Pace Construction

[NewFlyerMCI]

8 hours ago, Railguy said:

Im sure Wheeling will be built for CNG

Hopefully the board and the detractors share your optimism lmao

[RJL6000]

On 12/14/2021 at 8:59 AM, RJL6000 said:

The planned CNG order is not in the agenda for this month. It won't be until early next year at the earliest. And this is if Pace still wants the Wheeling CNG garage, which is now delayed indefinitely following the cancellation of the bidding for construction.

In the meantime, the Des Plaines garage will remain open and operating for the foreseeable future only because Pace can't do anything with this delay in the CNG plans.

To be announced in this upcoming board meeting (January 19):

ENC will be awarded the CNG order. ENC was the lowest of the three bidders for the CNGs, slightly beating New Flyer. The third bidder was (surprisingly) Gillig, whose bid was higher than either ENC’s or NFI’s.

[Busjack]

43 minutes ago, artthouwill said:

Is Plainfield an additional garage or a replacement for Heritage?  My impression was that Plainfield would be the new home for current as well as expanded I - 55 corridor service

 

My comment was based on the following on page 37 of  the 2021 capital budget:

Quote

The Plainfield garage is projected to result in an annual increase of $550,000 in utilities/maintenance expenses and $160,000 in bus routing expenses once operational, assuming local routes are transitioned from Pace’s Heritage garage.

Of course, that's speculation upon speculation

[artthouwill]

1 hour ago, Busjack said:

My comment was based on the following on page 37 of  the 2021 capital budget:

Of course, that's speculation upon speculation

But it does seem logical

 

[NewFlyerMCI]

On 1/15/2022 at 2:49 PM, RJL6000 said:

To be announced in this upcoming board meeting (January 19):

ENC will be awarded the CNG order. ENC was the lowest of the three bidders for the CNGs, slightly beating New Flyer. The third bidder was (surprisingly) Gillig, whose bid was higher than either ENC’s or NFI’s.

Booooooo. Last thing we need is more buses from ENC. XN40’a would’ve looked so good in the Pace scheme

Gillig bidding isn’t surprising. Chicago is one of the big markets they haven’t broken into, and with CNG probably not on the table as an option in the next 10 years, they want to get in where they can now

[Railguy]

Wheeling garage must be a go if the CNG bus  order is on the board agenda

[Busjack]

On 1/18/2022 at 5:49 PM, Railguy said:

Wheeling garage must be a go if the CNG bus  order is on the board agenda

One would think, and the press release announcing Melinda Metzger's appointment so states. There was the contrary indication under of CANCELLED on the AWARDS page (rjl post above).

Anyway, the timeline for both the buses and garage seems like late 2023 or 2024, even though the board previously indicated that's too late.

Tomorrow's board meeting might be interesting.

[Railguy]

Any schedule delays are easy to blame it covid, supply chain manufacturing etc

[NewFlyerMCI]

4 hours ago, Railguy said:

Wheeling garage must be a go if the CNG bus  order is on the board agenda

 

2 hours ago, Busjack said:

One would think, and the press release announcing Melinda Metzger's appointment so states. There was the contrary indication under Open Solicitations (rjl post above), but I see that that page has been replaced by a registration link to the Planroom database. Nothing seems to show up there under Public Jobs.

This seems similar to CTA going over to Bonfire. Either way, it looks like giving fictitious information will no longer allow downloading specifications. I told someone a long time ago that was going to happen.

Anyway, the timeline for both the buses and garage seems like late 2023 or 2024, even though the board previously indicated that's too late.

Tomorrow's board meeting might be interesting.

So much for that "environmental concern" then 

[Busjack]

12 hours ago, Railguy said:

Any schedule delays are easy to blame it covid, supply chain manufacturing etc

At this point, only if relevant to inability to bring a proposed contract to the board. Something else is going on here.

[Railguy]

CNG bus order approved for Wheeling.  

[Busjack]

15 minutes ago, BusHunter said:

Pace wants to increase the service on the I-55 corridor, stating that they will be buying more mcis. Somewhere I heard 30 more buses. So that will just about fill that garage. I thought to they might want to run the flex service on I-294 out of Plainfield, so its strictly going to be a highway garage. The capacity heritage has lost should be regained with the loss of the 6900s. 

The board discussion was that the number of MCIs was limited because MCI would not commit to making D4000s more than 2 years out. But Pace didn't agree to a 150 bus garage just to house maybe 50 buses.  See the excerpt above, and compare to River being expanded to 150 buses for both local and I-90 work.

[BusHunter]

16 hours ago, Busjack said:

The board discussion was that the number of MCIs was limited because MCI would not commit to making D4000s more than 2 years out. But Pace didn't agree to a 150 bus garage just to house maybe 50 buses.  See the excerpt above, and compare to River being expanded to 150 buses for both local and I-90 work.

Yes but they dont yet know the success of flex buses so they will need a little room to grow. I dont see a plainfield garage serving joliet. Thats alot of deadhead miles. All the other garages are in the home cities where the most routes are in place. 

[Busjack]

3 hours ago, busfan2847 said:

Pace Wheeling garage was supposed to be cng.

It still is, and Pace bought the buses. I was only speculating on why the Awarded Contracts page listed that solicitation as canceled (gone now).

The Open Solicitations page now says:

Quote

PLEASE NOTE: Pace announces a Rebuild Illinois-funded construction project at its Northwest Division CNG Bus Maintenance and Storage Facility in Wheeling. The solicitation will be available on February 10 through the “Welcome to our Planroom” link located below. For questions, please email Procurement@pacebus.com.

Although Pace is now using Planroom, the solicitations are still in the table at the bottom of the page.

[Busjack]

The Planroom page for the Wheeling project is visible, without registration.

[artthouwill]

On 1/19/2022 at 8:17 PM, Busjack said:

The board discussion was that the number of MCIs was limited because MCI would not commit to making D4000s more than 2 years out. But Pace didn't agree to a 150 bus garage just to house maybe 50 buses.  See the excerpt above, and compare to River being expanded to 150 buses for both local and I-90 work.

Maybe MCI is considering phasing out the D4000s.  Most TAs usually go with 45ft buses.  It's about time for Pace to consider doing the same.  This explains why MCI was getting contracts from Pace as Prevost only offers its X3 and commuter coaches in 45ft length.  MCI still has the 45 ft D commuter and the CrE 45 ft commuter.  

[BusHunter]

18 hours ago, Busjack said:

The Planroom page for the Wheeling project is visible, without registration.

Isnt that kind of late in the game. 50 something buses are coming this year with the lions share in '23. Where will they go south? When new pulse comes online how will that work with no garage? Could they possibly fuel up in wheeling and work out of nw? 

[artthouwill]

4 hours ago, BusHunter said:

Isnt that kind of late in the game. 50 something buses are coming this year with the lions share in '23. Where will they go south? When new pulse comes online how will that work with no garage? Could they possibly fuel up in wheeling and work out of nw? 

Are 50 CNGS coming this year?  According to the Pace Board Meeting,  the idea was to time the CNG arrivals to coincide with the opening of Wheeling garage.   Other than sitting at South Holland,  there's really no place to put them.  I don't know if South has enough room for 50 buses  but at least it's a CNG facility.  

Add to that West 6323s are only 9 years old so retirement is still at least 3 years away.  I don't think Pace would build a temporary CNG fuel tank at NW due to space constraints.  I can see accepting deliveries 3 to 4 months before Wheeling opens but definitely I don't see a year early.  But what do I know?

[Busjack]

4 hours ago, artthouwill said:

Are 50 CNGS coming this year?  According to the Pace Board Meeting,  the idea was to time the CNG arrivals to coincide with the opening of Wheeling garage.   Other than sitting at South Holland,  there's really no place to put them.  I don't know if South has enough room for 50 buses  but at least it's a CNG facility.  

Add to that West 6323s are only 9 years old so retirement is still at least 3 years away.  I don't think Pace would build a temporary CNG fuel tank at NW due to space constraints.  I can see accepting deliveries 3 to 4 months before Wheeling opens but definitely I don't see a year early.  But what do I know?

You know plenty. It was 47 buses, to be coordinated with Dempster Pulse and Wheeling Garage, with Melinda Metzger having said at the board meeting that the bus manufacturer  would be so directed. There was a question about the timing of the Wheeling Garage, but the solicitation noted above takes it off the schneid.

Aside from that, I don't recall any buses being delivered within a year of the board action, and there is no indication that Pace haas given a notice to proceed;  the contrary  is indicated by Metzger's comment and REV Group not having yet posted a press release.

[Busjack]

News item on Pace's front page on Pace Welcomes Congresswoman Lauren Underwood for Tour of New Plainfield Facility

Note that, in addition to saying that the garage is slated to open in June, it uses, for the first time, the phrase "Heritage Plainfield Garage."

Draw your own conclusion.

[BusHunter]

51 minutes ago, Busjack said:

News item on Pace's front page on Pace Welcomes Congresswoman Lauren Underwood for Tour of New Plainfield Facility

Note that, in addition to saying that the garage is slated to open in June, it uses, for the first time, the phrase "Heritage Plainfield Garage."

Draw your own conclusion.

Well they might as well run heritage out of there. While they have recieved more mcis that are not yet in service, they also have the flex lanes on the tri state that look to be at least a year away. The planning seems to be poor at Pace. Its not coordinated with what's being constructed. 

Then they have the wheeling thing going on. The debate of if wheeling was to be cng at all is a hint of how premature the construction is there. Then buses are on the way that are cng. So wth??? Usually Pace is ran pretty efficiently, this is the one time I just dont know. But I have questioned an all one garage electric bus facility. From what cta has experienced, it may be too early for that, hopefully Pace doesnt end up with the egg on their faces. 

[BusHunter]

Hmm Busjack in reading the articles the only hint of heritage going there is the one word heritage mentioned once. It is promoted as a highway garage. Dont know what to say. I think the jury is still out on this. Can 130 buses fit both heritage and plainfield together. I see the new mci's got in the press release photos. They look nice. 

[Busjack]

12 hours ago, BusHunter said:

Hmm Busjack in reading the articles the only hint of heritage going there is the one word heritage mentioned once. It is promoted as a highway garage. Dont know what to say. I think the jury is still out on this. Can 130 buses fit both heritage and plainfield together. I see the new mci's got in the press release photos. They look nice. 

There's something like 24 30' buses in Joliet service and 37 MCIs on hand, so that's certainly under the 130  capacity the article says.

[RJL6000]

For the second time, the CNG garage construction is listed as "CANCELLED" for reasons not revealed. I am now speculating that there were either no bids for the RFP or all of the bids came in too high (specifically, a lot higher than Pace had anticipated).

This results in further delay of the CNG plans for Wheeling. If this keeps up, then Pace would have to cut service on all routes because it simply cannot afford to run its older buses forever without replacement (and that is the direct result of Pace announcing that it wouldn't order any more diesel buses). This could devastate transit in the entire Chicago metropolitan area, and might result in Chicagoland being one of the very first of the largest metropolitan areas to rely solely on the private automobile for all commuting.

[Busjack]

1 hour ago, RJL6000 said:

For the second time, the CNG garage construction is listed as "CANCELLED" for reasons not revealed. I am now speculating that there were either no bids for the RFP or all of the bids came in too high (specifically, a lot higher than Pace had anticipated).

....

There is a bid tabulation form, indicating that Path Construction Co., with which Pace has done business, has a low bid of $81.5 million. 

The other possibility is reflected in the Planning/Infrastructure meeting (discussed here) is that if the intent is to plan ahead for future electrification, things mentioned in the consultant's presentation, like having to raise the roof at North and the need to have more buses for shorter schedule blocks, and thus to store them, may have caused staff to do a double take.

I can't figure out what amount was anticipated, as garage construction is not part of the 2022 capital plans.

2 hours ago, RJL6000 said:

This results in further delay of the CNG plans for Wheeling. If this keeps up, then Pace would have to cut service on all routes because it simply cannot afford to run its older buses forever without replacement (and that is the direct result of Pace announcing that it wouldn't order any more diesel buses). This could devastate transit in the entire Chicago metropolitan area, and might result in Chicagoland being one of the very first of the largest metropolitan areas to rely solely on the private automobile for all commuting.

I don't see that happening. Putting aside the question of replacing 30' buses, the oldest 40' buses are listed as 2013, which means that they would not be scheduled for replacement until 2025, and, due to COVID cutbacks, aren't getting the workouts they once did. Only real question is how long Pace can work out of cramped quarters in Des Plaines.

Maybe there will be an explanation at next Wednesday's meeting (but I'm not counting on it).