Unusual Workings

[jajuan]

Your final sentence may sum it up (especially since others pooh poohed the flooded viaduct theory).

Although the Ridership Report certainly isn't decisive (not sure about peak loading points and the like), it sure indicates that routes such as 3, 4, 8, 9, 22, 49 and 66 would merit it, certainly over 21.

Like you said, it looks like 3 is about half artics. There are a few on 4 and 8 (but this is lunch time).

If that's the only rationale, it is an inefficient one. Either the garage assignments should be changed that K gets 8 and 66, or the buses should be reallocated, to possibly even more at 77.

Maybe artic assignments on the 79 can also just be tweaked a little but keeping it mostly artic operated so that a few more artics for the 8 during busier parts of its service time.

Those artics would definately serve a better purpose being used on the 87 at 77th garage than running empty on Cermak. I'm a bit surprised that the 2 got them before 87th

Actually there are other routes at Kedzie itself that merit some form of artic use more than wasting their efficiency with making the 21 all artic. A few can be used with 40 footers on the 60 for example. There was also the Decrowd policy of having a few assigned with the 40 footers on the 82 during the PM rush into its remaining evening hours that got abandoned during the recent Dan Ryan Red Line shutdown and still hasn't been reinstated because now Kedzie is suddenly wasting their use making the 21 all artic when off peak service on that route is light enough to not justify artic use.

[RJL6000]

After two days of mostly artics, the #21 today is back to all 40-footers.

However, on 77th's routes, the #3 and #79 are either all or mostly artic this morning.

[Busjack]

After two days of mostly artics, the #21 today is back to all 40-footers.

However, on 77th's routes, the #3 and #79 are either all or mostly artic this morning.

If there wasn't a reason to put them there on a weekday, there certainly isn't one to put them there on the weekend.

Unless there is another reason, K may be short of 1000s, but there probably are still better places to use artics.

[ChicagoNova]

It appears 3 King Drive is going all artic except for 1 40 footer (1928).

[jajuan]

If there wasn't a reason to put them there on a weekday, there certainly isn't one to put them there on the weekend.

Unless there is another reason, K may be short of 1000s, but there probably are still better places to use artics.

Hmm like say the 60 if they were going to expand out to another route for artics for the last couple of days. If they were having a shortage of 40 footers, I'm surprised to have seen a few more 1000s on the 125, 134, 151 Belmont trips, and 156. All routes, except 125 which would be all artic in one direction and 40 footers in the opposite direction because of interlining, that are heavily artic run. As for the 3, I would have thought more artics would be in place on a weekday. Unless 77th is going to operate that one similar to how Kedzie operates the 12.

[Sam92]

As for the 3, I would have thought more artics would be in place on a weekday. Unless 77th is going to operate that one similar to how Kedzie operates the 12.

With 79th being converted to all artics all times that doesnt leave a lot of artics left to put on the 3 in the week seeing that they still gotta split the remaining half of 77th's artics between 2,3,4 and the 8 (I've been seeing a few artics on the 8). Add to that the fact that each of those routes require nearly 30 buses and that doesn't leave a lot left in the week since half of 77th's artic fleet is used on 79th alone.

[Sam92]

Hmm like say the 60 if they were going to expand out to another route for artics for the last couple of days. If they were having a shortage of footers, I'm surprised to have seen a few more 1000s on the 125, 134, 151 Belmont trips, and 156. All routes, except 125 which would be all artic in one direction and 40 footers in the opposite direction because of interlining, that are heavily artic run.

Speaking of 151, both K and NP are using more 40ft buses. Seen plenty of Devon/Clark runs using 1000's these last few days in the midday and evening (normally when artics start getting switched in)

[jajuan]

With 79th being converted to all artics all times that doesnt leave a lot of artics left to put on the 3 in the week seeing that they still gotta split the remaining half of 77th's artics between 2,3,4 and the 8 (I've been seeing a few artics on the 8). Add to that the fact that each of those routes require nearly 30 buses and that doesn't leave a lot left in the week since half of 77th's artic fleet is used on 79th alone.

Which brought up my previous thought of whether the 79 needs to be entirely artic or just use enough artics to handle the crush that's been overwhelming the 40 footers before artics were assigned.

Speaking of 151, both K and NP are using more 40ft buses. Seen plenty of Devon/Clark runs using 1000's these last few days in the midday and evening (normally when artics start getting switched in)

On the 151, when it came to K it was also because of the 21 sucking up a lot of what wasn't used on the usual routes K artics are seen on a weekday with getting run all artic on Thursday and Friday. Outside of that I've still been seeing a lot of the K trips on weekdays (most of which are done in the midday on weekdays since the 2010 cuts) run with artics. When it comes to NP, it makes sense to do more of the midday and nonpeak evening trips with 40 foot buses than they have been since K already supplements the busier end of the route during the midday with artics, more folks who are traveling between the portion north of Foster and downtown are opting for the 147 instead, and the full length of the route which NP handles not being as heavy overall in those weekday times. I've seen them doing the more logical move of doing a lot of artic runs out of NP more during rush hour times. And of course both garages run all their 151 weekend runs with artics.

[Busjack]

Which brought up my previous thought of whether the 79 needs to be entirely artic or just use enough artics to handle the crush that's been overwhelming the 40 footers before artics were assigned.

...

The question is whether that would result in inordinate bus bunching, like it did around 2006, because the crowd is trying to load into the 40 footer.

This time, it seems like 40 foot buses are being used only on Bogan school trips, accourding to BusTracker.

[jajuan]

The question is whether that would result in inordinate bus bunching, like it did around 2006, because the crowd is trying to load into the 40 footer.

This time, it seems like 40 foot buses are being used only on Bogan school trips, accourding to BusTracker.

Which is why I mentioned that the 79 still be kept mostly artic run but possibly tweaked enough to spare a few more artics for a route like 3 or 8 when I first posed the thought. 103rd seems to do similar with the 6 on weekdays without creating too big a bunching issue beyond what might be expected due to traffic so that it manages to have a few artics ready for 26 and 28 in rush hour to help out the 40 foot buses that operate both of those.

[jajuan]

Since this is the first time I spotted this type of sighting with this route I'll place it here. 4332 happens to be on the 35 going westbound to 35th/Archer Orange Line station. BusTracker indicates it started at 35th/Giles so that's apparently a school trip. Is this particular run interlined with anything after finishing up on 35th Street as far as anyone knows?

[Sam92]

Since this is the first time I spotted this type of sighting with this route I'll place it here. 4332 happens to be on the 35 going westbound to 35th/Archer Orange Line station. BusTracker indicates it started at 35th/Giles so that's apparently a school trip. Is this particular run interlined with anything after finishing up on 35th Street as far as anyone knows?

Wow that's the run I used to take back in high school 3 years back! That run always needed an artic but do to its garages never had a chance to with Archer not having any and 77th losing theirs to 103rd right before taking up the #35. Looks like 35th's going see artics for school.service and Sox games with K now handling that route and having extra artics. Maybe those trips become the #62 and run from Kelly?

[jajuan]

Wow that's the run I used to take back in high school 3 years back! That run always needed an artic but do to its garages never had a chance to with Archer not having any and 77th losing theirs to 103rd right before taking up the #35. Looks like 35th's going see artics for school.service and Sox games with K now handling that route and having extra artics. Maybe those trips become the #62 and run from Kelly?

How long do the Kelly school trips on the 62 last? Which reminds me I forgot to mention that it was passing Sox Park a little bit after 3:30 this afternoon. If the Kelly runs last going into the 4 PM hour your hypothesis would have some realm of possibility.

Edited November 8, 2013 by jajuan

[Sam92]

How long do the Kelly school trips on the 62 last? Which reminds me I forgot to mention that it was passing Sox Park a little bit after 3"30 this afternoon. If the Kelly runs last going into the 4 PM hour your hypothesis would have some realm of possibility.

Well if all of K's runs on the 62 (at least the artic runs) are for school trips then possibly, cause I seen K's runs reaching downtown as late as 4:40 or 5-ish. And I do see artics staging on Archer in the afternoon but don't know if any of K's runs do a full length run of the route or just school trips...

[ChicagoNova]

I got lucky today to ride an artic (4302) on 71 71st/South Shore.

[nflyer22]

Well if all of K's runs on the 62 (at least the artic runs) are for school trips then possibly, cause I seen K's runs reaching downtown as late as 4:40 or 5-ish. And I do see artics staging on Archer in the afternoon but don't know if any of K's runs do a full length run of the route or just school trips...

The Kedzie school runs are all school trips, specifically for Kennedy HS (56th/Narragansett), Curie HS (Archer/Pulaski), and Kelly HS (Archer/California). They originate at those intersections and formerly ended at Archer/Clark, where they all dehead downtown to serve any of the various downtown bus routes that Kedzie serve, depending on the run. In the most recent pick, some of these school trips have been extended to serve the entire 62 route up to State/Kinzie before working other routes. They do not turn back southbound as a 62.

[BusHunter]

I got lucky today to ride an artic (4302) on 71 71st/South Shore.

Never heard of an artic there, but they do seem to have moderate ridership. They probably just pulled one out. That's the benefits of an having an artic garage. Back in the day they used to run artics I believe on the #30, but maybe those were school runs I don't know. Maybe for Chicago Vocational it's near there.

[artthouwill]

I got lucky today to ride an artic (4302) on 71 71st/South Shore.

My question would be was it a short turn 71, terminating at 73rd/Exchange or was it a full routing to 112th/Torrence? The ridership between the Red Line and 73rd is pretty strong, but not so much south of there, which is why only every other trip continues to 112th.

[ChicagoNova]

My question would be was it a short turn 71, terminating at 73rd/Exchange or was it a full routing to 112th/Torrence? The ridership between the Red Line and 73rd is pretty strong, but not so much south of there, which is why only every other trip continues to 112th.

It was actually a short turn at 73rd/Exchange. I live close to that intersection.

[Sam92]

Never heard of an artic there, but they do seem to have moderate ridership. They probably just pulled one out. That's the benefits of an having an artic garage. Back in the day they used to run artics I believe on the #30, but maybe those were school runs I don't know. Maybe for Chicago Vocational it's near there.

I've seen a 4000 on that route back when 77th gave its artics to 103rd and another time back when the 4300's first came in but before 103rd moved their unwrapped 4000's to NP. Select artic runs on busier routes outside of Lake Shore Express/Downtown aren't as uncommon as you think when 103rd gets as many artics as it has. Now that the Red Line is open I'm seeing artics pop up on Dan Ryan routes again. 95E run 1311 is artic again on and off (this run interlines with route 108, this run was always artic run up till construction). 106/34/119 interlines are sometimes artic run again for busier times whenever free. ( Don't be surprised if you see even a random 4300 on the #100, its that random at times) If that run is interlined with anything busy you're probably gonna see it again pretty often.

[Sam92]

Never heard of an artic there, but they do seem to have moderate ridership. They probably just pulled one out. That's the benefits of an having an artic garage. Back in the day they used to run artics I believe on the #30, but maybe those were school runs I don't know. Maybe for Chicago Vocational it's near there.

And on the subject of route #30, I don't think it was close enough to CVCA for artics to be used for.school runs. Maybe 30 had more moderate ridership when it was the express? (if you're mentioning that time... I'm too young to say for sure I just know at one time it was an express /limited stop route.

[Busjack]

And on the subject of route #30, I don't think it was close enough to CVCA for artics to be used for.school runs. Maybe 30 had more moderate ridership when it was the express? (if you're mentioning that time... I'm too young to say for sure I just know at one time it was an express /limited stop route.

Very old maps show 25/25X (e.g. this 1954 one on chicago-l.org; becme 30/30X in the 1957 one, only 30 by 1965). While in the early 70s, it had the green "South Chicago Express" bus stop sign, it really wasn't express then.

The other question may have been whether it had more ridership when it connected with the L at 63/King Dr. as opposed to 69/Dan Ryan from 1969 on. Also, express alternatives via LSD weren't as available until the 2003 restructuring.

From CSL books, it appears that the express was a descendant of the 5 Cottage Grove-South Chicago streetcar route (to downtown), while any local was a descendant of the Hammond-Whiting street car routes (the Indiana end being dead about 1940, but terminating at 63rd before then), but obviously the two became redundant.

[busfan2847]

Very old maps show 25/25X (e.g. this 1954 one on chicago-l.org; becme 30/30X in the 1957 one, only 30 by 1965). While in the early 70s, it had the green "South Chicago Express" bus stop sign, it really wasn't express then.

The other question may have been whether it had more ridership when it connected with the L at 63/King Dr. as opposed to 69/Dan Ryan from 1969 on. Also, express alternatives via LSD weren't as available until the 2003 restructuring.

From CSL books, it appears that the express was a descendant of the 5 Cottage Grove-South Chicago streetcar route (to downtown), while any local was a descendant of the Hammond-Whiting street car routes (the Indiana end being dead about 1940, but terminating at 63rd before then), but obviously the two became redundant.

I have the following history for this route.

The Hegewisch route was converted to buses From 10/21/46, at the time the route was numbered 25 and running from South Chicago via 91^st, Mackinaw, Ewing, 113^th, O, 134^th, Brandonto Brainard. Rerouted via 109^th between Ewing and O from 4/14/47. When the South Chicago-Ewing service was converted to buses from 6/30/47, a single through route 25 was formed, renumbered 30 in 1952, running from 63^rd via South park, South Chicago, 91^st then over the Hagewisch routing. 25X express bus began 12/4/49 from 63^rd to 108^th and Ewing, RH only, replacing South Chicago branch of the Cottage Grove line. Through Route 5 continued to also operate with streetcars until its discontinuance from 12/4/49.

30X route extended via Ewing, 113^th, O and 116^th to Republic Steel from 7/6/59.

From 3/25/62 south loop of 30 revised to run northbound via Baltimore, 132^nd, Exchange, 130^th, Baltimore, 134^th.

From 9/8/63 all services ran express between 63^rd and 92^nd and renamed 30 South Chicago Express, this service replaced 30X, Owl service north terminal cut back from South Chicago/71^st to 92^nd/Commercial. More stops were added on South Chicago in the express section over the years until service renamed 30 South Chicago from 3/22/76.

From 9/28/69 with opening of Dan Ryan rapid transit line, north terminal changed to present terminal at 69th/Dan Ryan. Owl service withdrawn 12/6/70. Rerouted 3/30/80 to connect with Metra Electric at 91^st. Evening withdrawn 9/13/81 south of 116^th. Evening reinstated as a shuttle from Ewing/106^th to Hegeswich 3/15/82 and as through service 4/25/82.

Sunday service withdrawn north of 91^st/Commercial 2/2/92.

Permanently rerouted via 92^nd St to serve new Metra 93^rd St station from 6/4/2001. Revised via Buffalo, 91^st and Mackinaw to Ewing from 12/11/2002 and on Houston instead of Buffalo from 91^st & 92^nd Sts 6/20/2004.

[jajuan]

I've seen a 4000 on that route back when 77th gave its artics to 103rd and another time back when the 4300's first came in but before 103rd moved their unwrapped 4000's to NP. Select artic runs on busier routes outside of Lake Shore Express/Downtown aren't as uncommon as you think when 103rd gets as many artics as it has. Now that the Red Line is open I'm seeing artics pop up on Dan Ryan routes again. 95E run 1311 is artic again on and off (this run interlines with route 108, this run was always artic run up till construction). 106/34/119 interlines are sometimes artic run again for busier times whenever free. ( Don't be surprised if you see even a random 4300 on the #100, its that random at times) If that run is interlined with anything busy you're probably gonna see it again pretty often.

Well given that so many of the Dan Ryan routes, including the 29, are interlined it's not too much of a surprise about what you report Sam. I've even seen 4300s here and there on local (non-downtown) trips of the 28. Plus I think the fact that so many of the 95th/Red Line terminating routes at 103rd having school trips runs may also contribute to those routes seeing artics in addition to rush hour contributing to it. kind of similar to how NP and Kedzie use artics on school trip runs of its own routes and those of some nearby routes from non-artic garages.

[BUSANGEL#1]

Never heard of an artic there, but they do seem to have moderate ridership. They probably just pulled one out. That's the benefits of an having an artic garage. Back in the day they used to run artics I believe on the #30, but maybe those were school runs I don't know. Maybe for Chicago Vocational it's near there.

Artics on the 30 mostly served school trips coming from Washington High

School on 114th/Avenue O, and Bowen on 89th/Colfax/South Chicago. When

103rd had Nabis they put a lot more on #30 school trips, probably as a

punishment to those bad students .