Busjack Posted February 8, 2016 Report Share Posted February 8, 2016 7 hours ago, briman94 said: It would require a complete redesign of the propulsion package on the older cars in order to get them to work with the 5000s, and it would be very expensive. A simple inverter/converter wouldn't be enough. Besides that, the inverter is in the controller of the AC cars. Each car picks up DC from the third rail. The only jumpers are between the married pairs. Thus, to rebuild a DC car as an AC car, not only would the motors have to be swapped for each car, the whole controller system would have to be, too. The only way one could run a mixed train is if something like that was done with the flatcars (i.e. a train line signal could activate the air compressor on the flat car to stop them). Maybe the real issue is that because the old new cars don't have the same acceleration characteristics, and the old cars don't have regenerative braking, they would jackknife the train. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MTRSP1900-CTA3200 Posted February 8, 2016 Report Share Posted February 8, 2016 10 hours ago, briman94 said: WMATA had digital controls on their DC fleet, which meant they were able to have linear control over motor power and could make it work with AC. The CTA has mechanically controlled DC (with a physical cam linkage between cars, not electrical if I remember correctly) which has only 3-4 stages of power. It'd be essentially impossible to make them work with the 5000s without replacing 80% of the propulsion system, which we all know they're not doing. I know, I was talking about when they gave the 1000 series AC motors. They originally had DC motors. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Busjack Posted February 8, 2016 Report Share Posted February 8, 2016 31 minutes ago, MTRSP1900-CTA3200 said: I know, I was talking about when they gave the 1000 series AC motors. They originally had DC motors. The South Shore also converted DC cars to AC, but that was part of a major rebuild. I don't know if they tried to run anything mixed. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MTRSP1900-CTA3200 Posted February 9, 2016 Report Share Posted February 9, 2016 10 hours ago, Busjack said: The South Shore also converted DC cars to AC, but that was part of a major rebuild. I don't know if they tried to run anything mixed. Not sure why I forgot about that. That's very important. Maybe they're the ones who tried it and said it can't be done. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
andrethebusman Posted February 9, 2016 Report Share Posted February 9, 2016 Railroads don't seem to have a problem mixing AC with DC locomotives. DC has to be the lead, though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
briman94 Posted February 9, 2016 Report Share Posted February 9, 2016 15 minutes ago, andrethebusman said: Railroads don't seem to have a problem mixing AC with DC locomotives. DC has to be the lead, though. Locomotives are different from EMUs though. They have a standard protocol that is used for controlling the power each locomotive gives (so different brands/types can be mixed in a freight train) unlike EMUs (at least on closed systems like WMATA, CTA, etc) which are proprietary and usually only work with ones of the same type or a type they were designed to work with. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MTRSP1900-CTA3200 Posted February 11, 2016 Report Share Posted February 11, 2016 On February 9, 2016 at 3:34 PM, briman94 said: ...unlike EMUs (at least on closed systems like WMATA, CTA, etc) which are proprietary and usually only work with ones of the same type or a type they were designed to work with. I believe that was an issue with New York City's R142s and R142As. I've never heard of a set from each type making up a train. They were both AC, but the software prevents them from running together. Possibly the same with the R143s and R160s, although all of the R160 subfleets are compatible (And the R160A sounds wicked with an R160B Siemens set with it). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
garmon757 Posted February 12, 2016 Report Share Posted February 12, 2016 Keep in mind BusHunter and Briman94 that #3285-86 are yet to be fully completed rehabbed cars because there are no LED run number boxes installed yet. I'm currently riding #3286 as I type this. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
garmon757 Posted February 12, 2016 Report Share Posted February 12, 2016 #3263-64 are rehabbed without the LED run number boxes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MTRSP1900-CTA3200 Posted February 13, 2016 Report Share Posted February 13, 2016 On February 4, 2016 at 1:01 AM, sw4400 said: Looking at the rehab rosters, looks like I found a new pair with a full rehab(LED Displays and LED Interior Lighting).... #3285-3286. First one I recall being in.... it was bright!!! That's what I'm talking about! Looking good! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BusHunter Posted February 13, 2016 Report Share Posted February 13, 2016 6 hours ago, garmon757 said: #3263-64 are rehabbed without the LED run number boxes. I was trying to figure out how many they are doing a month. It seems like 10 cars a month. At that rate if they stick to putting rehabbed cars on the Brown line, it will take them until just about a year from now, like maybe April 2017 to get rehabbed cars on the Orange line. By then also the Orange line should be deep into retiring it's #2600's. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sw4400 Posted February 13, 2016 Author Report Share Posted February 13, 2016 On 2/11/2016 at 8:55 PM, garmon757 said: Keep in mind BusHunter and Briman94 that #3285-86 are yet to be fully completed rehabbed cars because there are no LED run number boxes installed yet. I'm currently riding #3286 as I type this. Ok, so 3285-3286 are 99% fully rehabbed.... do I still get my "A" grade for my report? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
garmon757 Posted February 13, 2016 Report Share Posted February 13, 2016 10 hours ago, BusHunter said: I was trying to figure out how many they are doing a month. It seems like 10 cars a month. At that rate if they stick to putting rehabbed cars on the Brown line, it will take them until just about a year from now, like maybe April 2017 to get rehabbed cars on the Orange line. By then also the Orange line should be deep into retiring it's #2600's. It seems like it but we can't jump the gun yet. Orange Line only have two cars (#3207-08) with LEDs. I don't understand why the Brown Line is hogging every rehabbed and sub-rehabbed cars in the 3200s though. Until the Orange Line get them back, good luck seeing any 2600s disappearing off that line. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RJL6000 Posted February 13, 2016 Report Share Posted February 13, 2016 35 minutes ago, garmon757 said: Orange Line only have two cars (#3207-08) with LEDs. Actually, for the past week or so #3249–50 made it back to the Orange Line. So that makes at least four Orange Line cars with LED signs. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
garmon757 Posted February 13, 2016 Report Share Posted February 13, 2016 2 hours ago, RJL6000 said: Actually, for the past week or so #3249–50 made it back to the Orange Line. So that makes at least four Orange Line cars with LED signs. Thanks for the heads up! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BusHunter Posted February 13, 2016 Report Share Posted February 13, 2016 I checked on #3225-26 that Briman had on his list as having rehabbed or LED only cars. I can say for sure that it doesn't have anything done to it, but man that car is a *itch to find. I've only saw it once in months!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
briman94 Posted February 15, 2016 Report Share Posted February 15, 2016 On 2/11/2016 at 6:48 PM, MTRSP1900-CTA3200 said: I believe that was an issue with New York City's R142s and R142As. I've never heard of a set from each type making up a train. They were both AC, but the software prevents them from running together. Possibly the same with the R143s and R160s, although all of the R160 subfleets are compatible (And the R160A sounds wicked with an R160B Siemens set with it). Yep, from what I read, the R142 and R142a types could technically train together but the TOTS display would not be able to display any information on the cars of the other type (and maybe not even any cars past those) because of software licensing issues. Kinda makes you wonder if these companies take software licensing a bit too far where it actually becomes harmful to the greater good... EDIT: And yes, Siemens / Alstom cars running together sound TERRIBLE, LOL. They sound like an out-of-tune string quartet played by monkeys. (Link here) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MTRSP1900-CTA3200 Posted February 16, 2016 Report Share Posted February 16, 2016 1 hour ago, briman94 said: ...because of software licensing issues. Kinda makes you wonder if these companies take software licensing a bit too far where it actually becomes harmful to the greater good... There are plenty of examples of that (even if they don't involve railways), I just can't name any at the moment. 1 hour ago, briman94 said: ...EDIT: And yes, Siemens / Alstom cars running together sound TERRIBLE, LOL. They sound like an out-of-tune string quartet played by monkeys. (Link here) I kind of like it, but only at first though. It sounds like a unique sound for the first few seconds, and then you're like "OK, I've had enough." And then you try to tune out one set and listen to the other exclusively. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joechicago Posted February 25, 2016 Report Share Posted February 25, 2016 I got some good pictures of fully rehabbed 3313. It was so much cleaner looking than its neighbor. Looks like a 5000 almost. Also, another nice & easy way to tell if a 3200 has been fully done is to look at the equipment under the train. Look at the two wheel-sets to compare. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Busjack Posted February 25, 2016 Report Share Posted February 25, 2016 1 hour ago, joechicago said: Also, another nice & easy way to tell if a 3200 has been fully done is to look at the equipment under the train. Look at the two wheel-sets to compare. Can you describe any particular distinguishing characteristics? My eyes aren't that good. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joechicago Posted February 25, 2016 Report Share Posted February 25, 2016 16 minutes ago, Busjack said: Can you describe any particular distinguishing characteristics? My eyes aren't that good. Does this help? I used the full resolution pic & cropped/zoomed in on the wheels. You can see the rehabbed (left) & un-rehabbed (right) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Busjack Posted February 25, 2016 Report Share Posted February 25, 2016 48 minutes ago, joechicago said: Does this help? I was hoping for an explanation in words, but that's up to you. The only thing I discern is that one trolley beam is shinier. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MTRSP1900-CTA3200 Posted February 25, 2016 Report Share Posted February 25, 2016 4 hours ago, Busjack said: I was hoping for an explanation in words, but that's up to you. The only thing I discern is that one trolley beam is shinier. In the full picture, the under-car components look a little different too. Specifically the little white things that are lined up in a grid that are underneath the window to the right of the destination sign window. I'm still not 100% if those were modified or replaced, but they look different to me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Busjack Posted February 26, 2016 Report Share Posted February 26, 2016 4 hours ago, MTRSP1900-CTA3200 said: In the full picture, the under-car components look a little different too. Specifically the little white things that are lined up in a grid that are underneath the window to the right of the destination sign window. I'm still not 100% if those were modified or replaced, but they look different to me. That would be the resister bank, and probably was replaced. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BusHunter Posted February 26, 2016 Report Share Posted February 26, 2016 I was noticing this evening in Kimball yard, they seem to have a high number of rehabbed #3200's sitting in the yard. On one track I spotted #3271-72, #3267-68, and another one, each uncoupled (3 two car sets on one track) Then I noticed #3375-76 is finally gone, maybe it was inside Kimball shop and #3213-14 was sitting outside the shop where #3375-76 had been sitting for a good week. It had a blue light defect. I've been noticing they've been keeping in rehabbed cars on that one center track in the yard all week. I don't know if the cars have switched out but I haven't seen those cars all week in service either and #3267-68 I've never seen in service since it was rehabbed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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