Random Metra

[Smolensk]

1 hour ago, NewFlyerMCI said:

 There's already a CTA/Pace pass, so why not CTA/Metra, Metra/Pace or an all-systems pass.

There already are.

The PlusBus pass ($30) is good on Pace at all times.  The Link-Up Pass ($55) is good on CTA during weekday rush hours and Pace at all times.  Both must be purchased with a Metra monthly pass.

 

https://metrarail.com/tickets/connecting-service-options

[Sam92]

7 hours ago, NewFlyerMCI said:

Well, it's half a step. You can purchase tickets and passes on your phone now, and present them to the conductor as POP, but this doesn't really integrate the system. Since the Ventra readers can accept contactless payment (apple wallet, modern bank cards, whatever android uses, the actual ventra cards themselves, etc), Metra stations and conductors would also need to be outfitted with Ventra readers in order to truly integrate the system.

However, this would end up like where SEPTA is now, with their Key system, where one wallet can pay for all trips, be it subway, bus, trolley or commuter rail, but transfers to/from commuter rail are basically still non-existent, despite all modes being able to be paid for with one card. Relating to Philly, specifically, I believe this wasn't a big focus because bus to train connections for the regional rail aren't big in the suburbs, since most passengers are walk-up or park & ride, but also because the three downtown stops for the regional rail allow the majority of ridership to walk to their jobs, unlike New York, where MNR riders are packing on the 4/5/6 to reach Lower Manhattan, or DC, where Amtrak/VRE/MARC riders consistently made Union Station on the Red Line the busiest station in the WMATA system for years before the pandemic (MARC even has a combo monthly pass/smartrip card) because Union Station is located downtown adjacent or even Chicago, where some people might be able to walk, but routes like the 125 exist for valid reasons.

So in order for something like this to work, you'd have to transform Ventra from the card and the app, to making them effectively one and the same thing, if that makes sense? You would be able to use your Ventra card, but from your phone if you wanted to, while still retaining the ability to pay for tickets, passes, or add value to the card from the app. You'd still be able to use the card as a valid form of fare media (hence the scanners conductors would have). You would also have to provide incentives to encourage transfers. There's already a CTA/Pace pass, so why not CTA/Metra, Metra/Pace or an all-systems pass. Free transfers from Metra to CTA/Pace even? Zone passes could come with free CTA or free Pace included depending on the zone? Things of that nature are possible with full integration.

Yeah I get what you’re saying but that’s a bit expensive and might take a while which is why I suggested a password that only metra staff would have when you pull up your ticket that can charge you as a city rider vs a suburban similar to the self check out code only jewel workers can use once you verify you’re old enough to buy liquor of food an item. Can still even enforce it the same (cause if I charged you as a city rider at clybourn why are you still on this train at mcHenry?). Metra needs a way to survive without its typical market and this could help in a way especially if RTA were to get more involved and encourage transferring between the two. Ok so I said the other day RI wouldn’t hit as much with the south cook pilot because of a lack of connections, what if that code the conductors had authorized your next cta line as a free or .25 transfer thus now transferring at 35th between metra and red for the far south riders to make they trip the rest of the way up north or deeper into downtown. Could even help bring @artthouwill idea into fruition about a lake street green express track. The express track is gone but metra is next to it and can be an oak park express letting the green and 20 handle the more local work.

[artthouwill]

3 hours ago, Sam92 said:

Yeah I get what you’re saying but that’s a bit expensive and might take a while which is why I suggested a password that only metra staff would have when you pull up your ticket that can charge you as a city rider vs a suburban similar to the self check out code only jewel workers can use once you verify you’re old enough to buy liquor of food an item. Can still even enforce it the same (cause if I charged you as a city rider at clybourn why are you still on this train at mcHenry?). Metra needs a way to survive without its typical market and this could help in a way especially if RTA were to get more involved and encourage transferring between the two. Ok so I said the other day RI wouldn’t hit as much with the south cook pilot because of a lack of connections, what if that code the conductors had authorized your next cta line as a free or .25 transfer thus now transferring at 35th between metra and red for the far south riders to make they trip the rest of the way up north or deeper into downtown. Could even help bring @artthouwill idea into fruition about a lake street green express track. The express track is gone but metra is next to it and can be an oak park express letting the green and 20 handle the more local work.

I think the transfer issue is the biggest obstacle in integration Metra in the mix.  Obviously it would be a big benefit for Metra riders to cheaply or freely transfer to CTA.   The first problem is how much of the .extra fare, if anything,  would  CTA get?  What time would the two hour window for transfers start?  At the time of purchase or when the Metra conductor codes the fare?  How would transfers work when Metra isn't the first ride on a trip?  Would Metra deduct the CTA and/or the cost of the transfer from the zone fare?  How would transfer work on monthlies. 10 rides and weekend passes?  

How does a Link Up Pass work on Ventra on the CTA end?  How does the card deduct only $1?  DOES the rider have to show his phone to the CTA driver to prove the monthly ticket ?

[NewFlyerMCI]

9 hours ago, Smolensk said:

There already are.

The PlusBus pass ($30) is good on Pace at all times.  The Link-Up Pass ($55) is good on CTA during weekday rush hours and Pace at all times.  Both must be purchased with a Metra monthly pass.

 

https://metrarail.com/tickets/connecting-service-options

The Link-Up pass pretty much ignores city metra riders who are probably more likely to take metra on the weekends as well out of convenience

[NewFlyerMCI]

3 hours ago, Sam92 said:

Yeah I get what you’re saying but that’s a bit expensive and might take a while which is why I suggested a password that only metra staff would have when you pull up your ticket that can charge you as a city rider vs a suburban similar to the self check out code only jewel workers can use once you verify you’re old enough to buy liquor of food an item. Can still even enforce it the same (cause if I charged you as a city rider at clybourn why are you still on this train at mcHenry?). Metra needs a way to survive without its typical market and this could help in a way especially if RTA were to get more involved and encourage transferring between the two. Ok so I said the other day RI wouldn’t hit as much with the south cook pilot because of a lack of connections, what if that code the conductors had authorized your next cta line as a free or .25 transfer thus now transferring at 35th between metra and red for the far south riders to make they trip the rest of the way up north or deeper into downtown. Could even help bring @artthouwill idea into fruition about a lake street green express track. The express track is gone but metra is next to it and can be an oak park express letting the green and 20 handle the more local work.

Personally, I think that password system would be a tad more complicated. And while it might be expensive (I'm currently trying to see how much the Key and the OMNY rollout were/are), the benefit is that CTA and Pace buses already have the Ventra technology and people already have Ventra cards & the app. The three new expenses would be Ventra + Apple Wallet integration (not sure that's that expensive), readers for the conductor and readers at the stations (which again, I'm not sure that would be a great expense, although I still need to find numbers)

[NewFlyerMCI]

13 minutes ago, artthouwill said:

I think the transfer issue is the biggest obstacle in integration Metra in the mix.  Obviously it would be a big benefit for Metra riders to cheaply or freely transfer to CTA.   The first problem is how much of the .extra fare, if anything,  would  CTA get?  What time would the two hour window for transfers start?  At the time of purchase or when the Metra conductor codes the fare?  How would transfers work when Metra isn't the first ride on a trip?  Would Metra deduct the CTA and/or the cost of the transfer from the zone fare?  How would transfer work on monthlies. 10 rides and weekend passes?  

How does a Link Up Pass work on Ventra on the CTA end?  How does the card deduct only $1?  DOES the rider have to show his phone to the CTA driver to prove the monthly ticket ?

Probably raising the overall fare of a weekly/monthly pass in exchange for automatic free CTA and/or Pace riders. I imagine since most Metra riders are taking CTA at least upon reaching downtown, this wouldn't face that much criticism.

[artthouwill]

1 hour ago, NewFlyerMCI said:

Probably raising the overall fare of a weekly/monthly pass in exchange for automatic free CTA and/or Pace riders. I imagine since most Metra riders are taking CTA at least upon reaching downtown, this wouldn't face that much criticism.

I get that in regards to my last questions. But how should that work in regards to what @Sam92was proposing in terms of Metra and CTA transfers outside of the traditional downtown commuter model?

[Sam92]

3 hours ago, artthouwill said:

I think the transfer issue is the biggest obstacle in integration Metra in the mix.  Obviously it would be a big benefit for Metra riders to cheaply or freely transfer to CTA.   The first problem is how much of the .extra fare, if anything,  would  CTA get?  What time would the two hour window for transfers start?  At the time of purchase or when the Metra conductor codes the fare?  How would transfers work when Metra isn't the first ride on a trip?  Would Metra deduct the CTA and/or the cost of the transfer from the zone fare?  How would transfer work on monthlies. 10 rides and weekend passes?  

How does a Link Up Pass work on Ventra on the CTA end?  How does the card deduct only $1?  DOES the rider have to show his phone to the CTA driver to prove the monthly ticket ?

Hmm. That would probably lead to having to restructuring the funding formulas now that you bring that up too. I’m not sure about the link up most I know about it is that it’s a discount or bundle for people downtown switching to a 120 series. Maybe they can do CTA/Metra monthly’s (similar to pace/cta 7 days) and do all zones in the city at a certain incentive that provides an option for areas that metra can reach but cta doesn’t or is still planning to which would help metra get a better fighting chance at survival while also freeing up capacity on cta in corridors they parallel. 

[Smolensk]

2 hours ago, Sam92 said:

 I’m not sure about the link up most I know about it is that it’s a discount or bundle for people downtown switching to a 120 series.

The Link-Up Pass is good on all CTA routes, but during limited hours.  It is also good on Pace regular-fare routes at all times.  I don't know about the Pace premium fare routes, however.

[NewFlyerMCI]

6 hours ago, artthouwill said:

I think the transfer issue is the biggest obstacle in integration Metra in the mix.  Obviously it would be a big benefit for Metra riders to cheaply or freely transfer to CTA.   The first problem is how much of the .extra fare, if anything,  would  CTA get?  What time would the two hour window for transfers start?  At the time of purchase or when the Metra conductor codes the fare?  How would transfers work when Metra isn't the first ride on a trip?  Would Metra deduct the CTA and/or the cost of the transfer from the zone fare?  How would transfer work on monthlies. 10 rides and weekend passes?  

How does a Link Up Pass work on Ventra on the CTA end?  How does the card deduct only $1?  DOES the rider have to show his phone to the CTA driver to prove the monthly ticket ?

 

4 hours ago, artthouwill said:

I get that in regards to my last questions. But how should that work in regards to what @Sam92was proposing in terms of Metra and CTA transfers outside of the traditional downtown commuter model?

My bad, I did miss those. On a tap on, tap off system, it would be most sound for the transfer window to begin after the tap off. This also serves as further incentive for people to tap off once they're off the train (in order to charge them the proper fare). Because Metra works off of zone based fares, I'm not sure there could be any transfer benefit from CTA/Pace to Metra, but having more integrated pass options would mitigate this. If the $10 weekend passes and the zoned weekly/monthly passes came with CTA/Pace included, there wouldn't be any need to worry about the transfer, you'd just have to ensure you're paying with the same fare media. If there absolutely had to be some sort of bus to train transfer, maybe a $2.50 credit back on the card if you tap at a Metra station within 2 hours of tapping to ride on CTA/Pace?

2 hours ago, Sam92 said:

Hmm. That would probably lead to having to restructuring the funding formulas now that you bring that up too. I’m not sure about the link up most I know about it is that it’s a discount or bundle for people downtown switching to a 120 series. Maybe they can do CTA/Metra monthly’s (similar to pace/cta 7 days) and do all zones in the city at a certain incentive that provides an option for areas that metra can reach but cta doesn’t or is still planning to which would help metra get a better fighting chance at survival while also freeing up capacity on cta in corridors they parallel. 

I'm not sure the fare forumla would have to change, but stations might have to be rezoned. In Philly, all stations located in the Philly city limits, but outside of the Center City zone (called CCP/1) are zoned for Zone 2 (out of 5 total zones). Something similar to the FTSC pilot would have to be enacted across the city. However, I don't think it's truly major, it would just mean some zone C stations would become Zone B (which, tbh, I feel they should be anyway if they're inside city limits.) I think this would only currently affect Edison Park, Norwood Park, Wrightwood, Ashburn, Forest Glen & Edgebrook. Also technically maybe O'Hare Transfer lol. This also begs the question of whether some Zone B stations in the suburbs should be rezoned to C, such as River Forest and Oak Park, and everything from Cicero to Harlem Ave on the BNSF.

To your latter point, I'm not sure there are areas Metra goes in the city that CTA isn't immediately close by or at least 5 mins away? In fact, Ashburn is the only location I can think of without immediate connecting CTA service. However, I definitely agree that your idea could be a way to usher riders on to Metra trains (for instance, allowing Jeff Pk riders to take the UPNW into the loop, giving them a faster ride, and freeing up space on the Blue Line for when inbound trains hit Belmont and points south)

[NewFlyerMCI]

https://abc7chicago.com/amp/metra-rock-island-schedule-train/10837984/?ex_cid=TA_WLS_TW&taid=60d960b6bcdfda000143039f&utm_campaign=trueAnthem%3A Trending Content&utm_medium=trueAnthem&utm_source=twitter&__twitter_impression=true
 

Vehicle collision on the RI. Three dead, 41 passengers. Apparently the car was trying to beat the train

[artthouwill]

9 hours ago, NewFlyerMCI said:

https://abc7chicago.com/amp/metra-rock-island-schedule-train/10837984/?ex_cid=TA_WLS_TW&taid=60d960b6bcdfda000143039f&utm_campaign=trueAnthem%3A Trending Content&utm_medium=trueAnthem&utm_source=twitter&__twitter_impression=true
 

Vehicle collision on the RI. Three dead, 41 passengers. Apparently the car was trying to beat the train

Very sad.  One person's bad decision took 3 lives.  Sad.  If I didn't know better,  I would think that was a murder suicide. 

And to think a similar accident happened in East Chicago Saturday morning is crazy.  In this one, I know getting caught by a freight train can be a horrible experience because if heavy freight traffic and the likelihood of having that train stopped because of another train at another junction,  but patience is better than premature death.   I pray I never make a decision that costs an innocent person their life and I pray no one else's bad decisions cost me my life.

[NewFlyerMCI]

2 hours ago, artthouwill said:

Very sad.  One person's bad decision took 3 lives.  Sad.  If I didn't know better,  I would think that was a murder suicide. 

And to think a similar accident happened in East Chicago Saturday morning is crazy.  In this one, I know getting caught by a freight train can be a horrible experience because if heavy freight traffic and the likelihood of having that train stopped because of another train at another junction,  but patience is better than premature death.   I pray I never make a decision that costs an innocent person their life and I pray no one else's bad decisions cost me my life.

I hope it wasn't a m-s. While suicide is a very serious and very sad situation, I've never had much empathy for those who take their life via innocents who have no control over the situation (stepping into traffic, jumping in front of the train, situations like that). PTSD from these kind of incidents is very real and very life-altering. This being a m-s would only make it that much worse. I hope Metra provides thorough support for the train engineer.

[artthouwill]

5 minutes ago, NewFlyerMCI said:

I hope it wasn't a m-s. While suicide is a very serious and very sad situation, I've never had much empathy for those who take their life via innocents who have no control over the situation (stepping into traffic, jumping in front of the train, situations like that). PTSD from these kind of incidents is very real and very life-altering. This being a m-s would only make it that much worse. I hope Metra provides thorough support for the train engineer.

With all of the stores of cars going around lowered gates and getting hit by trains, it is mind-boggling to see that people would think that they can beat a train.  Waiting for a commuter train only delays uou by a minute or two.  A freight train can be a very long time but that’s worst case scenario.   At least Waiting or devouring will get you to your destination safely, albeit late.  Sadly, these people never made it.

Once I had to completely backtrack because I got caught by a freight train along the tracks where the East Chicago accident happened.   The train came to a complete stop and I couldn't cross .  It was a big reroute but I had to do it.  For reference the CSX tracks run from near the E C and Gary casinos west through E.C., Hammond,  Burnham, Riverdale and those tracks intersect with tracks in Hammond and in Riverdale .

[strictures]

1 hour ago, artthouwill said:

With all of the stores of cars going around lowered gates and getting hit by trains, it is mind-boggling to see that people would think that they can beat a train.  Waiting for a commuter train only delays you by a minute or two.  A freight train can be a very long time but that’s worst case scenario.   At least Waiting or devouring will get you to your destination safely, albeit late.  Sadly, these people never made it.

Once I had to completely backtrack because I got caught by a freight train along the tracks where the East Chicago accident happened.   The train came to a complete stop and I couldn't cross .  It was a big reroute but I had to do it.  For reference the CSX tracks run from near the E C and Gary casinos west through E.C., Hammond,  Burnham, Riverdale and those tracks intersect with tracks in Hammond and in Riverdale .

I actually saw a Metracide 11 years ago at Edgebrook.

A few weeks ago, got stopped by a 160 car mixed freight on the Milwaukee North Line at Oakton. I took about 7 minutes to pass by.  No big deal.

[artthouwill]

12 hours ago, NewFlyerMCI said:

https://abc7chicago.com/amp/metra-rock-island-schedule-train/10837984/?ex_cid=TA_WLS_TW&taid=60d960b6bcdfda000143039f&utm_campaign=trueAnthem%3A Trending Content&utm_medium=trueAnthem&utm_source=twitter&__twitter_impression=true
 

Vehicle collision on the RI. Three dead, 41 passengers. Apparently the car was trying to beat the train

It's crazy that a Metra diesel train can travel 79mph through city and suburban neighborhoods at grade level,  but Metra Electric trains traveling above grade and not susceptible to vehicular or pedestrian traffic (branches excluded) can only go a maximum of 55mph.  

Not excusing the actions of the driver, but it's rare to see an express train on that stretch of track during the weekend.   It's possible the driver assumed there was a gate malfunction and didn't realize that there was a real train until they were on the tracks and heard the train horn.  Obviously the better decision was to wait a few minutes to determine if it is a malfunction or a real train. 

[NewFlyerMCI]

2 hours ago, artthouwill said:

It's crazy that a Metra diesel train can travel 79mph through city and suburban neighborhoods at grade level,  but Metra Electric trains traveling above grade and not susceptible to vehicular or pedestrian traffic (branches excluded) can only go a maximum of 55mph.  

Not excusing the actions of the driver, but it's rare to see an express train on that stretch of track during the weekend.   It's possible the driver assumed there was a gate malfunction and didn't realize that there was a real train until they were on the tracks and heard the train horn.  Obviously the better decision was to wait a few minutes to determine if it is a malfunction or a real train. 

ME can only go 55mph max? Is this a limitation of the tracks, the train or self-imposed?

In regards to that trains being on that track, it's actually not. Every since RI switched to that Joliet-BI/BI-LaSalle split service, the 100 series weekend trains use the RIML and not the RISL. The train in the collision was inbound #122, departing from Joliet at 4:15 and Blue Island at 4:56. I'm also fairly certain the evening weekday trains that use the same set up also use the RIML as well (for the trains running express to/from Blue Island)

[strictures]

2 hours ago, artthouwill said:

It's crazy that a Metra diesel train can travel 79mph through city and suburban neighborhoods at grade level,  but Metra Electric trains traveling above grade and not susceptible to vehicular or pedestrian traffic (branches excluded) can only go a maximum of 55mph.  

Not excusing the actions of the driver, but it's rare to see an express train on that stretch of track during the weekend.   It's possible the driver assumed there was a gate malfunction and didn't realize that there was a real train until they were on the tracks and heard the train horn.  Obviously the better decision was to wait a few minutes to determine if it is a malfunction or a real train. 

Some of the villages that have Metra grade crossings have imposed speed limits.  Fox River Grove did after the school bus crash, which was 100% the fault of the school bus driver.  I believe one or two towns on the UP West also have some speed limits.

There is a question as to whether a local government can even legally impose speed limits, but Metra appears to not want to go to court & challenge them.

[artthouwill]

In other news  the Chicago Bears signed an agreement partnership with Rivers Casino as the official sports book sponsor.   Why is this important?  Churchill Downs is 51% owner of Rivers.  

How us this related to Metra?  Churchill Downs is also owner of the Arlington Park Racetrack which is for sale and the Bears are bidding on that property.  Speculation has the Bears on the inside track to win the bid and build a new football stadium on the site.  Metra UPNW gas a station right there.  Imagine express trains from Oglivie to the new stadium.   

[NewFlyerMCI]

39 minutes ago, artthouwill said:

In other news  the Chicago Bears signed an agreement partnership with Rivers Casino as the official sports book sponsor.   Why is this important?  Churchill Downs is 51% owner of Rivers.  

How us this related to Metra?  Churchill Downs is also owner of the Arlington Park Racetrack which is for sale and the Bears are bidding on that property.  Speculation has the Bears on the inside track to win the bid and build a new football stadium on the site.  Metra UPNW gas a station right there.  Imagine express trains from Oglivie to the new stadium.   

Sheesh, that's far. I imagine it'll be handled like the Foxwoods trains the MBTA runs. I could easily see these trains running OTC-Clybourn-Jeff Pk, maybe Des Plaines and Arlington Park if this all happens. I feel like the Bears lose a lot on moving all the way out there however

[Sam92]

1 hour ago, artthouwill said:

In other news  the Chicago Bears signed an agreement partnership with Rivers Casino as the official sports book sponsor.   Why is this important?  Churchill Downs is 51% owner of Rivers.  

How us this related to Metra?  Churchill Downs is also owner of the Arlington Park Racetrack which is for sale and the Bears are bidding on that property.  Speculation has the Bears on the inside track to win the bid and build a new football stadium on the site.  Metra UPNW gas a station right there.  Imagine express trains from Oglivie to the new stadium.   

RIP 128 ?

[artthouwill]

1 hour ago, NewFlyerMCI said:

Sheesh, that's far. I imagine it'll be handled like the Foxwoods trains the MBTA runs. I could easily see these trains running OTC-Clybourn-Jeff Pk, maybe Des Plaines and Arlington Park if this all happens. I feel like the Bears lose a lot on moving all the way out there however

I don't know about that.   For one the Bears can get out of paying rent.   I don't think the Bears get parking revenue at Soldier Field.  A proposed or hypothetical Arlington stadium would seat 15K more fans, not to mention skybox revenues.   While there are great views of downtown Chicago  , crime has taken a toll on visitors to the downtown area.   A lot of people would feel safer in Arlington Heights than downtown.   It's also a closer drive from Lake Forest for Bears players and staff with the majority of them living in the north burbs.

[NewFlyerMCI]

9 hours ago, artthouwill said:

I don't know about that.   For one the Bears can get out of paying rent.   I don't think the Bears get parking revenue at Soldier Field.  A proposed or hypothetical Arlington stadium would seat 15K more fans, not to mention skybox revenues.   While there are great views of downtown Chicago  , crime has taken a toll on visitors to the downtown area.   A lot of people would feel safer in Arlington Heights than downtown.   It's also a closer drive from Lake Forest for Bears players and staff with the majority of them living in the north burbs.

Even if the point about crime is valid, the majority of people taking transit to Soldier Field weren't interacting with it anyway. People were coming downtown to stand outside OTC, CUS or Roosevelt R/O/G for a bus to take them directly to Soldier Field, it's not like they were walking through downtown. Moving to Arlington Heights would cause a drop in people taking transit to Bears games, because then the only people going are taking (the even longer) Pace express to special events and people living along the UPNW. Maybe a shuttle from Rosemont.

The advantage about Soldier Field was that it's centrally located, and in the last couple of years, by my casual observation, more teams have constructed stadiums or moved to places centrally located rather than the opposite. Even the Chicago Fire just moved to Soldier Field.

Anything about the drive for players or the team having to pay rent doesn't matter imo, this is a million-dollar organization with million-dollar players, they'll be fine wherever the stadium is.

[TaylorTank1229]

Quick question:

Yesterday when I was coming back from Harvey visiting family, I was on the Metra Electric and going pass the old 67th street station. It definitely looks as if they change the boarding floors for the platform, like it was new. 2 weeks ago when I was heading to South Chicago from downtown they were tearing off the old platform and I figured they were finally tearing the old place down. But now now I gotta ask, are they reconstructing & planning to reopen that station?

[Sam92]

12 hours ago, TaylorTank1229 said:

Quick question:

Yesterday when I was coming back from Harvey visiting family, I was on the Metra Electric and going pass the old 67th street station. It definitely looks as if they change the boarding floors for the platform, like it was new. 2 weeks ago when I was heading to South Chicago from downtown they were tearing off the old platform and I figured they were finally tearing the old place down. But now now I gotta ask, are they reconstructing & planning to reopen that station?

I want to say no going off the fact that 63rd the next stop up has one of the lowest riderships in the system  but who knows.