2012 40'/60' Procurement

[Mr.cta85]

If you all look at the 1st pics of the 1000 series at navy pier, you know would notice the new type of seats only in the back of the bus and the original seats in the front, but now since they have all the new seats in the 1st 1000 series bus since the last time I drove them like I said earlier which was a few months ago.

[jajuan]

But 1000s in not that same 1000s The 1000s now was make in 2007 the other 1000s was 2005.

One could probably presume they'd start with the 1000s that were delivered in 2006 and work their way down to the final ones delivered in 2007.

[Busjack]

One could probably presume they'd start with the 1000s that were delivered in 2006 and work their way down to the final ones delivered in 2007.

It is not clear to me whether he was distinguishing between a prototype bus #1000 and the current bus #1000, given prior reports of white prototypes, a bus out of the 1000-2029 sequence at Chicago garage, etc. It appears that no one is posting VIN delivery lists (but I am willing to stand corrected).

But, as usual, pace2322 could clarify himself.

[BusHunter]

It is not clear to me whether he was distinguishing between a prototype bus #1000 and the current bus #1000, given prior reports of white prototypes, a bus out of the 1000-2029 sequence at Chicago garage, etc. It appears that no one is posting VIN delivery lists (but I am willing to stand corrected).

But, as usual, pace2322 could clarify himself.

I always believed #1000 was always the same bus. The seats were just added later.

[Mr.cta85]

I always believed #1000 was always the same bus. The seats were just added later.

Yeah me too I never even knew it was actually 2 #1000 series buses, I always thought the prototype bus of the 1000 series was the actual bus. Didn't know they made 2 different 1st buses (if that made any sense) lol. If that's true I'm certain they ever did that with any train series....Or did they?.....

[Busjack]

Yeah me too I never even knew it was actually 2 #1000 series buses, I always thought the prototype bus of the 1000 series was the actual bus. Didn't know they made 2 different 1st buses (if that made any sense) lol. If that's true I'm certain they ever did that with any train series....Or did they?.....

As to whether #1000 was a prototype with a subsequent production #1000, that hasn't been established yet, which is why I asked pace2322 to clarify.

In effect, 5001-5012 were prototypes, except Bombardier kept the first two, and the next 10 went back for modification after testing; the 12 are apparently being returned.

But I did mention before the white prototypes, delivery lists indicating that there were several buses #4400, as well as the Q&A in the addendum for this order* saying that a prototype must be delivered.

But, as I have also said, I'm not in the garage nor on the production floor at New Flyer or Nova Bus. But the next time you drive it, you could check the plaque, as pace2322 suggests.

________

*At least we are back on topic

[BusHunter]

As to whether #1000 was a prototype with a subsequent production #1000, that hasn't been established yet, which is why I asked pace2322 to clarify.

In effect, 5001-5012 were prototypes, except Bombardier kept the first two, and the next 10 went back for modification after testing; the 12 are apparently being returned.

But I did mention before the white prototypes, delivery lists indicating that there were several buses #4400, as well as the Q&A in the addendum for this order* saying that a prototype must be delivered.

But, as I have also said, I'm not in the garage nor on the production floor at New Flyer or Nova Bus. But the next time you drive it, you could check the plaque, as pace2322 suggests.

________

*At least we are back on topic

Yeah, but would they paint the bus? The other prototypes were white. I believe I have seen both seat types in service. Now would a prototype run in service? most likely not. I still say it's just one bus.

[See Tea Eh]

There is an unnumbered New Flyer from the 1000-series order (and an unnumbered Nova, as well) in the system somewhere. I've seen them on display at the roadeos in the past, and, every once in a rare while, actually out on the road (not in service).

I don't recall what the interior looked like. I suppose it's possible that the first #1000 eventually became this unnumbered bus, but that's just a guess. I've never bothered with checking VINs or any other details of that sort.

[sw4400]

There is an unnumbered New Flyer from the 1000-series order (and an unnumbered Nova, as well) in the system somewhere. I've seen them on display at the roadeos in the past, and, every once in a rare while, actually out on the road (not in service).

I think there were unnumbered buses of all series types going back at least to the TMC's in 1989-1990. I don't know if anything pre-1989 had a unnumbered bus nor the purpose of those buses except a demo bus for CTA to look at and decide on any additions/subtractions they would like done before the buses hit the streets.

[Busjack]

Thank

you for showing me Addendum two. I only saw Addendum one for 450

only(300 40', 150 60'), not 600. I couldn't even find it or this one on

the transitchicago webpage anymore. I don't have a clue where you found

it, ..

I clicked on the link in the my prior post. Unlike the one for the rail cars, it still worked. Usually, even though CTA takes down the link on the Contact Opportunities page after the bidding closes, the information is still there, and can be Googled.

[sw4400]

Any speculation on the number series for the 2013-2014 NOVA LFS due beginning later this year? Here's a look at all the blocks:

• 1000-Series(Obviously no, as the New Flyer D40LF buses use these numbers)
• 2000-Series(No, as the New Flyer D40LF buses, Budd 2200-Series railcars, Boeing-Vertol 2400-Series railcars and Budd 2600-Series railcars use these numbers)
• 3000-Series(Possible, but the Budd 2600-Series railcars and Morrison-Knudsen 3200-Series railcars use these numbers until 3458, so 3500 is possible. 3600 would not be as options of up to 450 would intermix with the New Flyer DE60LF buses)
• 4000-Series(I think not, as the New Flyer DE60LF and New Flyer DE60LFR buses sew this block up until 4400. I think the CTA is going to hold this number block for Articulated Hybrids and Articulated Clean Diesel buses.
• 5000-Series(No, as this series is pretty much sewn up with Bombardier 5000-Series railcars)
• 6000-Series(This block intrigues me... the 2000-2002 NOVA LFS will be retired as the 2013-2014 NOVA LFS come in. Could 6000-6449 replace 6400-6883? By the time the order gets to 6400, presuming all 450 are ordered, the 6400 block of the old NOVA LFS will most likely be retired.
• 7000-Series(I would say no, as the next series of "L" cars are reportedly going to be using this block)
• 8000-Series(The new NOVA LFS buses could use this number block)
• 9000-Series(Another possibility for the NOVA LFS, but a lot of other blocks would have to be overlooked first.)

Thoughts, anyone? Of course it's all speculation until a CTA insider gets the numbers or a prototype is seen, but where do you think the 2013-2014 NOVA LFS buses will be put in the number system?

[artthouwill]

It is funny that CTA announced Nova was getting the contract for 300 Novas, but there is NOTHING, NOTHING on Nova's website concerning winning a contract with CTA. One would think getting a contract with the nation's 2nd largest transit agency would be a big deal. Instead, there are press releases about Red Deer and Clemson University getting buses. What's the deal here? Is this pending funding approval?

[Busjack]

It is funny that CTA announced Nova was getting the contract for 300 Novas, but there is NOTHING, NOTHING on Nova's website concerning winning a contract with CTA. One would think getting a contract with the nation's 2nd largest transit agency would be a big deal. Instead, there are press releases about Red Deer and Clemson University getting buses. What's the deal here? Is this pending funding approval?

I noted that too.

It is of the opposite of New Flyer claiming it had a CTA contract that it didn't.

Maybe there are some technicalities before the contract is signed and the notice to proceed is given, but it did appear strange.

[Sam92]

Any speculation on the number series for the 2013-2014 NOVA LFS due beginning later this year? Here's a look at all the blocks:

• 1000-Series(Obviously no, as the New Flyer D40LF buses use these numbers)
• 2000-Series(No, as the New Flyer D40LF buses, Budd 2200-Series railcars, Boeing-Vertol 2400-Series railcars and Budd 2600-Series railcars use these numbers)
• 3000-Series(Possible, but the Budd 2600-Series railcars and Morrison-Knudsen 3200-Series railcars use these numbers until 3458, so 3500 is possible. 3600 would not be as options of up to 450 would intermix with the New Flyer DE60LF buses)
• 4000-Series(I think not, as the New Flyer DE60LF and New Flyer DE60LFR buses sew this block up until 4400. I think the CTA is going to hold this number block for Articulated Hybrids and Articulated Clean Diesel buses.
• 5000-Series(No, as this series is pretty much sewn up with Bombardier 5000-Series railcars)
• 6000-Series(This block intrigues me... the 2000-2002 NOVA LFS will be retired as the 2013-2014 NOVA LFS come in. Could 6000-6449 replace 6400-6883? By the time the order gets to 6400, presuming all 450 are ordered, the 6400 block of the old NOVA LFS will most likely be retired.
• 7000-Series(I would say no, as the next series of "L" cars are reportedly going to be using this block)
• 8000-Series(The new NOVA LFS buses could use this number block)
• 9000-Series(Another possibility for the NOVA LFS, but a lot of other blocks would have to be overlooked first.)

Thoughts, anyone? Of course it's all speculation until a CTA insider gets the numbers or a prototype is seen, but where do you think the 2013-2014 NOVA LFS buses will be put in the number system?

I'm with you on the 8000 and 9000 blocks being open.... But also, 2200-2599 are on the way to retirement and if done fast enough, then maybe 2100's could be used for (at least if they only buy 300 and 2200's are completely gone by then. Using 2100-2399)

and if a significant amount of 2400's bites it by then (slimmer chance), then even the extra 150 as an option could fit into that block (2100-2449?)

[jajuan]

I'll just wait till that time comes to find out because CTA has managed to show on several occasions that just as you thought you figured out what a series will be, they choose a different number block. Remembering the 600s? What series is that today? 4000 series. Remember the thought that the next group of artics after that would be 7800s? That's today's 4300s. And speaking of 4300s, the thought was understandably that they would go for two separate number blocks since the buses are two distinct models. But instead CTA decided to group them all as 4300 series presumably because it's one bus order option.

[sw4400]

I'll just wait till that time comes to find out because CTA has managed to show on several occasions that just as you thought you figured out what a series will be, they choose a different number block. Remembering the 600s? What series is that today? 4000 series. Remember the thought that the next group of artics after that would be 7800s? That's today's 4300s. And speaking of 4300s, the thought was understandably that they would go for two separate number blocks since the buses are two distinct models. But instead CTA decided to group them all as 4300 series presumably because it's one bus order option.

Well that was based on the bus powertrains... you have 33 DE60LFR buses and 67 D60LFR buses. One would've thought both powertrain series would've had different number blocks. I did guess right on 4300 being the start of the number block for them, however. But beside that, jajuan... the purpose is just for speculation... I don't know what number block will be used. I'm just wondering what the opinions of the chicagobus.org members are on what number block the NOVA LFS buses might be.

[jajuan]

Well that was based on the bus powertrains... you have 33 DE60LFR buses and 67 D60LFR buses. One would've thought both powertrain series would've had different number blocks. I did guess right on 4300 being the start of the number block for them, however. But beside that, jajuan... the purpose is just for speculation... I don't know what number block will be used. I'm just wondering what the opinions of the chicagobus.org members are on what number block the NOVA LFS buses might be.

I know all that. It's not a slight. It's just a statement that I'll wait and see while others speculate. There's no right and wrong in that either way. We can both agree on that right?

[sw4400]

I know all that. It's not a slight. It's just a statement that I'll wait and see while others speculate. There's no right and wrong in that either way. We can both agree on that right?

Absolutely. There is no right or wrong here. I am curious as to what my other chicagobus.org members think. There is no criticizing selections here. You can post a thought about it if you want.

[geneking7320]

Looking at SW4400's post brought to mind how CTA has "recycled" it's revenue vehicle numbers over the years. In some instances the series have been used on both buses and trains in other instances just on buses**. I've been fortunate to have ridden both series in some instances. I wonder if CTA will go to a five digit vehicle number at some point...

Gene King

* example: Cincinnati L cars were 4xxxx as are the New Flyer D60LFs

** example Marmon Harrington ETBs were 9xxxx as were some of the later fishbowls.

[artthouwill]

Looking at SW4400's post brought to mind how CTA has "recycled" it's revenue vehicle numbers over the years. In some instances the series have been used on both buses and trains in other instances just on buses**. I've been fortunate to have ridden both series in some instances. I wonder if CTA will go to a five digit vehicle number at some point...

Gene King

* example: Cincinnati L cars were 4xxxx as are the New Flyer D60LFs

** example Marmon Harrington ETBs were 9xxxx as were some of the later fishbowls.

Interesting observation. In my experience, fleet numbers with 5 digits tend.to be a reflection of VIN numbers, especially with very large fleets, like Coach USA. I don't see CTA going that direction.

[Chicago13]

I would be curious as to why CTA hasn't used a low number series like 100 or 200 in decades.

I know many of their non-revenue vehicles use low numbers, but that doesn't appear to be a conflict for them as they have non-revenue vehicles numbered in the 500's and duplicate the fleet numers of the Optimas.

[Busjack]

Interesting observation. In my experience, fleet numbers with 5 digits tend.to be a reflection of VIN numbers, especially with very large fleets, like Coach USA. I don't see CTA going that direction.

If anyone can figure out the Montreal system, i.e. 22-201, please let me know.

Apparently, the series is denoted by the first two digits, but those also seem to recycle. Maybe it has something to do with the year [although not orginally], but not the usual 9901 or 0201.

[brownliner]

 

If anyone can figure out the Montreal system, i.e. 22-201, please let me know.

Apparently, the series is denoted by the first two digits, but those also seem to recycle. Maybe it has something to do with the year [although not orginally], but not the usual 9901 or 0201.

 

Looking at the series use, it's pretty clearly the year, expressed as an offset from 1980. (Why? It's Montreal, they don't have to make sense.) If you look at the series, they started over in 1990 or 1991. I don't know if they had any system for the previous use of the series. It doesn't seem to have one.

[See Tea Eh]

If anyone can figure out the Montreal system, i.e. 22-201, please let me know.

Apparently, the series is denoted by the first two digits, but those also seem to recycle. Maybe it has something to do with the year [although not orginally], but not the usual 9901 or 0201.

Montreal's system seems quite straight forward to me.

Each new year gets a new series. It's just that the series doesn't specifically identify the year.

Going by their active fleet, the 1996s were 16, the 1997s were 17, the 1998s were 18. There weren't any new buses in 1999 or 2000, so no 19 or 20. The 2001s were 21, etc.

Their roster of retired buses seems to indicate a similar pattern, except that at some point in the 80s, they went through a renumbering, and then after 1990, they reset their numbering back to 11-XXX for the 1991 series (and have continued with that pattern for the past 20 years).

I'm sure if we check the 1980s forum archives for montrealbus.org, we'd see all sorts of people freaking out over how they changed the pattern.

Now, if you really want a fleet numbering system that makes no sense at all, try WMATA.

[Busjack]

....

Now, if you really want a fleet numbering system that makes no sense at all, try WMATA.

Nothing makes sense at WMATA, including the route numbering system.

There, it seems that every short turn gets its own number, and the attempt to merge all the preexisting bus systems was half done, sort of like if the RTA made South Suburban the ##Ts, and North (Waukegan and North Chicago) the Z##s.

Does appear that the BRTs are in the 6000s, though.