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CTA at IRM

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I took a trip out to Union, IL for CTA Day. I took some pics and a couple videos on my cell phone. I thought I would share. They had running Car 41 & 22, 2243-44, a Cta streetcar, along with some other equipment.

http://s290.photobucket.com/user/kenny528/library/CTA%20Day%20June%2021

Damn how did they get #2243-44 running so fast. What did they do mechanically couple it to #2153-54? I notice no lights meaning maybe limited power? Also what car is it that has the same livery as #4271-72? I haven't been out there in several years, something I need to do.

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Damn how did they get #2243-44 running so fast. What did they do mechanically couple it to #2153-54? I notice no lights meaning maybe limited power? Also what car is it that has the same livery as #4271-72? I haven't been out there in several years, something I need to do.

When I went last year, it was mechanically coupled to 2153-2154. The 2000's and 2200's have been coupled together in the past and run together. I think the 2000's could've be coupled to the 2400's, 2600's and 3200's if they were still around today as well.

2299-2300 pulling six 2000-Series card 2/2/73

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... Also what car is it that has the same livery as #4271-72? I haven't been out there in several years, something I need to do.

This picture in the Photobucket shows 1797 on the transom window on the opposite side. That makes it an old Northwestern Elevated wood car. IRM's site has a gallery here.

One of the pictures has a caption that it was restored to appear as it did in 1938. The gallery also has another picture showing that as a result of peeling away the paint, they discovered that the front windows were brown, while later pictures in the gallery show that they received it painted orange.

The picture doesn't show the fleet number of the single unit car, but from the range on the roster, it should have (or originally had) a green interior similar to the cab, instead of a white one.

I'm also surprised that streetcar 1374 wasn't captured.

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Guest ctafan630

I took a trip out to Union, IL for CTA Day. I took some pics and a couple videos on my cell phone. I thought I would share. They had running Car 41 & 22, 2243-44, a Cta streetcar, along with some other equipment.

http://s290.photobucket.com/user/kenny528/library/CTA%20Day%20June%2021

When did IRM get the second set of 2000's? I thought they only had 2153-2154.

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When did IRM get the second set of 2000's? I thought they only had 2153-2154.

Must be very recently, as they are not on the roster, and were statuary at Skokie Shops. But I suppose someone else can give an exact date.

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When I went last year, it was mechanically coupled to 2153-2154. The 2000's and 2200's have been coupled together in the past and run together. I think the 2000's could've be coupled to the 2400's, 2600's and 3200's if they were still around today as well.

2299-2300 pulling six 2000-Series card 2/2/73

The 2000s used to be coupled with the 2600s on the Englewood/Jackson Pk Howard from the early '80s until the south ends of the Lake/Dan Ryan route and the Englewood/Jackson Pk/Howard lines were swapped in 1993 to form the current Green and REd Lines. At that point, the 2000s were retired altogether. I don' t recall seeing 2400s coupled with either 2000s or 2200s, but since both 2000s and 2200s coupled with 2600s as did the 2400s (on Lake/Dan Ryan) I would assume the 2400s would've been able to couple with those as well. I believe all cars from the 2000s through the 3200s were compatable. Someone posted a photo of a Snowflake charter with 2200s, 2400s,2600s, and 3200 series consist.

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.... I believe all cars from the 2000s through the 3200s were compatable. Someone posted a photo of a Snowflake charter with 2200s, 2400s,2600s, and 3200 series consist.

The issue, in this case, however, is that since IRM doesn't have third rail, it wouldn't be able to power the cars without trolley poles* at least without jumpers. It could push them around at small slow rate of speed, which probably is sufficient.

* I wonder, in later years, how they are going to be able to explain the poles on the 2200s.

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This picture in the Photobucket shows 1797 on the transom window on the opposite side. That makes it an old Northwestern Elevated wood car. IRM's site has a gallery here.

One of the pictures has a caption that it was restored to appear as it did in 1938. The gallery also has another picture showing that as a result of peeling away the paint, they discovered that the front windows were brown, while later pictures in the gallery show that they received it painted orange.

The picture doesn't show the fleet number of the single unit car, but from the range on the roster, it should have (or originally had) a green interior similar to the cab, instead of a white one.

I'm also surprised that streetcar 1374 wasn't captured.

Wow, they have made alot of improvements of the vintage "L" cars. Practically all the wood cars have been painted/restored. I wonder what's the difference in cars, are they all from different companies/lines or are they just older/newer. They even painted #6125-26, the hunter green and alpine white livery. I hope one day to see that running. I couldn't help but notice they had a #6000 with the fold up seats in the motorman's cab before #6463-64? I hope they didn't get rid of that. That's like the only existing example of that type of car. Hopefully it's in a barn somewhere.

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Wow, they have made alot of improvements of the vintage "L" cars. Practically all the wood cars have been painted/restored. I wonder what's the difference in cars, are they all from different companies/lines or are they just older/newer....

Some of each. There were 4 series for the 4 original companies:

  • South Side (low numbers)
  • Northwestern [north main and Ravenswood] 1000s
  • Metropolitan [Garfield, Douglas, Logan Square, and Humboldt Park] 2000s
  • Lake St. 3000s.

Each company had its own series, and got the prefixes after they were consolidated by Insull. chicago-l.org 's Wooden Rolling Stock page has the details.

The only unified series was the 4000s, after the consolidation into Chicago Elevated Railways (around 1913). However Krambles's book (page 56) has a picture of 4021 with 'NORTHWESTERN" on the letter board.

The IRM roster indicates most of the wood cars were about 1906 or so, but there is the combination of the 4 companies buying from a whole mess of small carbuilders.

CERA 115 (in the Transit Technology section) mentions such complications as the different types of undercar controllers, different motor philosophies between the companies (Lake St. and Met, having started with electric locomotive cars used bigger motors) and different types of couplers. These didn't make much difference when the companies were running separately, but sure did with through north to south side service (page 220 has a diagram about how the links had to be changed to couple two kinds of cars, as apparently they didn't have knuckle couplers in those days), and there is also a reference on page 215 about car shuffling, in that Lake St. cars used on the north side had north side couplers.

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Damn how did they get #2243-44 running so fast. What did they do mechanically couple it to #2153-54? I notice no lights meaning maybe limited power? Also what car is it that has the same livery as #4271-72? I haven't been out there in several years, something I need to do.

I was talking to one of the volunteers and he was telling me this was only the 3rd time running 2243-44. He said they complete the work about only about a month or so ago. I didn't think I would get to ride it because they had pulled it in for about a hour to troubleshoot an issue.

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The issue, in this case, however, is that since IRM doesn't have third rail, it wouldn't be able to power the cars without trolley poles* at least without jumpers. It could push them around at small slow rate of speed, which probably is sufficient.

* I wonder, in later years, how they are going to be able to explain the poles on the 2200s.

You are correct. Third rail is not practical for obvious reasons. I suspect we will tell them the same thing we tell visitors today - that they never had poles in service, but in order for them to run here we had to add them. There's no difference when you are riding inside them. Historically accurate? Of course not. But it is the difference between walking by and looking up at them sitting somewhere and future generations actually getting to ride them.

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Wow, they have made alot of improvements of the vintage "L" cars. Practically all the wood cars have been painted/restored. I wonder what's the difference in cars, are they all from different companies/lines or are they just older/newer. They even painted #6125-26, the hunter green and alpine white livery. I hope one day to see that running. I couldn't help but notice they had a #6000 with the fold up seats in the motorman's cab before #6463-64? I hope they didn't get rid of that. That's like the only existing example of that type of car. Hopefully it's in a barn somewhere.

Tim Peters has, virtually single-handedly, transformed the wood car fleet into something very special. He is currently working on the 24 (1024). He has made incredible progress over the past couple years. Look for that to join the operating fleet in the near future. If you visit IRM, the car is at the west end of Barn 4 and chances are Tim will also there. He welcomes people asking him questions about the restoration, so stop by and see him on your next visit.

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Did the a/c work on 2243/44? Also, on the bus side related to the museum, Im working on getting a retired CTA RTS 08/96in non lift bus from the Chicago Fire Dept. to possibly donate to IRM.

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Must be very recently, as they are not on the roster, and were statuary at Skokie Shops. But I suppose someone else can give an exact date.

Did IRM also get the frame of crane S314, which sat in front of the two 2000's at Skokie for years, but has now disappeared?

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2153 and 4 are on the roster - and photo albums show their last in service "silver" paint scheme.

http://www.irm.org/cgi-bin/rsearch.cgi?rapid=Chicago+Transit+Authority=2153

http://www.irm.org/cgi-bin/rsearch.cgi?rapid=Chicago+Transit+Authority=2154

I think you may be referring to 2007/8 which were painted in pullman green - as "SouthSide Elevated" 1892-1992. These cars are at IRM - I believe - but their stated intent is to scrap these for parts.

Probably more information than that required - but -

from the Hicks data base - http://www.bera.org/pnaerc.html

2007
HISTORY Chicago Transit Authority 1964 Pullman-Standard (ord#7025) rapid transit car (half of married-pair set) stored inoperable steel AR SE 48'0" 9'4" 12'0" 47400# 47 1999 (1992) 4'8.5" 8 (B-B) 400 CTA-1 [GE 1250K1 (4)] GE SCM-B2C Electric n/a Chicago Transit Authority #2007 1964-1999 / 1st preserved by Pullman Historic Site 1999-2013 / Illinois Railway Museum(Union, Illinois) 2013-present Paired with #2008; lettered South Side Rapid Transit #1892; to be scrapped 2008
PHOTO
PHOTO
HISTORY Chicago Transit Authority 1964 Pullman-Standard (ord#7025) rapid transit car (half of married-pair set) stored inoperable steel AR SE 48'0" 9'4" 12'0" 47400# 51 1999 (1992) 4'8.5" 8 (B-B) 400 CTA-1 [GE 1250K1 (4)] GE SCM-B2C Electric n/a Chicago Transit Authority #2008 1964-1999 / 1st preserved by Pullman Historic Site 1999-2013 / Illinois Railway Museum(Union, Illinois) 2013-present Paired with #2007; lettered South Side Rapid Transit #1992; to be scrapped

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I was told the museum wont be getting the CTA historical buses. #8499 3706 and #301! It is a damn shame!!! Three beatuiful buses even if they are not in running condition. Why wont CTA management donate them???

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Has anyone with knowledge contacted the motor bus curator at IRM?

Maybe its a question of $$$? One of the problems with large items for preservation is housing them in necessarily large buildings. Without taking them out of the weather they rapidly deteriorate - and the cost of moving them, acquiring them is wasted. Does IRM currently have available inside storage for motor buses?


Bob

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When on the farewell tour of the 2400s, I had a conversation with Graham Garfield who told me that in his opinion there was a changing of attitudes about the historic fleet, which is why they are keeping some 2400s. We can only hope that is true and support it in anyway that is possible

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I was told the museum wont be getting the CTA historical buses. #8499 3706 and #301! It is a damn shame!!! Three beatuiful buses even if they are not in running condition. Why wont CTA management donate them???

The question is does the museum want them? The buses were running for the APTA visit, that happened 12-18 months ago, because they were up at Skokie Shops. They must not be in that bad of a condition yet. If CTA don't want them they should just send them over. But yeah I agree the longer they are outside the more they are going to deteriorate.

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When on the farewell tour of the 2400s, I had a conversation with Graham Garfield who told me that in his opinion there was a changing of attitudes about the historic fleet, which is why they are keeping some 2400s. We can only hope that is true and support it in anyway that is possible

Well, the 4000-series Heritage cars are about or approaching 90 years old, which i'm sure keeps the maintenance on the 4000-series very difficult to maintain, so that may be a reason why the cars stay true and near to the Skokie Shops. The 4000s have been maintained very well, but it's beginning to show it's age. I'm sure another heavy duty rehab would be in store for the 4000s to continue to operate (but at what cost?). Even though it would be nice to keep the 4000s forever, understand the 4000s represents a era that many of us didn't even exist and really is a representation of the CRT/early CTA of yesterday. The 2400 Heritage cars represents the modern times of CTA and with the series being freshly retired, the maintenance for the 2400s will be next to nothing to upkeep. I hope not to offend anyone, but the reality is, the 4000 Heritage cars may have seen it's last days in Heritage duty. Sad to say it, but Farewell, Old Friends to the 4000 Heritage Cars, your purpose has been educational, eventful and historical, now lets usher in a new era of Heritage duties to the newly appointed 2400-series Heritage Cars!

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The question is does the museum want them? The buses were running for the APTA visit, that happened 12-18 months ago, because they were up at Skokie Shops. They must not be in that bad of a condition yet. If CTA don't want them they should just send them over. But yeah I agree the longer they are outside the more they are going to deteriorate.

The real question is.... How could the museum NOT want them??? ;) The last time I went there was with our Flxible to fuel it at 77th and that's when I saw the historical buses sitting along the scrap line with some vintage GMC fishbowls and Flx new looks and many other buses ready to scrap. I really hope they end up at IRM. I would hate to find out they were all scrapped! :( Those were some beautiful buses.

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The question is does the museum want them? The buses were running for the APTA visit, that happened 12-18 months ago, because they were up at Skokie Shops. They must not be in that bad of a condition yet. If CTA don't want them they should just send them over. But yeah I agree the longer they are outside the more they are going to deteriorate.

I think we can all agree that certainly adding these buses to the museum collection would be a gem! :) Even if they dont run! :)

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