If I ran Transit for one day...

[jajuan]

I agree with BusHunter. LRT wouldn't be too bad an idea, as we don't even have LRT here in Chicago.

LRT may be of some help in the instance he described, but that does not mean you scrap most of the remaining bus express routes in the city to implement it as the person I responded to said he wanted to do especially when as I and others noted, the Red and Brown Lines are actually local services in comparison to the express buses that operate on North LSD.

[artthouwill]

I thought the purpose of this thread was to give some thoughtful creative ideas for what could be improved at CTA. The title says "If I ran CTA for a day". Most of the suggestions that I have seen could never be implemented for ONE day. Perhaps the thread is mistitledm but some of these suggestions have been nothing short of absurd. Haivng a route going down Augusta. just for the sake of it, is absurd when there are two routes 1/4 mile on either side of Augusta. Sometimes I wonder why I subject myself to reading this thread. I guess I am a glutton for punishment.

[jajuan]

There never was a reason why they went half baked with the --N and --S. The consistent thing would have been to get rid of the As and Bs and do something like the above. A similar half baked job was when they changed 50A to 48, but kept most of the other As and Bs. 49B became a mess when 49A was killed. There was also a time when there was a 54B without a 54A.

Here, there really isn't a point, because there isn't east and west routes on those streets and hence no ambiguity (unless one wants to make an argument about 67 67/69/71),

Also, at one time, 51 went to Lake Park.

95 93/95 goes back to streetcar times, but if I were doing anything (like the 1976 renumbering), I would have used 93 because it is mostly on 93rd, not 95th.

I'll also note that the Crowd Reduction Plan did away with several others that were no longer on the indicated streets--1 Indiana-Hyde Park (not on Hyde Park) and 145 Wilson-Michigan Exp. (Grace trips never made it to Wilson).

I see your point on the 1 and 145 during the years between the 2003 Lake Shore Drive and nearby area restructings and December 2012 Crowd Reduction implementation. The case of the 1 could really see because after they cut it back to 51st/Drexel Square, the Hyde Park part of the route name not only lost relevance as far as street name, it also no longer had relevance as far as the area/neighborhood served like the Streeterville portion of the 157 referring to the neighborhood in the downtown area or Hyde Park for the current form of the 2 arguably referring more to neighborhood than street since only its peak direction in each rush period using Hyde Park Blvd while its off peak direction meanders a bit through Hyde Park the neighborhood. But in a way it could be argued that with the 145 the Wilson/Michigan Express name was still justified because while the peak direction didn't operate on Wilson in the rush periods, its off peak direction still did because it was tied to the 148 in its pre-Crowd Reduction form. Morning rush NB 145s became a good chunk of the morning rush 148s going SB into downtown, and the PM rush 148s once making it to Ravenswood/Wilson became SB full trip 145s back into downtown.

[Busjack]

...r Hyde Park for the current form of the 2 arguably referring more to neighborhood than street since only its peak direction in each rush period using Hyde Park Blvd while its off peak direction meanders a bit through Hyde Park the neighborhood....

Until the South LSD restructuring, 2 essentially only ran on Hyde Park Blvd., ending at Drexel Square.

The issue I raised was retaining route names after the routes have been significantly altered, and I think that the change to 1 Bronzeville/Union Station was the only conscious change. 148 Clarendon-Mich only resulted from default (it being formerly the rush hour bus that went to Wilson, and retained, but rerouted to Marine Dr.).

Bronzeville, Hyde Park, Jackson Park, and Streeterville do raise the question how often and whether CTA should name routes after neighborhoods. I suppose that NFMCI raised a similar issue to South Shore buses (are they the neighborhood or the Blvd.?) especially given my prior observation that neither CTA nor CSL was willing to name a Commercial Ave. route, even though 26 and 71 (full trips) essentially serve Commercial Ave.

[MetroShadow]

New Idea: Combine 96 and 155 service into bi-directional loop

This might be the only idea I can get behind, and that says a lot.

[Busjack]

This might be the only idea I can get behind, and that says a lot.

Except for the different frequencies, a heavy route (Devon) getting tied up by a narrow street (Lunt) and whether service on Lunt is necessary at all.

[MetroShadow]

Except for the different frequencies, a heavy route (Devon) getting tied up by a narrow street (Lunt) and whether service on Lunt is necessary at all.

If we followed the topic name verbatim, I'd try this out to see if it's even feasible. You know it's not. I know it's not.

[strictures]

Except for the different frequencies, a heavy route (Devon) getting tied up by a narrow street (Lunt) and whether service on Lunt is necessary at all.

Move the 96 to Pratt, which is where it should have been in the first place. But it couldn't use Pratt between Western & Seeley, because of the golf course, due to Pratt being only 16 feet wide, which was too narrow for 96" wide buses to pass each other.

[NewFlyerMCI]

In regards to the Mid-City Transitway, is that even going to be built? Are they trying to construct something similar to the State Street Transit Mall?

Why does the 67 have its current routing? Is there sufficient demand to keep the 67 along 71st from Halsted to its Ford City destination and see if there is a possible viability to bringing the 110 back and extending it 69th/Red Line?

Other ideas I've read about:

1) Scaling the 71 back to 106th/Mackinaw, 91st/Commercial or 92nd/Buffalo. Arguments say that most of the factories in South Deering, most notably Wisconsin Steel Works are now defunct and no longer need service. Furthermore, they go on to say that Jeffery Manor and Slag Valley is adequately served by the 100, 15 and the now J14. I personally don't agree, seeing as there are houses as far south as Torrence/110th and the bus doesn't end far from that.

2) Extending the 6 to 91st/Commercial. Argument for this was so that people coming/heading to downtown at later/earlier hours didn't have to get off between 71st and 79th and transfer if something happened with the 26 (service ended, missed bus, crowding, etc). This makes a little bit of sense to me, but if I had to, I would only implement it as a weekday measure and it would be uni-directional only (travels in the direction of peak traffic).

[Busjack]

In regards to the Mid-City Transitway, is that even going to be built? Are they trying to construct something similar to the State Street Transit Mall?

...

The Carroll St. Transitway got mentioned again recently (which I presume would be LRT), but it appears that the only project being seriously pursued is the Washington-BRT "circulator""BRT". If you are referring to the L that was supposed to run in the railroad rights of way near Cicero and 75th, the Circle Line consultants delayed the results of that study for 3 years by studying justification for killing that.

Transit malls were proven to be failures. In the case of State Street, it seemed to be needed when all the southwest side express buses used it, but that resulted in a wall of buses, and also complaints that the sidewalk was too wide (apparently encouraged muggers). Also, I raised the argument that State Street isn't what it once was as a shopping destination.

,,,

Why does the 67 have its current routing? Is there sufficient demand to keep the 67 along 71st from Halsted to its Ford City destination and see if there is a possible viability to bringing the 110 back and extending it 69th/Red Line?

....

The current routing (at least on 69th) seems historical in that the streetcar couldn't be on the boulevard. However, as the routing of 94 and the CREATE plan indicate, nobody wants to deal with the grade crossing on 71st between Damen and Western.

....

1) Scaling the 71 back to 106th/Mackinaw, 91st/Commercial or 92nd/Buffalo. Arguments say that most of the factories in South Deering, most notably Wisconsin Steel Works are now defunct and no longer need service. Furthermore, they go on to say that Jeffery Manor and Slag Valley is adequately served by the 100, 15 and the now J14. I personally don't agree, seeing as there are houses as far south as Torrence/110th and the bus doesn't end far from that.

....

I think you answered you own question. 71 ends at 112th, which is near the end of the residential area. 27 used to go to 124th or 127th.

Also, there used to be 30 variants via 109th or 113th, but they are no longer around, I assume for the reason you state.

[NewFlyerMCI]

I'm not actually sure what the CREATE plan is, if someone could find me a link, that would be helpful. The closest I got was the pdf for the FY13.

In regards to Bus's previous post,

The current routing (at least on 69th) seems historical in that the streetcar couldn't be on the boulevard. However, as the routing of 94 and the CREATE plan indicate, nobody wants to deal with the grade crossing on 71st between Damen and Western.

I know about the grade crossing, but why was the 94 extended to 74th/Damen?

Where would there be the most demand in the city for LRT? Not to mention that CTA could finish with BRT before they even look at that bandwagon. The Ashland BRT is making no headway, imo, and that is priced at $160 million. I stated in my previous post about suggested Jump routes and the fact that 16 of them would require $2.8 billion.

Who else is excited about what the new 95th terminal is going to look like! By the way the renderings look, I think it is going to be Pace on one side and CTA on the other. I hope they change the bus bay assignments, at least for CTA so that things are a bit more synonymous (111 and 115 share a terminal, 95E/95W, 103/106, etc), unless the frequency of service is radically different (I believe that is why the 95's were split.

Idea: Reroute the 54B to 54th/Cermak. That way, people could have the option of whether or not to get off and board at Cicero or not. Where does the bus turn around anyway, because when I go to google maps and search "Cermak & Kenton" they can't find the location? To be truthfully honest, Kenton gets blocked multiple times, by Ford City, Orange line and freight tracks, although when it does show up, it runs parallel to said tracks

[Busjack]

I'm not actually sure what the CREATE plan is, if someone could find me a link, that would be helpful. The closest I got was the pdf for the FY13.

...

The relevant portion is the list of Passenger Projects, and then click on the 74th and 75th ones.

[NewFlyerMCI]

1) Build a tunnel so that passengers at Clinton could have direct access to Union Station

2) Madison stop on Pink Line for United Center (26-38 million)

3) Green Line extension back to Stony Island (88-125 million)

4) Go forward with consolidating Randolph/Wabash and Madison/Wabash into Washington/State (26-38 million)

5) Build actual transfer between Library and Jackson stops and Lake and State/Lake

6) Combine the Orange and Brown Lines, reroute through Van Buren and Wells portion of the loop, new transfer at Library would work like Clark/Lake

[Busjack]

....

3) Green Line extension back to Stony Island (88-125 million)

....

Neighborhood doesn't want that blight. The Church of No-L demanded that it be removed in front of it.

[strictures]

1) Build a tunnel so that passengers at Clinton could have direct access to Union Station

2) Madison stop on Pink Line for United Center (26-38 million)

3) Green Line extension back to Stony Island (88-125 million)

4) Go forward with consolidating Randolph/Wabash and Madison/Wabash into Washington/State (26-38 million)

5) Build actual transfer between Library and Jackson stops and Lake and State/Lake

6) Combine the Orange and Brown Lines, reroute through Van Buren and Wells portion of the loop, new transfer at Library would work like Clark/Lake

7) Rebuild the direct link from the LaSalle/Van Buren Station to LaSalle St. Rock Island station.

[Tcmetro]

Some sort of pedestrian connection from Clinton on the Pink/Green, as well as one from the Blue line stop to the train stations would be nice. However, I'm concerned that there is not enough traffic during off-peak hours to justify such a connection. The Clinton St subway has been mentioned by CDOT in the past, but I don't believe the stakeholders are actually interested in the project. Recent developments in the Union Station Master Plan project have suggested a separate mainline rail tunnel on Canal, effectively separating such a tunnel from any CTA tunnel. This would let a mainline tunnel be possible without any problems with the CTA or CDOT.

I agree with the need for more infill stations. Madison on the Pink is a good one, as well as 16th on the Green/Orange, Wentworth on the Orange, somewhere between 26th and 31st on the Green, Division/Orleans on Brown/Purple, and Halsted/North on Brown/Purple. Almost all of these are in very promising neighborhoods that will likely have a good amount of downtown workers living in them. The biggest problem is cost, I wouldn't be surprised if they're 50-100 million each.

New enclosed downtown transfers are much less necessary, now that Ventra is up and running and necessary to take the L. It seems like a lot of expense for little benefit. Most transfers that aren't already accommodated require a 1 block walk at most, and often times less than a block. IIRC, CDOT is looking into reconstructing the State/Lake loop station. We probably won't hear or see anything until after Washington/Wabash is complete.

I think one change that will be possible is all day service on the Purple Line Express once the North Main project is complete. I wonder how many people will transfer between Red and Purple though, due to the peculiar operating of Red being faster south of Belmont and Purple being faster north of Belmont.

My personal suggestion would be for Purple line trains to run express from Howard, into the Subway and out to 95th. Red line trains could run local to loop from Howard, and riders could transfer at express stops at Loyola, Bryn Mawr, Wilson, Belmont, and Fullerton. The problem that would have to be solved is the point where locals and expresses would have to switch from the inside tracks to the outside tracks. Additionally, it's hard to tell if midday and reverse commute ridership patterns could even support such a service increase.

The only other L extension that looks promising is the Blue Line extension to Mannheim Rd that is being studied for Eisenhower Expressway reconstruction. We'll see if any money ever materializes for an extension in due time.

[Busjack]

Some sort of pedestrian connection from Clinton on the Pink/Green, as well as one from the Blue line stop to the train stations would be nice. ...

There was once something called the "Northwest Connetion" which took the space of a track under the train shed to provide this connection. Maybe someone knows why it was eliminated.

[Busjack]

...

I think one change that will be possible is all day service on the Purple Line Express once the North Main project is complete. I wonder how many people will transfer between Red and Purple though, due to the peculiar operating of Red being faster south of Belmont and Purple being faster north of Belmont.

My personal suggestion would be for Purple line trains to run express from Howard, into the Subway and out to 95th. Red line trains could run local to loop from Howard, and riders could transfer at express stops at Loyola, Bryn Mawr, Wilson, Belmont, and Fullerton. The problem that would have to be solved is the point where locals and expresses would have to switch from the inside tracks to the outside tracks. Additionally, it's hard to tell if midday and reverse commute ridership patterns could even support such a service increase.

...

More Purple Line and through the subway seem contemplated However station plans don't call for dual platforms between Howard and Wilson, and adding more "express stops" in that range would mean that it isn't express. Various surveys indicate that the south end of the Red Line does not have the passenger load that the north side does, and hence any Purple Express should end at one of the Cermak stations (or if a Chinatown station is built on the Orange Line in accordance with the lifeless Circle Line proposal)..

Update: Your concept of "express" service would be better served by bringing back A and B trains on the Red Line itself.

[strictures]

There was once something called the "Northwest Connection" which took the space of a track under the train shed to provide this connection. Maybe someone knows why it was eliminated.

I think the railroad wanted Track 1 back in service, along with the short bridge needing replacement. Also, the rebuilding of the Clinton station in 1995 with the reconstruction of the line may have had something to do with it.

Why don't they just build an enclosed bridge over the sidewalk on Clinton from the Main Concourse to the mezzanine level of the Clinton L station?

[NewFlyerMCI]

Some sort of pedestrian connection from Clinton on the Pink/Green, as well as one from the Blue line stop to the train stations would be nice. However, I'm concerned that there is not enough traffic during off-peak hours to justify such a connection. The Clinton St subway has been mentioned by CDOT in the past, but I don't believe the stakeholders are actually interested in the project. Recent developments in the Union Station Master Plan project have suggested a separate mainline rail tunnel on Canal, effectively separating such a tunnel from any CTA tunnel. This would let a mainline tunnel be possible without any problems with the CTA or CDOT.

I agree with the need for more infill stations. Madison on the Pink is a good one, as well as 16th on the Green/Orange, Wentworth on the Orange, somewhere between 26th and 31st on the Green, Division/Orleans on Brown/Purple, and Halsted/North on Brown/Purple. Almost all of these are in very promising neighborhoods that will likely have a good amount of downtown workers living in them. The biggest problem is cost, I wouldn't be surprised if they're 50-100 million each.

New enclosed downtown transfers are much less necessary, now that Ventra is up and running and necessary to take the L. It seems like a lot of expense for little benefit. Most transfers that aren't already accommodated require a 1 block walk at most, and often times less than a block. IIRC, CDOT is looking into reconstructing the State/Lake loop station. We probably won't hear or see anything until after Washington/Wabash is complete.

I think one change that will be possible is all day service on the Purple Line Express once the North Main project is complete. I wonder how many people will transfer between Red and Purple though, due to the peculiar operating of Red being faster south of Belmont and Purple being faster north of Belmont.

My personal suggestion would be for Purple line trains to run express from Howard, into the Subway and out to 95th. Red line trains could run local to loop from Howard, and riders could transfer at express stops at Loyola, Bryn Mawr, Wilson, Belmont, and Fullerton. The problem that would have to be solved is the point where locals and expresses would have to switch from the inside tracks to the outside tracks. Additionally, it's hard to tell if midday and reverse commute ridership patterns could even support such a service increase.

The only other L extension that looks promising is the Blue Line extension to Mannheim Rd that is being studied for Eisenhower Expressway reconstruction. We'll see if any money ever materializes for an extension in due time.

Division/Orleans: CTA obviously felt as though Sedgwick provided enough service for Old Town, since Division along with several other stations was closed in 1979 in their North-South revision plan. The reasons cited were because of low service and not fitting the A/B skip stop service. The proposed Divison stops seems too close to Sedgwick. As it is, stops like Wellington and Diversey are too close as it is, imo, they should demolish the stations, build a stop at George St where the tracks are, with auxiliaries at Oakdale and Wolfram (Both 1 block from the current stations) and call the station Lakeview.

Halsted/North: Your station would be right next to the North/Clybourn on the Red Line. The transfer seems nice, but people coming from the North Side can easily transfer at Fullerton or Belmont and if you are downtown, you are still some what close to the Red Line, depending on your distance from State. Also, as Busjack brought up earlier, you would be further slowing down the Purple Line, which is sure to send some residents in Evanston, if not Skokie as well into an uproar.

16th: I like this, but there is no space without demolishing the Orange Line tracks and the tracks that (presumably) lead into the State St Subway.

26th to 31st: I like this too. I would probably place this somewhere at 28th St along the tracks and call it North Douglas. A possible traffic generator could be Mercy Hospital.

Wentworth: I like this too. I would consider if it would be better placed at Cermak/Canal, so that a curved platform wouldn't have to be built, although both locations would be walking distance to Cermak-Chinatown

While we are on the topic of infill stations, a 43rd stop on the Orange Line, would that be viable? There are neighborhoods and bus routes nearby, but that particular section of track is in a huge freight yard which is essentially a giant hole in the neighborhood, making a walk to the station longer than usual.

[MetroShadow]

Division/Orleans: CTA obviously felt as though Sedgwick provided enough service for Old Town, since Division along with several other stations was closed in 1979 in their North-South revision plan. The reasons cited were because of low service and not fitting the A/B skip stop service. The proposed Divison stops seems too close to Sedgwick. As it is, stops like Wellington and Diversey are too close as it is, imo, they should demolish the stations, build a stop at George St where the tracks are, with auxiliaries at Oakdale and Wolfram (Both 1 block from the current stations) and call the station Lakeview.

Halsted/North: Your station would be right next to the North/Clybourn on the Red Line. The transfer seems nice, but people coming from the North Side can easily transfer at Fullerton or Belmont and if you are downtown, you are still some what close to the Red Line, depending on your distance from State. Also, as Busjack brought up earlier, you would be further slowing down the Purple Line, which is sure to send some residents in Evanston, if not Skokie as well into an uproar.

16th: I like this, but there is no space without demolishing the Orange Line tracks and the tracks that (presumably) lead into the State St Subway.

26th to 31st: I like this too. I would probably place this somewhere at 28th St along the tracks and call it North Douglas. A possible traffic generator could be Mercy Hospital.

Wentworth: I like this too. I would consider if it would be better placed at Cermak/Canal, so that a curved platform wouldn't have to be built, although both locations would be walking distance to Cermak-Chinatown

While we are on the topic of infill stations, a 43rd stop on the Orange Line, would that be viable? There are neighborhoods and bus routes nearby, but that particular section of track is in a huge freight yard which is essentially a giant hole in the neighborhood, making a walk to the station longer than usual.

Division/Orleans has the LaSalle entrance to the Red. Less than a half-mile walk.

Halsted/North: You have the Red Line and the appropriate crosstown buses.

16th: You've covered that. Not necessary.

26th to 31st: WAT? (If Orange, use Ashland/29th or 35/Western; if Green use 35th or Cermak; if Red, use 35th or Cermak).

Wentworth: Since you've not specified what line, I would assume Orange, That's not necessary because of the Red AND Green lines.

43rd Street on the Orange would be in the middle of the Right of Way (CSX?) Use the 35th and Western/49 Stations.

_ _ _ _ _ _

With the unnecessary additions of these stations, they tend to take away from the concept of "Rapid" Transit. You add stops, you make the line slowly inefficient. There has to be a methodology to have stations (along with the necessary data to back it up). Yes, The West and South Loops have flourished in the last 15 years; but at the same time, selections of the stations are far more nuanced and actually selective (i.e. Madison on the Pink would be a fair choice)

[MetroShadow]

They got some whopper bus bunching tonight. I saw 6 #77's in a pack and 5 #76's. Someone was complaining of no service to nature museum for 30 minutes. Right now I'm on this #152 that has no bus behind it for 52 minutes. Saw the 3 bus pack going east while I waited the 25 minutes for my bus. I wonder why the control center doesn't turn some of these bus. All three of these routes need reloads.

Idea: Implement an active route management system. No more excessive bus bunching.

[Busjack]

Idea: Implement an active route management system. No more excessive bus bunching.

The budget claims they are getting computerized dispatch.

On the other hand, driving conditions were lousy last night and this morning. Nothing is going to change that.

[strictures]

The budget claims they are getting computerized dispatch.

On the other hand, driving conditions were lousy last night and this morning. Nothing is going to change that.

What good would computerized dispatch do, if the geniuses at the secret Racine Ave. control center won't flip buses when possible?

On several occasions I've seen 4-5, 22s at Devon/Clark, all going to Howard in the evening rush. Now I know that at least two of them are going straight back to NP from Howard. So why not flip one of them at Devon that's not going to NP & let the other continue on?

No form of computerized dispatch can replace the street corner supervisor that was in that little booth at the corner, as long as the control center is run by fools who don't give a damn about the riders.

[Busjack]

What good would computerized dispatch do, if the geniuses at the secret Racine Ave. control center won't flip buses when possible?

On several occasions I've seen 4-5, 22s at Devon/Clark, all going to Howard in the evening rush. Now I know that at least two of them are going straight back to NP from Howard. So why not flip one of them at Devon that's not going to NP & let the other continue on?

No form of computerized dispatch can replace the street corner supervisor that was in that little booth at the corner, as long as the control center is run by fools who don't give a damn about the riders.

Taking the assumption that CTA can foul up anything...

They claimed (when 74th was made all BusTracker) that the supervisors had laptops and could deal with bus bunching. Apparently they couldn't.

Maybe a computer plugged into BusTracker can do better.

However, in the scenario you posted, if they are going back to the garage, wouldn't work hours and overtime be implicated? A normal rush hour round trip is 2-1/2 hours; what's it going to be in the snow? You probably would need a good chunk of the extra board stationed at Howard.