Random Pace

[busfan2847]

On 10/6/2022 at 10:10 AM, urbanguy0508 said:

What's the history of the evening service routes that Pace is proposing to eliminate (routes 182-187).

When were they added to the network and why do their route numbers start with a 1? I thought anything below 200 was reserved for CTA?

I couldn't find any info about these routes on the chicagorailfan website.

https://www.chicagorailfan.com/rtaroute.html

These routes were introduced 3/12/2012 to provide weekday, late evening service (one earlier service on both 183 and 185) with fewer buses, replacing separate buses on each route for the last journeys of the day. Passengers were dropped off in the most efficient manner, as determined by the operator. (The last journey on most routes had always had flexible routing).

182 North Naperville - combined 676, 681 & 682 - 7:01pm from Naperville Metra

183 Southwest Naperville - combined 677, 680, 683-686 - 4:46pm & 7:01pm from Naperville Metra

184 South Naperville - combined 677, 678, 680, 683-689 - 7:46pm & 8:46pm from Naperville Metra

185 Southeast Naperville - combined 678, 687-689 - 4:46pm & 7:01pm from Naperville Metra

186 East Lisle - 825 - 6:53pm from Lisle Metra

187 West Lisle - combined 820, 826-828 - 6:53pm from Lisle Metra

I would imagine they were given a 180 series number to differentiate the buses from the regular commuter services in the 670, 680 and 820 series.

[Busjack]

4 hours ago, busfan2847 said:

I would imagine they were given a 180 series number to differentiate the buses from the regular

Until then they had in the route 68X timetable to take the 67Y bus (Letters are placeholders); bus will stop on request until last passenger is discharged..

Similarly, going back to the days of the 2500 series buses, there were 2 buses just marked EAST LISLE and WEST LISLE.

After about 6:45, they certainly were not running 20-30 buses. The numbering must have just been a convention. Similarly, in the early p.m. rush hour, there were several Lisle combo runs.

[urbanguy0508]

What agencies in North America are considered Pace’s peers?

[NewFlyerMCI]

1 hour ago, urbanguy0508 said:

What agencies in North America are considered Pace’s peers?

I feel like this is both an easy and hard question lol. Pace is a geographically big operation (probably top 10 in the nation), but has a small number of services. Uniquely, I believe they're the only suburban transit system that does paratransit for the major city. I'd submit the following:

• Nassau Inter-County Express (NYC Metro)
• Westchester Bee-Line (NYC Metro)
• WestCAT (Bay Area)
• Foothill Transit (LA)
• Community Transit (Seattle)
• Antelope Valley Transit Authority (LA)
• Jefferson Transit (NoLA)
• Fairfax Connector (DMV)
• SMART (Detroit)

Bay Area & LA will have many more examples than the ones I've listed here. I think Bay Area alone has like 27 different transit agencies, which mean there's probably 24ish that are similar to Pace. SEPTA & MBTA also probably have operations similar to pace, since they cover transit for their whole region and not just the city.

[Busjack]

5 hours ago, urbanguy0508 said:

What agencies in North America are considered Pace’s peers?

The Pace Budget always has a comparison to peer TAs.

• Alameda-Contra Costa Transit District (AC Transit) Alameda & Contra Costa Counties, CA
•  Broward County Transit (BCT) Broward County, FL

• Orange County Transportation Authority (OCTA) Orange County, CA
• Santa Clara Valley Transportation Authority (VTA) Santa Clara County, CA
• Montgomery County Transit Services (Ride On) Montgomery County, MD

Some of which @NewFlyerMCI listed are too small, and MBTA and SEPTA would be only if Pace and CTA were one agency.

Politically, there is a similar urban/suburban split between Detroit DOT and SMART. Detroit and San Francisco can be explained by that the cities owned and operated the systems from way back.

[rotjohns]

 

 

 

11 hours ago, Busjack said:

Politically, there is a similar urban/suburban split between Detroit DOT and SMART. Detroit and San Francisco can be explained by that the cities owned and operated the systems from way back.

I was sitting here wondering about the political issue with Detroit DOT and SMART, until I did a google search and found this:

https://www.detroitnews.com/story/news/local/detroit-city/2022/11/22/detroit-regrettably-oks-controversial-49-million-paratransit-transdev-contract-for-5-years/69650378007/

Which ultimately resulted later in this:

https://detroitmi.gov/news/mayor-duggan-authorizes-emergency-contracts-continue-1000-daily-rides-disabled-community-january-1

 

[NewFlyerMCI]

@MetroShadow would you consider AC Transit to be a peer agency of Pace? I personally wouldn't based chiefly on frequency of service (AC > Pace) but you'd know better than me. Part of my hang-up is that Pace doesn't actually serve any major cities, while ACT (along with BCT, and I guess VTA as well) do.

[MetroShadow]

On 12/21/2022 at 9:05 PM, NewFlyerMCI said:

@MetroShadow would you consider AC Transit to be a peer agency of Pace? I personally wouldn't based chiefly on frequency of service (AC > Pace) but you'd know better than me. Part of my hang-up is that Pace doesn't actually serve any major cities, while ACT (along with BCT, and I guess VTA as well) do.

That's a good question.

I say yes (Transit.recovery says yes for medium sized agencies). Both agencies serve a swath of populations, connects with other services, larger cities, and a dynamic amount of services (even down to the premium routes), and AC Transit had flex routes up until the pandemic. AC and Pace have a similar markup of vehicle quantities (Pace has no artics), and service areas are larger than you think (San Pablo to Milpitas is ~60 miles). 

Only difference is funding. AC Transit is partially funded by property taxes and from the MTC; Pace is through RTA's Sales Tax. 

[trainman8119]

It’s been a long time since I’ve been out here, so I apologize if this addressed. Does anyone know what happened to 6429 at Northwest. It is parked in back with a green tarp over then entire front windshield. Just curious. Thanks

[busfan2847]

On 1/6/2023 at 1:44 PM, trainman8119 said:

It’s been a long time since I’ve been out here, so I apologize if this addressed. Does anyone know what happened to 6429 at Northwest. It is parked in back with a green tarp over then entire front windshield. Just curious. Thanks

I do not know what happened, but according to Maths22 Pace bus tracker it was in service on 26th December last year until 1:40pm on the 606.

[artthouwill]

At today's Psce Board Meeting  ( which was on YouTube) a union representative for First Transit Chicago paratransit workers complained about First not paying the Chicago paratransit drivrrs the same wages as the First DuPage paratransit drivers and the other Chicago paratransit providers

  He said First promised to negotiate a new contract once it was up for renewal and now that it is, they won't consider raising the Chicago workers' wages.

[Busjack]

7 minutes ago, artthouwill said:

At today's Psce Board Meeting  ( which was on YouTube) a union representative for First Transit Chicago paratransit workers complained about First not paying the Chicago paratransit drivrrs the same wages as the First DuPage paratransit drivers and the other Chicago paratransit providers

  He said First promised to negotiate a new contract once it was up for renewal and now that it is, they won't consider raising the Chicago workers' wages.

I believe you previously said, and you just implied (by saying FT promised to negotiate a new contract), that the paratransit drivers are unionized, so their gripe is with their union, not the Pace board. Also, since Ride DuPage is short drivers (as indicated by Pace giving contracts to TNCs), they can apply to work for Transdev.

Irrelevancy is the main reason I usually skip the public comments.

[artthouwill]

4 hours ago, Busjack said:

I believe you previously said, and you just implied (by saying FT promised to negotiate a new contract), that the paratransit drivers are unionized, so their gripe is with their union, not the Pace board. Also, since Ride DuPage is short drivers (as indicated by Pace giving contracts to TNCs), they can apply to work for Transdev.

Irrelevancy is the main reason I usually skip the public comments.

The drivers at FT are unionized

  It was a representative from the union that was at the board meeting.  I thought it was odd for a union to show up at the meeting.   I don't think it's Pace's authority to dictate to contractors how much they should pay their employees

  I think Pace would only become concerned if the contractor was unable to fulfill its contractual obligations to Pace.  A work stoppage or slowdown could affect that.

This hearkens back to Academy employees showing up st Pace's HQ and informing them that Academy (Colonial) wasn't paying the drivers at all.  This led to Pave pulling the contract from Academy.   Colonial was already teetering and filed for bankruptcy.   

I don't know if the union thinks that the threat of losing the contract will cause FT to give in to their demands for $21 per hour.

[Busjack]

9 minutes ago, artthouwill said:

The drivers at FT are unionized

  It was a representative from the union that was at the board meeting.  I thought it was odd for a union to show up at the meeting.   I don't think it's Pace's authority to dictate to contractors how much they should pay their employees

  I think Pace would only become concerned if the contractor was unable to fulfill its contractual obligations to Pace.  A work stoppage or slowdown could affect that.

This hearkens back to Academy employees showing up st Pace's HQ and informing them that Academy lonial) wasn't paying the drivers at all.  This led to Pave pulling the contract from Academy.   Colonial was already teetering and filed for bankruptcy.   

I don't know if the union thinks that the threat of losing the contract will cause FT to give in to their demands for $21 per hour.

You;re correct on all counts. The only way Pace would have the legal authority to dictate wages would be if the contract  between Pace and the contractors specified labor standards. They do for such things as drug testing, but not for this.

It basically looks like the union rep was looking for a shortcut. While the union could strike, Pace could just give city work to MV, CDT, or SCR.

[trainman8119]

On 1/14/2023 at 10:56 AM, busfan2847 said:

I do not know what happened, but according to Maths22 Pace bus tracker it was in service on 26th December last year until 1:40pm on the 606.

Thanks.

[curiousgent31385]

Are there any Pace bus routes that operate during the night? Similar to CTA's Owl Service?

[Busjack]

 

57 minutes ago, curiousgent31385 said:

Are there any Pace bus routes that operate during the night? Similar to CTA's Owl Service?

Only 352 and UPS 3 a.m. shift routes.

But you could look it up: https://www.pacebus.com/routes-and-schedules

[curiousgent31385]

25 minutes ago, Busjack said:

Only 352 and UPS 3 a.m. shift routes.

But you could look it up: https://www.pacebus.com/routes-and-schedules

I was going to check the schedules myself, but wanted to ask here first just in case a list already existed online. Thanks for the response.

[artthouwill]

Today I had the pleasure of waiting 90 minutes for a 322 at North Riverside Mall.  It would have been 90 minutes at 54th/Cermak Pink Line but when I checked my Ventra App for the next 322 and it showed 53 minutes, I opted to use the 21 to N Riverside since the mall provides indoor shelter.   

Initially upon arrival at N Riverside,  the app was still showing a 53 minute wait.   However about 10 minutes later it showed a bus would arrive in 11 minutes.  That didn't happen.   So I waited for the next one which was supposed to be 30 minutes behind the no show.  It too was a no show.  I called Pace West and the dispatcher said he was 2 buses short on that route.   I got a courtesy ride when one finally showed up.   There were only two buses operating the 322 today.  I would have hated to have this happen on a route like 313 which is scheduled for 60 minute intervals on Sundays.

[rotjohns]

21 hours ago, artthouwill said:

Today I had the pleasure of waiting 90 minutes for a 322 at North Riverside Mall.  It would have been 90 minutes at 54th/Cermak Pink Line but when I checked my Ventra App for the next 322 and it showed 53 minutes, I opted to use the 21 to N Riverside since the mall provides indoor shelter.   

Initially upon arrival at N Riverside,  the app was still showing a 53 minute wait.   However about 10 minutes later it showed a bus would arrive in 11 minutes.  That didn't happen.   So I waited for the next one which was supposed to be 30 minutes behind the no show.  It too was a no show.  I called Pace West and the dispatcher said he was 2 buses short on that route.   I got a courtesy ride when one finally showed up.   There were only two buses operating the 322 today.  I would have hated to have this happen on a route like 313 which is scheduled for 60 minute intervals on Sundays.

Assuming you went thru this on a Sunday, if my calculations are correct based on the schedule, should be 4 buses running on Sunday until around 6pm.  So if 2 were short, that's puts passengers waiting minimum 60 minutes, possibly 90 minutes, for a bus on a heavily traveled.  Not good. 

It's no wonder Pace is hiring so heavily right now and you'd have to wonder if Sundays are becoming a bigger problem than advertised.  Because it's guaranteed that any new driver will be working on a Sunday to start.  Since 322 is a mall route (3 in fact), that route isn't going anywhere.  But it does make you wonder if less productive Sunday routes are going to start feeling it.

EDIT:  So today, route 715 is one bus short.  And that bus is the one scheduled to go to Argonne at 5:24pm.  Unless maps is not working properly, that's going to be a problem.

[trainman8119]

On 1/6/2023 at 1:44 PM, trainman8119 said:

It’s been a long time since I’ve been out here, so I apologize if this addressed. Does anyone know what happened to 6429 at Northwest. It is parked in back with a green tarp over then entire front windshield. Just curious. Thanks

**UPDATE** - still don’t know exactly what happened, but going by the garage this morning the tarp was off and the bus was fired up. The entire right windshield was shattered and it looked like the right corner was smashed into the door.

[urbanguy0508]

Are there any good books (or other resources) that discuss the history of the old United Motor Coach routes?

[Busjack]

2 hours ago, urbanguy0508 said:

Are there any good books (or other resources) that discuss the history of the old United Motor Coach routes?

Go to Chicago Transit and Railfan on the web.

[urbanguy0508]

1 hour ago, Busjack said:

Go to Chicago Transit and Railfan on the web.

Yeah I came across that web page.

https://www.chicagorailfan.com/rtaroute.html

I was curious to know if there were any physical resources like books. No worries if not.

[krzysiu221322]

I noticed these "Service Group" listings on the webpage of Pace bus routes on RTAMS.

https://rtams.org/services/pace/routes?items_per_page=All&combine=

• Commuter Links
• CTA Connector
• Express Service
• Intra-community
• On Demand
• Suburban Links
• Seasonal

What do they represent? Different route types?