Route 28 Brazier Drive

[dp1]

Mayor Emmanuel wants to change Stony Island Avenue into a name honoring the late pastor Authur Brazier. I hear he was instrumental in keeping the CTA from running the renovated Green Line to 63rd and Stony Island. How do you all feel about the proposed street name change?

[jajuan]

Mayor Emmanuel wants to change Stony Island Avenue into a name honoring the late pastor Authur Brazier. I hear he was instrumental in keeping the CTA from running the renovated Green Line to 63rd and Stony Island. How do you all feel about the proposed street name change?

It'll in all likelihood be a name change on one of those brown honorary street name signs, meaning the street will still be Stony Island and the CTA route will still be 28 Stony Island.

[trainman8119]

It'll in all likelihood be a name change on one of those brown honorary street name signs, meaning the street will still be Stony Island and the CTA route will still be 28 Stony Island.

I believe there is one of the honorary street sections already for the Pastor (seen it someplace). It is possible the good Mayor is already strapping for future votes.

[jajuan]

I believe there is one of the honorary street sections already for the Pastor (seen it someplace). It is possible the good Mayor is already strapping for future votes.

I wouldn't be surprised. The flap over CTA initially dropping the ball on its agreement to serve the new Walmart in Pullman Park sure didn't stop him from angling for some political advantage among that area of south side voters.

[Busjack]

A source, which says that the proposal goes beyond an honorary street name.*

I suppose that going back to Crawford Avenue becoming Pulaski, there will be a few who complain that their business stationery will have to be changed, but in this case, I bet very few.

But for that matter, any Chicago streets or transportation book has to explain what "Stony Island" was. May as well name Blue Island Ave. for someone else, too, since it doesn't go there.

______

*I guess part of "Reverend Bishop Brazier Avenue" will still be "Honorary Herb Kent (the Cool Gent) Way."

... I hear he was instrumental in keeping the CTA from running the renovated Green Line to 63rd and Stony Island.,,,

Actually only to in front of his church on Dorchester. The overpass over the IC was torn down earlier because it was too corroded. You can look up the Dorchester station on chicago-l.org.

This led me to say that I suppose they can't name the nonexistent (because of him) Dorchester L station for him.

[trainman8119]

Honorary street is 6300-6600 S. Dorchester

That would be outside the church and would explain why I saw the sign (probably 100 times by now).

[artthouwill]

Mayor Emmanuel wants to change Stony Island Avenue into a name honoring the late pastor Authur Brazier. I hear he was instrumental in keeping the CTA from running the renovated Green Line to 63rd and Stony Island. How do you all feel about the proposed street name change?

Absolutely not!!!

[MetroShadow]

Mayor Emmanuel wants to change Stony Island Avenue into a name honoring the late pastor Authur Brazier. I hear he was instrumental in keeping the CTA from running the renovated Green Line to 63rd and Stony Island. How do you all feel about the proposed street name change?

A friend of mine, who lives on Stony, already has a long address to write out. Apparently since this was brought up, he calls it "Balderdash"

[cta5658]

it'll forever be stony island to me no matter what the name is

[jajuan]

I'll state my point more clearly that this is all nothing more than another one of Emanuel's 'Let's dangle a meaningless (in terms of what does it really do to make that community better) gesture in front of a specific group that sounds good on the surface and hope it brings me votes from that group'. And this is one black man who doesn't fall for his politically self serving gestures. I don't live on the south side as his target black audience for this gesture does but hopefully those living on the south side can see this for what it is. How about we get more policy proposals for this city that have constructive results over all these empty gestures that look good for the news cameras and some political strategist might say will get votes from that group. Granted everything an elected official does has some level political preservation motive to it, but this guy takes it to the Nth degree. You get no sense of pushing a policy because he feels it's honestly the right thing to do for the city.

[Busjack]

it'll forever be stony island to me no matter what the name is

How about Grand Boulevard, a/k/a South Park Boulevard or Crawford Ave. between Devon and about 115th? Is it really 43rd St. or Pope John Paul St. in Brighton Park?

...How about we get more policy proposals for this city that have constructive results over all these empty gestures that look good for the news cameras and some political strategist might say will get votes from that group. ...

Back to the OT and art's comment that maybe Whole Paycheck Market shows that Englewood is gentrifying. Emanuel didn't portray it as that but that they were going to help the neighborhood, sort of like they helped Detroit. Unless a bunch of professors from Channel 20.1 at Kennedy King College are shopping there.... Maybe The Fresh Market (which makes Whole Foods more economical) is going to move in next.

[Sam92]

I'll state my point more clearly that this is all nothing more than another one of Emanuel's 'Let's dangle a meaningless (in terms of what does it really do to make that community better) gesture in front of a specific group that sounds good on the surface and hope it brings me votes from that group'. And this is one black man who doesn't fall for his politically self serving gestures. I don't live on the south side as his target black audience for this gesture does but hopefully those living on the south side can see this for what it is. How about we get more policy proposals for this city that have constructive results over all these empty gestures that look good for the news cameras and some political strategist might say will get votes from that group. Granted everything an elected official does has some level political preservation motive to it, but this guy takes it to the Nth degree. You get no sense of pushing a policy because he feels it's honestly the right thing to do for the city.

as a black south sider (actually only.a.few blocks away from Stony ) I saw what he was doing the moment he started pushing for the Red Line extention. He said that just to get us in his side but didn't have the money for it nor an identified source. (Sounds like Claypool puling the.idea out of his @$$.that there would be no hikes/cuts till 2015 because supposedly the union would go along with his crackpot schemes. Didnt work so now he ended up doing these under the table cuts and hikes.)

[Busjack]

...I saw what he was doing the moment he started pushing for the Red Line extention. He said that just to get us in his side but didn't have the money for it nor an identified source. (Sounds like Claypool puling the.idea out of his @$$.that there would be no hikes/cuts till 2015 because supposedly the union would go along with his crackpot schemes. Didnt work so now he ended up doing these under the table cuts and hikes.)

On the transit side, that pap has been fed for the past 40 years. There was, for instance, the Daley announcement that a big chunk of vacant land at 115th and Michigan was being set aside for a transit center. Didn't that used to be the site of a Jewel Turnstyle?

The only thing new is the Emanuel statement that somehow it could be done by a public private partnership. Sort of like Daley's Airport Express, according to the consultant's report.

On the political side, there is still the problem that when the Sun-Times said that Mosely-Braun, Rev. Meeks, and Danny Davis were defeating each other by each pulling 9%, the other two got out and Mosely-Braun still got 9%. If the community could have coalesced behind someone, they could have at least forced a runoff, but Emanuel took advantage of the vacuum. Apparently the community couldn't get itself politically together since Harold Washington, and then it took the old system when 34% won the primary and went on to a partisan election.

[jajuan]

How about Grand Boulevard, a/k/a South Park Boulevard or Crawford Ave. between Devon and about 115th? Is it really 43rd St. or Pope John Paul St. in Brighton Park?

Back to the OT and art's comment that maybe Whole Paycheck Market shows that Englewood is gentrifying. Emanuel didn't portray it as that but that they were going to help the neighborhood, sort of like they helped Detroit. Unless a bunch of professors from Channel 20.1 at Kennedy King College are shopping there.... Maybe The Fresh Market (which makes Whole Foods more economical) is going to move in next.

He may not have explicitly portrayed all his proposals for the betterment of the current residents of a given community, but lets be real here. He doesn't come out and fight the immediate public residing in those areas taking that to be the implication and does often manipulate the local media into presenting that implication. But trust me when I say I did communicate a similar conclusion about gentrification to my mom, brother and one of my sisters in regards to current development going on near Western and Madison as we passed through that area on the homebound trip back to the north side from a recent weekend visit to Brookfield Zoo.

On the transit side, that pap has been fed for the past 40 years. There was, for instance, the Daley announcement that a big chunk of vacant land at 115th and Michigan was being set aside for a transit center. Didn't that used to be the site of a Jewel Turnstyle?

The only thing new is the Emanuel statement that somehow it could be done by a public private partnership. Sort of like Daley's Airport Express.

On the political side, there is still the problem that when the Sun-Times said that Mosely-Braun, Rev. Meeks, and Danny Davis were defeating each other by each pulling 9%, the other two got out and Mosely-Braun still got 9%. If the community could have coalesced behind someone, they could have at least forced a runoff, but Emanuel took advantage of the vacuum. Apparently the community couldn't get itself politically together since Harold Washington, and then it took the old system when 34% won the primary and went on to a partisan election.

I'll agree with you here that there has been no black Chicago politician since Mayor Washington who's been successful at bridging the gap between black voters on the west and south sides especially with those dispersed in other areas of the city to build up enough of a strong bloc among black voters to add to a winning coalition of Chicago voters as a whole.

[Busjack]

...But trust me when I say I did communicate a similar conclusion about gentrification to my mom, brother and one of my sisters in regards to current development going on near Western and Madison as we passed through that area on the homebound trip back to the north side from a recent weekend visit to Brookfield Zoo.....

The difference is that the area around Madison and Western gentrified to a certain extent first, and then the neighbors asked for a Pete's Fresh Market, which is more in their price range. Also, it was reported that the local extortionists were trying to shut down that construction site,which shows the difficulty in doing business, even in a gentrifying area of the former hood.

On the other hand, someone would have to show me that Kennedy-King College has done anything to spur development of the rest of the Halsted-63 area, including the vacant part over which Alderman Troutman was convicted for taking bribes from purported developers, even though IIRC the land was not in the 20th Ward. Now, if it were, for instance, because some grocer other than Aldi was moving into Woodlawn because the U of C or Brazier has had some gentrifying influence there, that would be different.

And, guess again, I finally got back to the topic. Now will The Fresh Market build at the corner of 66th and Brazier? [Again, rhetorical question.]

[geneking7320]

Mayor Emmanuel wants to change Stony Island Avenue into a name honoring the late pastor Authur Brazier. I hear he was instrumental in keeping the CTA from running the renovated Green Line to 63rd and Stony Island. How do you all feel about the proposed street name change?

My pre-K days were in Woodlawn, and I grew up in Chatham. I left Chicago in 1978 (job transferred me to Peoria) and returned in 1979 [moved to Rogers Park]. I mention this because I have history with the old North-South Rapid Transit as well as the present Red Line. As a transit fan and advocate there is no way I would support this. I still associate Bishop Arthur Brazier with the truncation of the Jackson Park rapid transit. Yes the city should have found a way to replace the bridge over the IC but I still feel the L should not have been cut back to Cottage Grove.

[jajuan]

The difference is that the area around Madison and Western gentrified to a certain extent first, and then the neighbors asked for a Pete's Fresh Market, which is more in their price range. Also, it was reported that the local extortionists were trying to shut down that construction site,which shows the difficulty in doing business, even in a gentrifying area of the former hood.

On the other hand, someone would have to show me that Kennedy-King College has done anything to spur development of the rest of the Halsted-63 area, including the vacant part over which Alderman Troutman was convicted for taking bribes from purported developers, even though IIRC the land was not in the 20th Ward. Now, if it were, for instance, because some grocer other than Aldi was moving into Woodlawn because the U of C or Brazier has had some gentrifying influence there, that would be different.

And, guess again, I finally got back to the topic. Now will The Fresh Market build at the corner of 66th and Brazier? [Again, rhetorical question.]

A few differences yes, but in the present scheme of things it's still part of Emanuel's smoke and mirrors game. And I think we can have a legitimate adult discussion without calling protesters extortionists. You can disagree with their position or raise concerns about their motivation as that's your right, but we unnecessarily degrade the discussion when we resort to name calling to make a point.

[Busjack]

My pre-K days were in Woodlawn, and I grew up in Chatham. I left Chicago in 1978 (job transferred me to Peoria) and returned in 1979 [moved to Rogers Park]. I mention this because I have history with the old North-South Rapid Transit as well as the present Red Line. As a transit fan and advocate there is no way I would support this. I still associate Bishop Arthur Brazier with the truncation of the Jackson Park rapid transit. Yes the city should have found a way to replace the bridge over the IC but I still feel the L should not have been cut back to Cottage Grove.

I know some have questioned my point that there has been some development on 63rd after the L came down, but even at that, one wonders if the Y would have been developed at 63rd and Stony if that was turned into some underutilized transit center, as chicagp-l.org says was proposed, and what 63rd-Ashland turned out to be.

Not to mention whether the Green Line has a purpose (at least south of 35th) other than fortunately being there when the Red Line was shut down.

[dp1]

You can make the argument that until the south side approaches north lakefront density, the south Green Line has little purpose. Most riders take the Red Line. The branches are relevant still. Though to the east when the x3 and x4 were running you could say that the cottage grove branch lost it's purpose. To the west, the Ashland branch has a purpose. Though it irks me that it doesn't stop at Racine anymore but other stops on the same line like 43rd or indiana remains open.

[Busjack]

...Though it irks me that it doesn't stop at Racine anymore but other stops on the same line like 43rd or indiana remains open.

The original theory was that the Green Line would only have stops where the Red Line didn't, i.e. Indiana, 43rd, and 51st. However, with the "then we would have to walk through gang territory," that didn't happen (although the new Garfield station was not built until later) and the reroutes of buses on those streets to the Red Line never being rescinded, the situation you describe resulted.

That was also when the theory was that rapid transit was supposed to be rapid transit, not stop every couple of blocks. That was only implemented on the O'Hare extension and Midway line.

[dp1]

And as for Whole Foods gentrifying Englewood, I just don't see it. Kennedy King College could be the tool to gentrifying that neighborhood if it was a four year school, but it's not. Universities have the pull generally to transform neighborhoods. If Chicago State was at 63rd and Halsted and not land locked on 95th, I think Englewood would be on it's way to gentrifying.

[Busjack]

And as for Whole Foods gentrifying Englewood, I just don't see it. Kennedy King College could be the tool to gentrifying that neighborhood if it was a four year school, but it's not. Universities have the pull generally to transform neighborhoods. If Chicago State was at 63rd and Halsted and not land locked on 95th, I think Englewood would be on it's way to gentrifying.

The real issue is whether any of them would become residential colleges, and thus have the business generation students provide.

It looks like UIC had a positive effect on the neighborhood, though, although that took a lot of urban renewal (like clearing Maxwell Street), and Little Italy was always there.

[dp1]

Also in UIC's favor is being close to downtown. In the case for a residential university on the Kennedy king location, it could work. 63rd and Halsted could be a Depaul type area if there was a university instead of a city college.

[MetroShadow]

And as for Whole Foods gentrifying Englewood, I just don't see it. Kennedy King College could be the tool to gentrifying that neighborhood if it was a four year school, but it's not. Universities have the pull generally to transform neighborhoods. If Chicago State was at 63rd and Halsted and not land locked on 95th, I think Englewood would be on it's way to gentrifying.

Would anyone out of Beverly, Mt. Greenwood, or Morgan park be interested in driving north to Whole Paycheck?

Not to single out the post, but rather address the desire to gentrify. If Madison/Western can come from nothing (my roommate's mom lives on the block adjacent to future Pete's), then it could be possible that 63rd can turn into a new Wicker Park...and you're right Jack about the need to renew the area. That will take a bit to do, but it's not impossible.

[Busjack]

Would anyone out of Beverly, Mt. Greenwood, or Morgan park be interested in driving north to Whole Paycheck?

Not to single out the post, but rather address the desire to gentrify. If Madison/Western can come from nothing (my roommate's mom lives on the block adjacent to future Pete's), then it could be possible that 63rd can turn into a new Wicker Park...and you're right Jack about the need to renew the area. That will take a bit to do, but it's not impossible.

Looks like the nearest one would be in Hinsdale or Orland Park, or otherwise, you have the usual anecdote that everyone on the south side has to drive up to Roosevelt Road to buy any food.

More in point was included in the Tribune that Whole Foods was looking into also building a store in Hyde Park, which besides being more demographically compatible, has apparently overthrown the Hyde Park Coop de facto monopoly by the Coop going out of business.

And, of course, it would be more logical for Whole Foods to build in Beverly than to expect customers from there to drive to 63rd and Halsted.