Busjack Posted December 4, 2012 Report Share Posted December 4, 2012 Correct thread: As an Aside to this discussion. I just saw (noon 12/4) a nova articulate bus headed west on Madison right by Western. It did not seem to have the CTA paint scheme. Maybe headed to Chicago for a demostration???? not sure. From the location, probably the "Welcome Back D Rose" caravan. Seriously, the addendum to the specifications containing the minutes of the prebid meeting state: Question #2 came from Prevost--Can Nova supply a demo bus? CTA response was that it was not officially decided but if a bus was invited to the property, it would more than likely come during the meetings with those proposers in the competitive range. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sw4400 Posted December 5, 2012 Report Share Posted December 5, 2012 The NOVA LFS Articulated seen could've been any number of things... -A passerby on the way to another Transit Authority to show for potential business -A possible future deal might be in the works with NOVA Bus for that mixed order of 40' and 60' buses that was put out for bids awhile back. Maybe NOVA was bringing it to 77th for CTA Brass to look at. A demonstrator was brought there a few years back(just a standard 40' NOVA LFS then). All we can do is wait and check back with the CTA and NOVA Bus for future news updates... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Busjack Posted January 4, 2013 Report Share Posted January 4, 2013 Since someone got me to look at the Green Grant Status page, there are pending requests for 62 hybrid articulated buses under 2012 FTA programs. I assume that that would be for buses under this requisition, while the $30 million already funded for hybrid buses is for the 33 currently being delivered. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sw4400 Posted January 5, 2013 Report Share Posted January 5, 2013 Since someone got me to look at the Green Grant Status page, there are pending requests for 62 hybrid articulated buses under 2012 FTA programs. I assume that that would be for buses under this requisition, while the $30 million already funded for hybrid buses is for the 33 currently being delivered. Something isn't making sense... Purchase up to 5 battery-electric buses: It says 2.2 million for 2 buses, but when was there any request for up to five??? Up to 7 diesel-electric articulated buses and hoists: This was part of the 2011 FTA Clean Fuels Program. What happened to these buses? It says this was not selected. Up to 75 diesel-electric articulated buses and hoists: This one was awarded, but it says 75, not 62. The applied and pending ones equal sixty two(50+12). So are we getting 137 articulated buses(75+62)? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Busjack Posted January 5, 2013 Report Share Posted January 5, 2013 Something isn't making sense... It makes sense. CTA applied for grants that the feds did not give them. The feds didn't give the Tollway any of the grants it requested either. The ones with the open circles indicate partially granted. For instance out of the $72.8 million requested for up to 75 hybrid buses, the feds awarded $30 million for presumably 33 hybrid buses, for which Durbin took sole credit. And, as I mentioned earlier, you did not have the answer for why only 33 of the 100 4300s were hybrid, but the preceding paragraph is the answer. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Busjack Posted January 10, 2013 Report Share Posted January 10, 2013 The Agenda for 1/11 (Word doc) includes: C12FT101275135 The manufacture and delivery of a minimum of three hundred (300) and a maximum of four hundred and fifty (450) low floor, 40 foot, accessible, air conditioned, conventional clean diesel transit buses. $148,000,000.00 (Not-to-Exceed) So I guess we will find out about that part of the order soon. If the "not to exceed" is for the 450, $329k per bus seems too low to me. Maybe only the initial 300 are being authorized, which at $493K sounds more reasonable. Also, no mention of the 50-150 60 foot buses. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jajuan Posted January 10, 2013 Report Share Posted January 10, 2013 The Agenda for 1/11 (Word doc) includes: C12FT101275135 The manufacture and delivery of a minimum of three hundred (300) and a maximum of four hundred and fifty (450) low floor, 40 foot, accessible, air conditioned, conventional clean diesel transit buses. $148,000,000.00 (Not-to-Exceed) So I guess we will find out about that part of the order soon. If the "not to exceed" is for the 450, $329k per bus seems too low to me. Maybe only the initial 300 are being authorized, which at $493K sounds more reasonable. Also, no mention of the 50-150 60 foot buses. Sounds like they're realizing going beyond 308 artics is pushing it given the number of garages currently available and those garages' maintenance capabilities and storage capacities as they do the garage rehabs over two years. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RailBus63 Posted January 11, 2013 Report Share Posted January 11, 2013 So, does the agenda item mean we will find out Friday who the contract will be awarded to? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sw4400 Posted January 11, 2013 Report Share Posted January 11, 2013 So, does the agenda item mean we will find out Friday who the contract will be awarded to? My top two picks... 1) New Flyer 2) NOVA Bus If it's New Flyer, they'll probably be D40LFR's, if NOVA Bus, LFS(the ones with the fin on the end of the bus) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChicagoNova Posted January 11, 2013 Report Share Posted January 11, 2013 My top two picks... 1) New Flyer 2) NOVA Bus If it's New Flyer, they'll probably be D40LFR's, if NOVA Bus, LFS(the ones with the fin on the end of the bus) I kinda wish CTA would award the contract to NOVA Bus (just for giggles ). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Busjack Posted January 11, 2013 Report Share Posted January 11, 2013 I kinda wish CTA would award the contract to NOVA Bus (just for giggles ). Or just for something the same but entirely different. But there may be a question about all the "we kindly request"s. Anyway, I went to Nova's site twice and didn't find what I needed for this topic, so I'll wait until about 11:00 a.m. for da woid. Update: Since the 40 foot part is being awarded separately, it could be anybody, except NABI for $101 million reasons, or if my calculations are correct, ElDorado National (unless they bid $90,000 more a bus than they bid to Pace). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sw4400 Posted January 11, 2013 Report Share Posted January 11, 2013 Update: Since the 40 foot part is being awarded separately, it could be anybody, except NABI for $101 million reasons, To quote legendary WWE Owner Vincent Kennedy McMahon's famous words in this scenario: "NABI has no chance in hell of winning this contract. Not a chance in hell!!!" or if my calculations are correct, ElDorado National (unless they bid $90,000 more a bus than they bid to Pace). Looking at the ElDorado National Bus Dealer page here, it isn't possible for them to be involved, as their bus sizes range from 20' to 37', with a capacity range of 10 to 37 passengers(CTA is looking for 40' buses). So unless there is another company out there that makes 40' buses of a good quality, my bet is still New Flyer or NOVA Bus. Upon looking a bit further into ElDorado, it looks like the Axess model comes in 40' sizes, despite the main page info. But since it's a brand new model to the market, I think the CTA might shy away after the NABI fiasco of 2003, when the 60-LFW's were basically new to the market then as well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Busjack Posted January 11, 2013 Report Share Posted January 11, 2013 To quote legendary WWE Owner Vincent Kennedy McMahon's famous words in this scenario: "NABI has no chance in hell of winning this contract. Not a chance in hell!!!" You better watch what you are saying. Do you know who owns NABI, and who said they were just buying out Jewel? Same company. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Busjack Posted January 11, 2013 Report Share Posted January 11, 2013 Looking at the ElDorado National Bus Dealer page here, it isn't possible for them to be involved, as their bus sizes range from 20' to 37', with a capacity range of 10 to 37 passengers(CTA is looking for 40' buses). What do you think Pace buses 6323 to at least now 6340 are? 40 foot ElDorados. This is the correct brochure on their site. You found the site of some bus dealer, not ElDorado National itself. But, as I indicated, Pace says they are paying $404 K or $416K a bus, not over $490. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sw4400 Posted January 11, 2013 Report Share Posted January 11, 2013 You better watch what you are saying. Do you know who owns NABI, and who said they were just buying out Jewel? Same company. I guess that means that our stores will be falling apart soon, huh? :blink: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sw4400 Posted January 11, 2013 Report Share Posted January 11, 2013 It's down to these two, I believe... may the better bus get the contract!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sw4400 Posted January 11, 2013 Report Share Posted January 11, 2013 Sounds like they're realizing going beyond 308 artics is pushing it given the number of garages currently available and those garages' maintenance capabilities and storage capacities as they do the garage rehabs over two years. I believe the full order for mixed 40'/60' is for 450 total. Minimum being 300 and maximum being 450. I doubt the CTA will approve all 450 to be 40' buses. Look for 320-350 of the order being 40' buses, with the difference being the 60' portion(100-130, depending on amount of 40' buses ordered). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Busjack Posted January 11, 2013 Report Share Posted January 11, 2013 I believe the full order for mixed 40'/60' is for 450 total. As I noted above, the addendum changed that to up to a total of 600 buses over 5 years, not the sliding scale originally advertised. The only thing I would read into this was jajuan's speculation about why the initial quantity of the 60 foot buses was not on the agenda. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr.cta85 Posted January 11, 2013 Report Share Posted January 11, 2013 It's down to these two, I believe... may the better bus get the contract!!! As I said before I'll take it to the bank that new flyer will be getting the contract but I would be surprised if nova gets it. Although I think it would be pretty cool if cta gave it to both and just split the order of making the 40fters. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Busjack Posted January 11, 2013 Report Share Posted January 11, 2013 ...Although I think it would be pretty cool if cta gave it to both and just split the order of making the 40fters. More than likely, that isn't going to happen, for no other reason than each bidder had to bid on the minimum quantity of 300. You can't tell who the low bidder is if you just split the difference, not would a company that bid on 300 accept an award of 150, since one would assume that the price is based on some volume. Also, since one of the criteria is compatibility, splitting the order sure wouldn't assure that. In fact, I was somewhat surprised that CTA said they would split off the articulated orders from the 40 foot one, although they apparently have. But no word as of 12:30. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kevin Posted January 11, 2013 Report Share Posted January 11, 2013 It's Nova. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Busjack Posted January 11, 2013 Report Share Posted January 11, 2013 Nova. I just found it, but you beat me. The power of the administrator. Press Release. The other thing of interest to us is " following delivery of a prototype in December with full-production expected to begin in February 2014." And as far as the articulated buses "The CTA's plans for an upcoming purchase of up to 150 new articulated (60-foot) clean diesel and hybrid buses, which are also part of the bus fleet modernization plan announced in 2012, will be announced upon completion of the procurement process." No indication whether the procurement process was hung up for the reason jajuan said or something else (one would at least think that NF could have met existing specs, but you never know). And for the person who started this thread with a "gotcha," it looks like the long standing members of this group got it about right, and you didn't get a commission on this deal. As Judge Marilyn Milan says "so, sad, too bad." Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jajuan Posted January 11, 2013 Report Share Posted January 11, 2013 As I noted above, the addendum changed that to up to a total of 600 buses over 5 years, not the sliding scale originally advertised. The only thing I would read into this was jajuan's speculation about why the initial quantity of the 60 foot buses was not on the agenda. You would have guessed correctly. I was looking at this as maybe they're rethinking their game plan on the 60 foot front as it's possible that they looked at their available garage space currently on hand and how fast they can get upgrades done to increase it, and thinking they might want to stick closer to just 50 artics (the minimum under the initial announcement) under this mixed order of buses for now under those circumstances. I wasn't saying that they weren't going to get anymore at all after the 100 currently being delivered. It would be interesting if they did bypass both New Flyer and NOVA and went with El Dorado for the Axxess model. If that were to happen I think one with endcaps like the two red and white models and the green and white from the brochure you linked would look good on Chicago streets. But I definitely would like to see them go New Flyer and get the 40 foot LFRs. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Busjack Posted January 11, 2013 Report Share Posted January 11, 2013 You would have guessed correctly. I was looking at this as maybe they're rethinking their game plan on the 60 foot front as it's possible that they looked at their available garage space currently on hand and how fast they can get upgrades done to increase it, and thinking they might want to stick closer to just 50 artics (the minimum under the initial announcement) under this mixed order of buses for now under those circumstances. I wasn't saying that they weren't going to get anymore at all after the 100 currently being delivered. But as indicated in the Press Release (maybe you didn't see it when you posted), they didn't pull the plug on the minimum 50 either, at this time; the procurement process continues. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jajuan Posted January 11, 2013 Report Share Posted January 11, 2013 But as indicated in the Press Release (maybe you didn't see it when you posted), they didn't pull the plug on the minimum 50 either, at this time; the procurement process continues. Oh no I don't mean they pulled the plug. I was thinking maybe they're considering staying very close to that 50 minimum. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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