CTA Service Adjustments

[Busjack]

It's easy to make that point but does Pace want to take over the service? I remember someone making a point someone that the reason there is still CTA bus service in both today is because suburban carriers weren't trying to pick up those services when you look at the history of those routes.

Yes, but that was in 1972. Nortran hadn't gotten on its feet yet, although it eventually took over 208 (Evanston-Old Orchard) and 212 (Evanston-Northbrook)

Anyone following the Auditor General's report of 2007 that the lowest cost carrier should assume marginal routes would concur with my so far futile suggestion. I'm surprised that CTA didn't try to negotiate that this year, but it also wanted its hands on the discretionary funds.

[MetroShadow]

The problem here is that the Pace minutes reflect that the ridership numbers CTA gave them didn't justify doing anything to 423, as opposed to adding the additional trip to 270. 90N apparently wasn't totally superfluous, but not worth bringing back.

If they were willing to contribute (read: do more than make a signature), it's a good idea to perhaps bring it up with Pace (and probably at the next board meeting in February).

[jajuan]

Yes, but that was in 1972. Nortran hadn't gotten on its feet yet, although it eventually took over 208 (Evanston-Old Orchard) and 212 (Evanston-Northbrook)

Anyone following the Auditor General's report of 2007 that the lowest cost carrier should assume marginal routes would concur with my so far futile suggestion. I'm surprised that CTA didn't try to negotiate that this year, but it also wanted its hands on the discretionary funds.

Perhaps but I'm still not totally convinced with Pace's own delving into big restructurings recently. The better solution is actually something we agreed is even more futile and impossible which is getting rid of the current setup of 4 different boards that are nothing more than political bastions for local and state politicians to run transit in this region and create just one that has actual transit experts running things. Given current Illinois politics we know that's fantasy.

[jajuan]

And it's not completely true that the 49 and 66 (at least on weekday mornings) are the only shared routes. Chicago does at least one run of the new 120 that comes from a PM rush eastbound trip of the 66 that ends at Chicago/State Red Line station. Kedzie does pretty much the rest of the coverage of 120 and 121. Also looks like the last trips of the 125 come from 121.

[jajuan]

Well the hours of operation for service downtown on the 28 given on December 16 change documentation are deceptive. They listed service in those brochures and the site page for December 16th service changes as being service 'To Union Station weekdays 5:50-9:30 am and 3:15-6:35 pm'. What they didn't tell you is the start time is for first bus to Union Station, while the end time is for last bus FROM Union Station. Actual last buses TO Union Station are 8:55 am and approximately 5 pm respectively.

[mkohut]

90 Harlem is now in the 300's

[BusHunter]

Well the hours of operation for service downtown on the 28 given on December 16 change documentation are deceptive. They listed service in those brochures and the site page for December 16th service changes as being service 'To Union Station weekdays 5:50-9:30 am and 3:15-6:35 pm'. What they didn't tell you is the start time is for first bus to Union Station, while the end time is for last bus FROM Union Station. Actual last buses TO Union Station are 8:55 am and approximately 5 pm respectively.

It's like that all over the system. Like on the #77, (a top 6 bus route in ridership) they start pulling in buses from Harlem around 5PM, but I was surprised to see them pulling in last pick as early as 4:50PM from Harlem. This makes all service from Harlem to Cumberland double the wait time in some instances 15-20 minutes from 5-6PM, which is still the rush hour. I'm surprised they would do that to a top 6 bus route, but it's been that way since the '10 cuts. As far as the #28 route, like I said before, if more routes shared garages like say in that instance 103rd and Kedzie, they could have pullins from both ends at 6PM. That would at least get you another hour of service NB.

[Busjack]

... That would at least get you another hour of service NB.

But, how much demand is there to go from, say, 93rd and Stony Island downtown at 5:50 p.m. (arbitrary time)?

The Schedule page says:

Olive Harvey College north to Union Station

5:40a-8:55a & 3:15p-5:00p weekdays

Union Station south to Olive Harvey College

7:00a-9:30a & 4:05p-6:35p weekdays

The schedule indicates:

Olive Harvey to Union Station: 5:44a to 8:55a at Olive Harvey and 3:16p to 5:03p also at Olive Harvey

Union Station to Olive Harvey: 7:01 to 9:31 at Union Station and 4:07 to 6:36 also at Union Station.

So, other than being a minute or so off, I don't see the discrepancy

Not to mention that the bottom on the schedule page says:

"(Precise hours of service vary depending on where along the route you are, see schedule, use the online trip planner, or call 312-836-7000 for precise travel information.)"

[CURRENTZ_09]

Is the December 2012 Bus & Rail Map & Crowd Reduction Brochures @ Rail Stations yet???

[nflyer22]

Is the December 2012 Bus & Rail Map & Crowd Reduction Brochures @ Rail Stations yet???

I was at CTA Headquarters to renew my Chicago Card several days ago and they still had the Bus & Rail Maps effective September 2012. My guess is that the newest edition will come out in January to include the new fare changes to the passes.

[mkohut]

It's like that all over the system. Like on the #77, (a top 6 bus route in ridership) they start pulling in buses from Harlem around 5PM, but I was surprised to see them pulling in last pick as early as 4:50PM from Harlem. This makes all service from Harlem to Cumberland double the wait time in some instances 15-20 minutes from 5-6PM, which is still the rush hour. I'm surprised they would do that to a top 6 bus route, but it's been that way since the '10 cuts. As far as the #28 route, like I said before, if more routes shared garages like say in that instance 103rd and Kedzie, they could have pullins from both ends at 6PM. That would at least get you another hour of service NB.

This is another example of Claypool lieing when he said he is adding service on Belmont.

[Busjack]

This is another example of Claypool lieing when he said he is adding service on Belmont.

Claypool's lack of veracity aside, it doesn't decrowd if things are not fixed on the heavy portion (i.e. east of Central) because all buses have to go to Cumberland, where there isn't much demand. I think this issue came up in response to you several times before (such as you insisting that all trains go to O'Hare).

[artthouwill]

It's like that all over the system. Like on the #77, (a top 6 bus route in ridership) they start pulling in buses from Harlem around 5PM, but I was surprised to see them pulling in last pick as early as 4:50PM from Harlem. This makes all service from Harlem to Cumberland double the wait time in some instances 15-20 minutes from 5-6PM, which is still the rush hour. I'm surprised they would do that to a top 6 bus route, but it's been that way since the '10 cuts. As far as the #28 route, like I said before, if more routes shared garages like say in that instance 103rd and Kedzie, they could have pullins from both ends at 6PM. That would at least get you another hour of service NB.

I don't know what the ridership on Belmont is between Harlem and Cumberland, but it seems if CTA were able ti run short turns between Kimball and Harlem during rush.periods, that could help some Also if K ran some short trips from Halsted to at least Kimball (maybe Central?) that would help. I guess the only sticking point for CTA would be costs.

If CTA actually does expand its fleet, C could share this route with F.

[mkohut]

Claypool's lack of veracity aside, it doesn't decrowd if things are not fixed on the heavy portion (i.e. east of Central) because all buses have to go to Cumberland, where there isn't much demand. I think this issue came up in response to you several times before (such as you insisting that all trains go to O'Hare).

You have 4 High Schools going west starting at Laramie.

Plus,this is a Route where there is bus bunching.If the bus bunching was fix.You would know how many buses you need to go to Cumberland.

If anything you can short trip buses between Kimball and Harlem is something i agree with you.

[Busjack]

You have 4 High Schools going west starting at Laramie.

Plus,this is a Route where there is bus bunching.If the bus bunching was fix.You would know how many buses you need to go to Cumberland.

If anything you can short trip buses between Kimball and Harlem is something i agree with you.

I bet that the high schools have trippers (and more than likely get out before 5 pm. which was the time BusHunter raised).

As far as anybody getting on, there are the gps readers in the door wells to determine the exact time and location where anyone gets on or off.

[MetroShadow]

You have 4 High Schools going west starting at Laramie.

Plus,this is a Route where there is bus bunching.If the bus bunching was fix.You would know how many buses you need to go to Cumberland.

If anything you can short trip buses between Kimball and Harlem is something i agree with you.

You also have 4 north-south routes from Laramie westward. Coverage looks pretty much taken care of even if Belmont isn't where students would take it (see: 86 short-turns).

Yes, the route does bunch where they would have to turn at Octavia, but at the same time if there is a lack of ridership at the end of the route (say, west of Octavia), there's no purpose (or reason) to run the route to the end.

[BusHunter]

Before the '10 cuts, buses that pullin would typically pullin from Cumberland instead of Harlem. The current way is one of the ways CTA beefs up service for the majority from taking it from the minority. Ridership is pretty good in that stretch, (#77 has good ridership everywhere) they easily can have a 3/4 full bus. One of the things that's kind of weird is those buses pullin on Harlem, which often is backed up with traffic itself, where the alternative is pullin from Cumberland using Forest Preserve Dr is faster with less traffic. So what are they actually gaining?

[mkohut]

One would have to wonder what would Belmont be like

According to Chicago-l.org if the subway ever would have been build

[Busjack]

One would have to wonder what would Belmont be like

According to Chicago-l.org if the subway ever would have been build

About the same as Ashland if the subway ever would have been build, maybe like North Ave if the Humboldt Park L had not been torn down....

[mkohut]

It will be interesting to see if more people get on the trains Jan 1 with the parking meter rate going up.

[Guest ctafan630]

but at the same time if there is a lack of ridership at the end of the route (say, west of Octavia), there's no purpose (or reason) to run the route to the end.

West of Harlem (closer to Cumberland), you have Guerin Prep High school which did have a good number of school kids taking the Belmont bus.

I still feel it is necessary to run buses to Cumberland, but not every bus.

[Busjack]

West of Harlem (closer to Cumberland), you have Guerin Prep High school which did have a good number of school kids taking the Belmont bus.

...

Again, after 5 p.m.?

[Guest ctafan630]

Again, after 5 p.m.?

Yes after 5pm during the week. During the school year, there are clubs and sport teams that have practice until later in the afternoon.

And again, I said there was a need for some buses to go to Cumberland, but not every bus.

[jajuan]

But, how much demand is there to go from, say, 93rd and Stony Island downtown at 5:50 p.m. (arbitrary time)?

The Schedule page says:

Olive Harvey College north to Union Station

5:40a-8:55a & 3:15p-5:00p weekdays

Union Station south to Olive Harvey College

7:00a-9:30a & 4:05p-6:35p weekdays

The schedule indicates:

Olive Harvey to Union Station: 5:44a to 8:55a at Olive Harvey and 3:16p to 5:03p also at Olive Harvey

Union Station to Olive Harvey: 7:01 to 9:31 at Union Station and 4:07 to 6:36 also at Union Station.

So, other than being a minute or so off, I don't see the discrepancy

Not to mention that the bottom on the schedule page says:

"(Precise hours of service vary depending on where along the route you are, see schedule, use the online trip planner, or call 312-836-7000 for precise travel information.)"

The discrepancy is the Dec. 16th webpages and brochures advertised 28 downtown service as 'Service TO Union Station as 5:50-9:30 am and 3:15 to 6:35 pm' which gives the impression that northbound buses end downtown service at 9:30 am and 6:35 pm instead of the scheduled 8:55 am and 5:03 pm. Now do you see the mishap? In their endeavor to streamline the info they worded the info 'Service to' when 'Service to/from' brings the brochures and specific Dec. 16 webpages in line with the schedule and service time webpage.

[Busjack]

The discrepancy is the Dec. 16th webpages and brochures advertised 28 downtown service as 'Service TO Union Station as 5:50-9:30 am and 3:15 to 6:35 pm' which gives the impression that northbound buses end downtown service at 9:30 am and 6:35 pm instead of the scheduled 8:55 am and 5:03 pm. Now do you see the mishap?...

I see that.

The essential problem is that the general literature didn't describe the particulars in the timetables showing trips being truncated or the like. Our members have found numerous instances of that type above. On the other hand, increased service hasn't been evident either, such as the time tables not showing the Brownage trips that one member got from data mining.