CTA Service Adjustments

[jajuan]

Does that include the entire daily ridership (meaning, all day long, including when the Brown Line is not at capacity) for the entire route (including the segments that retain bus service)?

If so, then, if the passengers on the eliminated segment of the route do decide to take the Brown Line, how much capacity would be needed on the Brown Line?

The other issue with using "total ridership" is that it doesn't reflect peak loadings and on/offs. Two buses can serve 50 passengers, while one never gets above (for example) 15 passengers at any given time, and the other might have 45 passengers on board at once.

The 11 ran a 40-foot bus every 10-12 minutes (maybe less often than that? I can't remember) during rush hour. While it has been a couple years since I rode the 11 during rush hour, I don't recall seeing standees on the Lincoln segment when I did ride it. So, if we assume 40 passengers per bus (to make the math simple; 39 seat bus and we'll be generous and assume every seat is filled, plus one), at a 10-minute headway (again, I think the headway was a bit wider than that; certainly so during off-peak); you're talking 240 passengers per hour.

Spread across an eight-car train, at 10 trains per hour (peak headways are actually tighter than that on Brown; but again, this keeps the math simple), at most, you'd have an average of three extra Brown Line passengers per car assuming every displaced 11 rider switched to the Brown Line. Definitely a far cry from needing to add ten eight-car trains to cover for the change in the 11.

The point is, the whole thing is a joke just looking at those two routes no matter how you try and dice it. Sure guys we know some of you aren't going end to end from Howard to Clinton, but we still want you to squeeze yourselves into one of the busiest portions of the Brown Line arguably while we reduce the number of southbound trains into downtown and schedule no extra trains in the PM rush. Oh yeah and seniors some of you can't move about as easily as a younger person but we still need you to walk about 4 blocks to the nearest Brown Line station. And good luck with doing so in the midst of winter.

[nflyer22]

Looks like #62 isn't completely gone from Kedzie; it has two school trips on it right now...4016 and 4018. The 62X was a little bit before my time, so I've never seen an artic on Archer before.

[jajuan]

Kedzie has full coverage it seems of what's left of the 120s (120-125). 120, 121 and 125 have all buses from Kedzie. 120 and 121 are being done with 1000s and 125 is being run with an approximate even split of artics and 1000s. And looks like eliminating 144 and 145 had the effect of killing use of 40 footers on the north Lake Shore expresses. Kedzie has all artics so far on 134 and 143 while NP has 135, 136, 146, 147 and 148 completely covered with artics so far save for 1414 operating on the 147. Looks like 40 footers run regularly mainly on the south Lake Shore express routes now (6, 26, and 28 downtown rush trips).

[cta5658]

Kedzie has full coverage it seems of what's left of the 120s (120-125). 120, 121 and 125 have all buses from Kedzie. 120 and 121 are being done with 1000s and 125 is being run with an approximate even split of artics and 1000s. And looks like eliminating 144 and 145 had the effect of killing use of 40 footers on the north Lake Shore expresses. Kedzie has all artics so far on 134 and 143 while NP has 135, 136, 146, 147 and 148 completely covered with artics so far save for 1414 operating on the 147. Looks like 40 footers run regularly mainly on the south Lake Shore express routes now (6, 26, and 28 downtown rush trips).

i'm noticing #4303 is operaing on the #X28. i thought the X28 was discontinued

[jajuan]

i'm noticing #4303 is operaing on the #X28. i thought the X28 was discontinued

X28 is eliminated. That must be a lone driver who used the incorrect code for his destination sign. All other downtown Stony Island buses are marked as 28s. When looking at the 121, half of those operators have their buses saying 121 to Navy Pier instead of the whatever is supposed to be correct for the north end of the 'Streeterville' portion of that route.

[Sam92]

i'm noticing #4303 is operaing on the #X28. i thought the X28 was discontinued

The 4300's are in service????

[jajuan]

The 4300's are in service????

Yes. As far as it's known, on the 26 and 28 so far.

[Busjack]

X28 is eliminated. That must be a lone driver who used the incorrect code for his destination sign. All other downtown Stony Island buses are marked as 28s. When looking at the 121, half of those operators have their buses saying 121 to Navy Pier instead of the whatever is supposed to be correct for the north end of the 'Streeterville' portion of that route.

As drivers have previously noted, the Clever Device controls what sign is up, but apparently some signs themselves haven't been reprogrammed.

here's where i found it

But since that was a BusTracker screen, apparently some of the GTFS data hasn't been programmed correctly either. That also wouldn't be the driver's responsibility, but would explain why some of the BusTracker maps have stops or routes on segments that don't have service, as BusTracker reports. Pace indicates that there are several text files in the GTFS system, all of which have to be altered.

[jajuan]

As drivers have previously noted, the Clever Device controls what sign is up, but apparently some signs themselves haven't been reprogrammed.

But since that was a BusTracker screen, apparently some of the GTFS data hasn't been programmed correctly either. That also wouldn't be the driver's responsibility, but would explain why some of the BusTracker maps have stops or routes on segments that don't have service, as BusTracker reports. Pace indicates that there are several text files in the GTFS system, all of which have to be altered.

I know there are some things involving destination signs that aren't a drivers responsibility but Kevin also made a point that the 4300s were running in manual mode yesterday which is where my point of incorrect destination signs comes in and gets backed up some. Granted somewhat there is room for GTFS data not being programmed correctly being part of this but my point still stands that drivers yesterday for both routes in question could have just said 'Hey I got a NB sign in place. That's all I'm worried about right now. These guys should have taken the old info out.'

And looks like I have to amend what I said about 40 foot buses being used on the north express routes was effectively killed by Kedzie and NP. That apparently is true more for the PM rush as this morning's rush has heavy 1000 coverage on the 143, a lot of the 146 Harrison short turn trips, and the 148. Also 134, 135, 136 and 147 have the usual AM rush 40 foot strays they had before. So apparently Kedzie and NP have reasoned that ridership patterns call for heavier 40 foot coverage on the North Lake Shore routes in the AM while the PM calls for heavier artic coverage.

[Busjack]

Granted somewhat there is room for GTFS data not being programmed correctly being part of this but my point still stands that drivers yesterday for both routes in question could have just said 'Hey I got a NB sign in place. That's all I'm worried about right now. These guys should have taken the old info out.'

They must have fixed the GTFS overnight, as Lincoln ends at Brown Line and X28 is gone from BusTracker.

[See Tea Eh]

If buses were running in manual mode, it's possible that they did not receive the latest Clever Devices distribution, which would include data on all the new routes. Therefore, they would not have a trip pattern for 28 to Union Station, since that just went into effect on Monday.

If that's the case, the only option for the driver would be to use the X28 pattern (which would still be in the system, since it wouldn't have been removed without the Clever Devices update).

If the 4300s were sent to 103rd and then parked for a few days (which, apparently, they were), then they would not have been running when the distribution was sent out. That means they wouldn't have been able to get the new Clever Devices distribution. Now that they're running, assuming things are working properly, they should start getting the distributions while they're idling in the garage area (normally, the distribution is wirelessly downloaded while the bus idles near the fuel stand).

Note, this is different from the destination sign distribution. I don't know if they have upgraded to wireless capability on that. As of a few years ago, all buses (including 1000s and 4000s) needed to be physically probed with a flash card to get the new signs updated.

[See Tea Eh]

Also, I don't think the stuff that shows up on bus tracker is GTFS. That's all Clever Devices.

[Busjack]

Also, I don't think the stuff that shows up on bus tracker is GTFS. That's all Clever Devices.

The machine is Clever Devices, but they have to program the data on the routes with something, which from all appearances is GTFS.

In fact, CTA also has a GTFS page. I'm sure Kevin can verify that. :lol:

[jajuan]

Also, I don't think the stuff that shows up on bus tracker is GTFS. That's all Clever Devices.

Ummm you do get there is both software and hardware involved right? GTFS in this case would be the software and Clever Device units the hardware. And what you said about the the new route patterns not being programmed in doesn't hold up in that '28 (not just your one instance of X28) to Union Station' showed up on the BusTracker maps and the split of 11 and 37 and that of 111 and 115 appeared on the map as well. The real issue is that they didn't remove 11 south of Western Brown Line, the old portions of 111 no longer used or the eliminated routes 144, 145 and X28 for example.

[Busjack]

Ummm you do get there is both software and hardware involved right? GTFS in this case would be the software and Clever Device units the hardware. And what you said about the the new route patterns not being programmed in doesn't hold up in that '28 (not just your one instance of X28) to Union Station' showed up on the BusTracker maps and the split of 11 and 37 and that of 111 and 115 appeared on the map as well. The real issue is that they didn't remove 11 south of Western Brown Line, the old portions of 111 no longer used or the eliminated routes 144, 145 and X28 for example.

As I noted above, that's fixed now, although I didn't verify all of them.

I did note that 1 is now Bronzeville/Union Station to 35th/Michigan.

[jajuan]

As I noted above, that's fixed now, although I didn't verify all of them.

I did note that 1 is now Bronzeville/Union Station to 35th/Michigan.

The parts discussed to some degree are fixed. But not all is fixed. It's not completely fixed in the case of the 11 in that it shows no southbound service in place when it's supposed to be an all day everyday route still according to the schedule. Somehow they have some glitch going where the route shows rush hour service, and then only one bus when there should be more on the route, but then nothing appears midday. They had a similar issue going on with that route yesterday beyond the eliminated portions still showing on the map. And the 10 as far as we know still exists, but service hasn't shown up on the map since Sunday. And its still listed in the pulldown list this morning so it couldn't have been cut (yet). Service start was a half hour ago, and at least something should have shown up by now but nothing. And they still need to get out there and pull those 145/148 bus stop signs on Wilson especially west of Clark because I spotted a few folks waiting for buses at those stops while I was on the 22 and obviously there are no buses (express ones anyway) coming through there anymore.

[jajuan]

Oh and whoever predicted the 144 morning interline with the 22 becoming a 148 one was correct. And that would mean some 144 run numbers from the morning got switched over to 148 ones since the 22 is still in the P200 range.

One thing I just noticed with the 111 is that on King Drive it stops only at odd number streets with the exception of 96th Street.

And the final 28 morning trips into downtown that arrive after 9:30 am apparently have to deadhead after their trips since 9:30 am is now the current final SB trip out of downtown for a Stony Island bus a half hour scaling back from what was the case when X28 existed as a separate route from 28.

[ChicagoNova]

The machine is Clever Devices, but they have to program the data on the routes with something, which from all appearances is GTFS.

In fact, CTA also has a GTFS page. I'm sure Kevin can verify that.

The Clever Device on the NF artic #4307 looked different than that on the buses we already have. Whoever else has gotten the chance last night to ride one of those new artics would probably know what I'm talking about.

[See Tea Eh]

Clever Devices has both software and hardware. Clever Devices does not use GTFS for anything. It actually predates GTFS by quite some time.

Clever Devices runs Bus Tracker.

In fact, on the GTFS page that Busjack linked, one can clearly find this brief note that indicates that they are different:

Q: Why is some seemingly-similar information in the GTFS feed slightly different than what's in the Bus Tracker API?

A: These feeds are essentially pathways into data we use for pre-existing systems. For example, routes are "patterns" in the Bus Tracker API and routes are "shapes" in the GTFS feed. While these are very similar each is processed a little differently to serve the needs of each system.

[See Tea Eh]

Ummm you do get there is both software and hardware involved right? GTFS in this case would be the software and Clever Device units the hardware. And what you said about the the new route patterns not being programmed in doesn't hold up in that '28 (not just your one instance of X28) to Union Station' showed up on the BusTracker maps and the split of 11 and 37 and that of 111 and 115 appeared on the map as well. The real issue is that they didn't remove 11 south of Western Brown Line, the old portions of 111 no longer used or the eliminated routes 144, 145 and X28 for example.

What I said was that individual buses may not have received the distribution, and therefore would not have 28 Union Station patterns (and would still have X28 patterns). Most buses clearly did receive the distribution before the service changes on Sunday and Monday, but those that did not would have to go into manual mode and would only have access to the old patterns.

And while I'm not going to claim 100% familiarity with the dynamics of buses communicating with bus tracker, if buses were still running around with the old distribution and communicating with the bustime server, the server would still see them on the old route (X28, for example), and load their patterns and data. Hence X28s showing up in bus tracker yesterday.

No, it's not a GTFS issue. Yes, it is a Clever Devices issue.

[Busjack]

...

In fact, on the GTFS page that Busjack linked, one can clearly find this brief note that indicates that they are different:

So I guess there is more room for error with two data sets hanging out there. There would at least be the inference that GTFS feeds Google Maps (transit), leaving open what feeds the Bus Tracker screens (one would guess the API).

[Kevin]

Ummm you do get there is both software and hardware involved right? GTFS in this case would be the software and Clever Device units the hardware.

GTFS is not software, but rather a data source. It's just a bunch of text files formatted in a standardize fashion.

[jajuan]

Long story short, when you're talking about a big change with eliminating routes or route segments and creating new ones like what we just saw, we're still going to see bugs crop up only one to two days after the big change.

[BusHunter]

The 4300's are in service????

I did mention those going in service for the decrowding on the 16th. I guess they had a minor glitch. That would explain the #4070's going to NP. So in saying that the next question would be why they didn't send the 103rd artic transfers to Chicago as was stated on here?

[Busjack]

I did mention those going in service for the decrowding on the 16th. I guess they had a minor glitch. That would explain the #4070's going to NP. So in saying that the next question would be why they didn't send the 103rd artic transfers to Chicago as was stated on here?

More than likely garage rumor.

The 16th hook would correspond to what jajuan and others said that more artics are probably needed to run the reconfigured north LSD express routes.

Anyway, there probably are 90 of this order to be assigned.