge? Will they have quick charging stations at the terminals? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
strictures Posted May 17, 2014 Report Share Posted May 17, 2014 They were supposed to be here in late 2013. I pushed their arrival to sometime in 2014, but this might be a project with snags up with New Flyer and Siemens. An all-electric bus that runs solely on a small electric engine with a diesel generator for heat/A/C(no trolley poles) might have a lot of power issues right now. We're in an age where Hybrid vehicles are tried and true, but an all-electric vehicle is in infancy throughout the automotive world. Tesla I think makes an all-electric car(which I remember was on The Price Is Right once with a price tag of over $100,000). Chevy I believe makes an all-electric car too... the Volt I believe. But I don't think it's a big seller because either the infancy of the technology or the price tag(I don't know what these run). Honestly, we may not see the New Flyer XE40's until 2015 or 2016. Just my thought on these test buses... What happened to the proposed flywheel buses? I haven't heard a thing about them is a long time. I'm guessing that even if they worked as advertised, most CTA routes are far too long to go without midpoint recharging. 96 Lunt is one of the few that it might work on, if it works. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sw4400 Posted May 18, 2014 Report Share Posted May 18, 2014 What happened to the proposed flywheel buses? I haven't heard a thing about them is a long time. I'm guessing that even if they worked as advertised, most CTA routes are far too long to go without midpoint recharging. 96 Lunt is one of the few that it might work on, if it works. You lost me here... flywheel buses? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sw4400 Posted May 18, 2014 Report Share Posted May 18, 2014 The Chevy Volt runs on electricity but also has a small gas engine w/a generator. Once the battery is discharged, the engine kicks on and you can continue driving. The Tesla is strictly electric w/a large battery. What's the driving range on a battery charge? Will they have quick charging stations at the terminals? The driving range on a Tesla is said to be 265 miles(link). I think the goal of both CTA and New Flyer is for these buses to go 100 miles before needing a charge. I can't imagine the charging stations to be at bus terminals, as that would limit the bus to just those route(s). The emergency CTA vans or wreckers might be equipped with a portable charger unit if in the event a bus dies servicing a route, like some people carry for their smartphones while out and about in case their battery requires a charge on the go. I would look for the chargers to be at whatever garage the buses are assigned to. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
2200fan Posted May 18, 2014 Report Share Posted May 18, 2014 You lost me here... flywheel buses? http://www.gizmag.com/flybus-flywheel-hybrid-bus/19766/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
2200fan Posted May 18, 2014 Report Share Posted May 18, 2014 This might work better. http://www.greencarcongress.com/2012/09/lco140h-20120916.html Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BusHunter Posted May 18, 2014 Report Share Posted May 18, 2014 From what I've seen on Natgeo, (yes they have documentaries on both cars) the Volt has an engine as backup and the Tesla has no engine, transmission or anything resembling a motor. It just runs with an enormous battery running the length of the chassis with electrical motors running on the axles just like the 'L". Now in saying that does the all electric New Flyer have just an electric motor? If so, why not build it then like a Volt, where it can jump between gas powered or electric powered until it is a proven vehicle. I can only imagine these buses will be delivered by flatbed because they can't drive the 500 miles from St. Cloud. Now as far as the delays, it seems to be because CTA doesn't have the infrastructure set up to support it yet. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
2200fan Posted May 18, 2014 Report Share Posted May 18, 2014 I found this, the bus has been in service for about 2 months. There is a rapid charging station that charges the bus every hour (!). This is how they run them all day. http://www.newflyer.com/index/050214-battery-electric-bus Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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