City of Chicago & CTA

[BusHunter]

Only the paranoids in Chicago say he is focused on Chicago. The Daily Herald says he's screwing the northwest suburbs. Probably he is equal opportunity.

However when you continue to have CTA using the bogus statistic that they provide 81% of the rides in the RTA area, of course they will be complaining more.

Everyone is taking the brunt of the cuts. It's not just one agency. Some suburban areas have had funding pulled from it's parks. Like Jackie Gleason says on the Honeymooners "we're going to have to cut back on all this lavish living"

The question is has the state agencies been doing some lofty spending? Why are we in such a debt? Is it responsible to want live within the state's budget. As far as the RTA, I think it's really time to explore free rides for seniors, because any free ride is not good in a business sense and the agencies simply can't afford it anymore. It's either that or lose some of your operations and that's not good for anyone.

[Busjack]

....

The question is has the state agencies been doing some lofty spending? Why are we in such a debt? Is it responsible to want live within the state's budget. ....

With the reports of such things as day care and court reporters running out of funds, it isn't clear whether this is like 2009 and the state legislature passed an unconstitutional budget in that the state couldn't meet appropriations and thus left vendors unpaid, or they only appropriated for 9 of 12 months, thereby making the budget constitutional, but didn't pass either the taxes or the appropriations for the remaining 3 months.

....As far as the RTA, I think it's really time to explore free rides for seniors, because any free ride is not good in a business sense and the agencies simply can't afford it anymore. It's either that or lose some of your operations and that's not good for anyone.

Problem is that these were written into the MTA, RTA, and MTD acts by Blago's amendatory veto is a condition of him signing the 2008 RTA Act, so the RTA can't abolish them unilaterally. The legislature could amend them, such as when it did when it said one had to be on the circuit breaker or pharmaceutical benefit plans to get a free ride RTA Pass, but I don't think that is one voting block the legislators want to offend.

As I mentioned before, the only federal requirements are paratransit within 3/4 mile of fixed route and not more than twice the fare as regular, and senior half fare rides only off rush hour. Currently ADA fare is $3.00, and could be raised to $4.50 in Chicago and to $3.50 in the suburbs. but can you imagine the political stink that would cause? So Rep. Nekritz just says paratransit and seniors are mandated by the feds.

[BusHunter]

There was kind of an interesting link on Chicago-l.org on WTTW's Chicago Tonight talking about the projected 130 million dollar deficit the CTA would have to overcome. If you watch the video in the story Tammy Chase says that if they just did a fare increase they would have to raise fares to $3 from $2.25 or if they just did bus cuts they would have to cut 20 percent of the service. CTA has 125 routes, so that translates to roughly 22 routes. No doubt that would eliminate another garage. If they did both which is what they are alluding to, they would probably raise fares half way to 2/3 (either $2.50 to $2.75 max) and eliminate 11 routes. At least that's what it sounds like will happen. Now then what 11 routes would they eliminate?

Well here's the link to the story

http://chicagotonight.wttw.com/2015/03/19/impact-proposed-transit-funding-cuts

[Busjack]

There was kind of an interesting link on Chicago-l.org on WTTW's Chicago Tonight talking about the projected 130 million dollar deficit the CTA would have to overcome. If you watch the video in the story Tammy Chase says that if they just did a fare increase they would have to raise fares to $3 from $2.25 or if they just did bus cuts they would have to cut 20 percent of the service. CTA has 125 routes, so that translates to roughly 22 routes. No doubt that would eliminate another garage. If they did both which is what they are alluding to, they would probably raise fares half way to 2/3 (either $2.50 to $2.75 max) and eliminate 11 routes. At least that's what it sounds like will happen. Now then what 11 routes would they eliminate?

Well here's the link to the story

http://chicagotonight.wttw.com/2015/03/19/impact-proposed-transit-funding-cuts

Aside from Chase not being credible (remember what I said about fuzzy numbers in the Tribune), CTA did do a 20% bus cut in 2010. Other than X routes being put back into the regular routes, there weren't any routes cut, but all took the 20% hit. A garage did close though.

Similarly, their fare accounting is suspect, because while Emanuel said when he took office he wasn't going to raise fares,he then said "not the $2.25 fare." Fares generally went up, first with the restructuring of passes, and then via various Ventra tricks, such as "bank card counts only as cash and you don't get transfers" and "a Ventra ticket has a mandatory transfer charge." $3.00 doesn't sound that bad to me, but given that they said that only about 6% of fares are cash fares, you wonder why Emanuel was initially lying about no fare increase, and what they actually would do with passes. For instance, it would be a big bite if a 30 day pass went up from $100 to $140, but Chase wasn't saying that.

I have the feeling that the 2015 budget was on the basis that Emanuel could run again on "no fare increase," but the runoff and Rauner put a crimp into those plans. Similar to his "Chuy will raise property taxes" ad, except it appears Emanuel will have to, too.

[NewFlyerMCI]

There was kind of an interesting link on Chicago-l.org on WTTW's Chicago Tonight talking about the projected 130 million dollar deficit the CTA would have to overcome. If you watch the video in the story Tammy Chase says that if they just did a fare increase they would have to raise fares to $3 from $2.25 or if they just did bus cuts they would have to cut 20 percent of the service. CTA has 125 routes, so that translates to roughly 22 routes. No doubt that would eliminate another garage. If they did both which is what they are alluding to, they would probably raise fares half way to 2/3 (either $2.50 to $2.75 max) and eliminate 11 routes. At least that's what it sounds like will happen. Now then what 11 routes would they eliminate?

Well here's the link to the story

http://chicagotonight.wttw.com/2015/03/19/impact-proposed-transit-funding-cuts

They might not cut some routes but maybe consolidate them. However, here is my list of possible routes. These are based off of ridership stats as of Nov. 2014, the most recent available. I have avoided contracted services (stadium routes, popular destinations routes, hyde park routes, etc)

165* (74th)

55A* (74th)

N5 (103rd)

55N* (74th)

100 (103rd)

96 (NP)

205** (NP)

85A (NP)

54A** (FG)

62H* (74th)

206** (NP)

*: Might be consolidated with another route

**: That could be given to Pace

[Busjack]

...

**: That could be given to Pace

Which gets to the question that if it is Mayor Rahm Emanuel's CTA. what are they doing running Evanston bus routes? That question has been around before him, about 12 years now. I don't know how the funding formula impacts that, but the Auditor General said that the lowest cost operator should operate in cases of contention, and it is not CTA.

54A is a strange bird in that it runs about equally between Chicago and the suburbs. Pace used to run 254 on Saturdays, but dropped it, the consultant's stated rationale is that "we don't give better service on weekends than is provided on weekdays," even though Saturday ridership was o.k. at about 500.

On 55A and 55N, CTA had a proposal to make it one West 59th route (not cross the rail line), but that never happened. Someone here said that the alderman shot it down, which I suppose is a problem for the CTA, except when they can dump on the 47th Ward. But Pawar reportedly just endorsed Emanuel.

[artthouwill]

What I would cut:

1 Bronzeville/Union Station

18 16/18 weekend service

28 Stony Island downtown trips

30 S Chicago trips north of 92nd except for school trips

35 31/35th trips west of Kedzie

39 Pershing weekend experiment

43 43rd trips west of REd Line

59 59/61st trips east of Garfield Red Line

62H Archer/Harflem

85A North Central

100 Jeffery Manor Express

108 HALSTED/95TH

157 Streeterville/Taylor midday trips west of Union Station

Metra:

Midday and Saturday S Chicago ME trains reduced to 2 hr service

Saturday ME Blue Island service eliminated

Saturday ME Main Line service reduced to 2 hr service AND makes flag stops north of Kensington

[Busjack]

....

Metra:

Midday and Saturday S Chicago ME trains reduced to 2 hr service

Saturday ME Blue Island service eliminated

Saturday ME Main Line service reduced to 2 hr service AND makes flag stops north of Kensington

Arguable whether there should be Blue Island service at all, except to the extent it serves 59th to Kensington.

If that's the reason why you suggested main line makes flag stops, o.k., but they still have to run the train. Cutting the train to once every two hours is going to start cries of racism, although most of the north suburban lines run every two hours midday.

[NewFlyerMCI]

What I would cut:

1 Bronzeville/Union Station

18 16/18 weekend service

28 Stony Island downtown trips

30 S Chicago trips north of 92nd except for school trips

35 31/35th trips west of Kedzie

39 Pershing weekend experiment

43 43rd trips west of REd Line

59 59/61st trips east of Garfield Red Line

62H Archer/Harflem

85A North Central

100 Jeffery Manor Express

108 HALSTED/95TH

157 Streeterville/Taylor rush hour trips west of Union Station

Metra:

Midday and Saturday S Chicago ME trains reduced to 2 hr service

Saturday ME Blue Island service eliminated

Saturday ME Main Line service reduced to 2 hr service AND makes flag stops north of Kensington

1: Talk to Bronzeville, I'm pretty sure they are the reason it's still there.

18: I can't speak to this, except to say that CTA thought it was necessary and is a useful counterpart to the 60

28: There is still demand apparently, if that was created after the demise of the X28

30: Maybe reduce the amount of trips, but as someone who used to take the 30 in that area, no. Also, I'm pretty sure at least 1/3 of the ridership is from that segment

35: There is demand for that, that was created for a reason

43: That is so short, there is no point. Now, the whole route is another discussion

59: Hyde Park might raise complaints about there quieter, possibly quicker way to Midway. There is also demand.

108: Only if Carver Military agrees to give their trips over to 8A or 34. And for the 108, roughly 1400 passengers should be sufficient demand to keep that there

157: 1st the 38, then the 37, then the 157. CTA (and myself) believes that that specific portion of routing is necessary for service. And you are removing the best way for surburbanite doctors to get to Og/Union.

[artthouwill]

1: Talk to Bronzeville, I'm pretty sure they are the reason it's still there.

18: I can't speak to this, except to say that CTA thought it was necessary and is a useful counterpart to the 60

28: There is still demand apparently, if that was created after the demise of the X28

30: Maybe reduce the amount of trips, but as someone who used to take the 30 in that area, no. Also, I'm pretty sure at least 1/3 of the ridership is from that segment

35: There is demand for that, that was created for a reason

43: That is so short, there is no point. Now, the whole route is another discussion

59: Hyde Park might raise complaints about there quieter, possibly quicker way to Midway. There is also demand.

108: Only if Carver Military agrees to give their trips over to 8A or 34. And for the 108, roughly 1400 passengers should be sufficient demand to keep that there

157: 1st the 38, then the 37, then the 157. CTA (and myself) believes that that specific portion of routing is necessary for service. And you are removing the best way for surburbanite doctors to get to Og/Union.

As far as the 1 Bronzeville, the 4 also runs along most of that route, so there is duplication there.

The 18 has very low ridership, except those that use it along Roosevelt.

There is little ridership from the West Loop for the 28 and the majority of Hyde Park residents still use the 2 or the 6

As one who used the 35 31/35th I assure you there is low ridership along the 31st corridor.

The 61st st portion of the route is two blocks north of a much heavier used 63rd St route going to the same place. The fact that this route has 20 minute frequencies tells you there is not much demand for the entire route.

Certainly CArver trips can be added to the 8A and the 34

I've only seen heavy ridership along the west portion of the 157 during peak periods which I proposed to keep.

[strictures]

What I would cut:

157 Streeterville/Taylor rush hour trips west of Union Station

157 has huge UIC student ridership much of the day, as I do use it from Olgilvie to UIC Med Clinics at various hours.

[busfan2847]

I've only seen heavy ridership along the west portion of the 157 during peak periods which I proposed to keep.

Actually you wrote the opposite:-

157 Streeterville/Taylor rush hour trips west of Union Station

I agree with stricture between east and west campuses of UIC the 157 has heavy ridership all day

[busfan2847]

157: 1st the 38, then the 37, then the 157. CTA (and myself) believes that that specific portion of routing is necessary for service. And you are removing the best way for surburbanite doctors to get to Og/Union.

Actually 37 first then 38 then 157 west of Union Station

[BusHunter]

Since we are saying what we would cut, I'll bite. I would cut #24, #39, #55A, #59, #62H, #88, #100, #120, #121, #165, #206. Maybe if we wanted to save a few routes we could cut #134 and #143 as they don't really save alot of time. They could bring back #59 and either #24 or #39.

[NewFlyerMCI]

As far as the 1 Bronzeville, the 4 also runs along most of that route, so there is duplication there.

The 18 has very low ridership, except those that use it along Roosevelt.

There is little ridership from the West Loop for the 28 and the majority of Hyde Park residents still use the 2 or the 6

As one who used the 35 31/35th I assure you there is low ridership along the 31st corridor.

The 61st st portion of the route is two blocks north of a much heavier used 63rd St route going to the same place. The fact that this route has 20 minute frequencies tells you there is not much demand for the entire route.

Certainly CArver trips can be added to the 8A and the 34

I've only seen heavy ridership along the west portion of the 157 during peak periods which I proposed to keep.

1 & 28: That is true, but the 2, 4 and 6 stay along State and Michigan and the 2 has really specific service pattern. The 1 & 28 serve other parts of downtown and Union Station and only during rush

59: 61st St portion. There is still a wide open 59th St btwn the Dan and Cicero (Kilpatrick). And yes, there is demand, because if you live around 59th st, 55th (11,000 riders on a weekday) and 63rd (17,100 riders on a weekday) might be farther away than some people are willing to walk, even if the 59 only has 3,900 riders on a weekday.

157: You actually wrote the opposite of that

[NewFlyerMCI]

Since we are saying what we would cut, I'll bite. I would cut #24, #39, #55A, #59, #62H, #88, #100, #120, #121, #165, #206. Maybe if we wanted to save a few routes we could cut #134 and #143 as they don't really save alot of time. They could bring back #59 and either #24 or #39.

There are plenty of routes that can be cut before 24, 39 and 59, some of which are on that list. 43, 37 and although it saddens me, the 11. There is the 96 and even the 68. I do agree with you on the 100, that has actually seen decline from about 1000 passengers (Nov 2012) to 770 (Nov 2013) to 660 (Nov 2014).

[jajuan]

As I noted above, the mendicants suddenly recognize each other when suddenly their aid might be cut. As Rauner's spokesperson pointed out, reform is certainly in order, and I pointed out that maybe the Fitzgerald Task Force should not be considered as dead on arrival as Emanuel categorized it. Or maybe Rauner read the "more bus moves" thread.

I saw a lot of number fudging in that article, like that the cut was equivalent to so many L boardings.

Let's also remember that when we went through the 2006-7 Doomsday, the extent of necessary cuts (such as running a 7 day Sunday schedule) claimed was bogus, and when cuts were really necessary in 2010, they were to a lesser extent.

To get it back to the topic here, apparently neither Emanuel nor Garcia has any answer to the fact that the fiscal clock has run out.

And as far as "the unions have nothing to do with this," how is it that a teachers' union lobbyist got a pension, and then has the nerve to sue when it is cut, claiming rights under the Pension Clause? Isn't even fraud a defense to a contract? Maybe Lisa can figure that out.

And maybe someone should walk to school. School runs, being profitable, usually aren't cut by the transit authorities around here, anyway.

I never said unions have absolute zero effect on the budget, I said not all of the budget woes the state is facing is all on the unions as the governor is trying to paint it to be and that some of the decisions made that contributed to the current mess had little or nothing to do with the unions as the governor is painting it out to be in what's obviously his opening shot across the bow to the legislature that he'll need to negotiate with to get any of his proposed cuts to pass. Complete and total difference in meaning. And maybe someone may sound nice in theory, but that doesn't work if you're not traveling two miles or more to school which a lot of students who take public transit to school in both the city and burbs are doing especially when we're talking about the high school kids here in the part of the state covered by RTA.

[Busjack]

... a lot of students who take public transit to school in both the city and burbs are doing especially when we're talking about the high school kids here in the part of the state covered by RTA.

One thing we learned from say routes 240 and 241--Pace does not cut its school trips. I don't think anyone can find an instance of that.

There are also a whole lot of students riding the yellow school buses (such as Alltown, First Student, etc.).

[jajuan]

I googled some past budgets to see what CTA does when they have a $100 million dollar deficit. There's everything from doomsday budgets of 2007 to no cuts at all, although that may have been when alot of point supervisors were cut or cuts in administration. There's no doubt going to be a fare increase but I don't really know what they can cut for service. There's not much left to cut.

All the discussion that's sprouted off on what to cut kind of gets to my point I made recently and quite some time before Rauner even became governor that there really isn't much left to cut and that any cuts made now is just going to send ridership into even more of the downward spiral that they don't want to happen.

As far as the 1 Bronzeville, the 4 also runs along most of that route, so there is duplication there.

The 18 has very low ridership, except those that use it along Roosevelt.

There is little ridership from the West Loop for the 28 and the majority of Hyde Park residents still use the 2 or the 6

As one who used the 35 31/35th I assure you there is low ridership along the 31st corridor.

The 61st st portion of the route is two blocks north of a much heavier used 63rd St route going to the same place. The fact that this route has 20 minute frequencies tells you there is not much demand for the entire route.

Certainly CArver trips can be added to the 8A and the 34

I've only seen heavy ridership along the west portion of the 157 during peak periods which I proposed to keep.

Art, I have to disagree with you about the downtown express trips on the 28. Every time I ride it on Jackson leaving Union Station in PM rush, mos of the eats are full after getting a couple of stops from Union and it's full and gets into standing room only territory once it's at State or Michigan. So there is definitely demand outside of the 2 and 6 for this one. And as others said, 157 gets huge UIC and Medical District use to go with what use it gets from riders who only use it within the bounds of downtown. As for your mention of #59 headways, I think that what some have been saying about the #86's ridership due to Wright College should be proof enough that just because a route has a longer headway time doesn't necessarily or automatically mean higher demand isn't there for its services. We might disagree on how much to put the ax to different services, but it is true that money isn't there for everything we want and need. So maybe it just so happens somehow 59 sits on a list of things they might want to expand but still fear taking the risk given the shaky funding. Just look at now how they made moves to experiment with areas to expand and the governor now wants to make big ridiculous cuts.

One thing we learned from say routes 240 and 241--Pace does not cut its school trips. I don't think anyone can find an instance of that.

There are also a whole lot of students riding the yellow school buses (such as Alltown, First Student, etc.).

Your point brings up the larger question of why so few high schools use yellow school buses these days compared to past times. But it's not something that's unique to Chicago and its burbs when looking at TAs in other cities and towns of different states and seeing that they have a significant number of school trippers among their routes as well. Heck they even have them as part of service on the Champaign-Urbana Mass Transit District.

[Busjack]

...

Your point brings up the larger question of why so few high schools use yellow school buses these days compared to past times. But it's not something that's unique to Chicago and its burbs when looking at TAs in other cities and towns of different states and seeing that they have a significant number of school trippers among their routes as well. Heck they even have them as part of service on the Champaign-Urbana Mass Transit District.

Sort of regardless of whether the parents have to pay one way or the other.

The only documented instance was Waukegan, where Pace said the school district decided to start buying passes, so Pace reinstated the 566 and the various other high school variants.

[NewFlyerMCI]

...

Your point brings up the larger question of why so few high schools use yellow school buses these days compared to past times. But it's not something that's unique to Chicago and its burbs when looking at TAs in other cities and towns of different states and seeing that they have a significant number of school trippers among their routes as well. Heck they even have them as part of service on the Champaign-Urbana Mass Transit District.

DC's amount of school buses longer than 35ft has decreased, especially since about 5-7 years ago DDOT, DDOE and WMATA entered into an agreement to have specific bus routes serve some high schools (and a few middle/elementary). Some school have the extra/shortened trips thing, but only outside the District or if there aren't enough student riders to justify having an exclusive boundary. These routes will either have multiple branches that serve the boundary, the nearest train station, or in the case of one school, the area where the majority of their student body is.

For example:

-> McKinley Technology High School is a selective high school. They have the M31, which takes students to Rhode Island Ave Station (1 of 2 close stations). So many kids ride, they have to take two of the artics of the X2 (the 6 here) to support it. Bladenburg Yard (77th here) runs the X2 and has enough artics (14) to support it during the height of rush hour.

-> Duke Ellington is a selective school as well. However, 93% of their student body lives in Congress Heights area, in SE. The school is in Georgetown. Thusly, their bus originates at Congress Heights Sta and goes all the way to their school. The equivalent here would be having a bus start at 69th, travel along State until Roosevelt, then take Lake Shore Drive and various streets until reaching Lincoln Park High School

-> Other such schools, just have branch routes serving where the majority of student riders live or within the boundary.

[artthouwill]

All the discussion that's sprouted off on what to cut kind of gets to my point I made recently and quite some time before Rauner even became governor that there really isn't much left to cut and that any cuts made now is just going to send ridership into even more of the downward spiral that they don't want to happen.

Art, I have to disagree with you about the downtown express trips on the 28. Every time I ride it on Jackson leaving Union Station in PM rush, mos of the eats are full after getting a couple of stops from Union and it's full and gets into standing room only territory once it's at State or Michigan. So there is definitely demand outside of the 2 and 6 for this one. And as others said, 157 gets huge UIC and Medical District use to go with what use it gets from riders who only use it within the bounds of downtown. As for your mention of #59 headways, I think that what some have been saying about the #86's ridership due to Wright College should be proof enough that just because a route has a longer headway time doesn't necessarily or automatically mean higher demand isn't there for its services. We might disagree on how much to put the ax to different services, but it is true that money isn't there for everything we want and need. So maybe it just so happens somehow 59 sits on a list of things they might want to expand but still fear taking the risk given the shaky funding. Just look at now how they made moves to experiment with areas to expand and the governor now wants to make big ridiculous cuts.

I was downtown Friday evening at 5p.m. I observed a standing room only 2 Hyde Park Express followed by a decent loaded artic on the 26 South Shore Express followed by a near empty 28 soon followed by another decently loaded 2. This was near the Museum Campus on Columbus just south of Roosevelt. There were 2 146 artics mixed in also. Over the years that the 28 in some form was coming downtown, whether as just an observant or actual passenger, the emptier 28s were more the rule than the exception I have never seen a standing room only 28 at State/Jackson though I have seen that on the 6 even with an articulated bus. Yet I still see this as a cut candidate if CTA actually starts proposing cuts in service.

As for the 157, my personal off peak rides didn't reflect a huge ridership to UIC, though I concede that that was the largest contingent on my rides. The 60 covers a similar area. I think this is a route that either sees a total cut or no cut at all. It will be interesting.

The 86, which I didn't propose any cut, is a wierd route. Its highest ridership is on the north end of the route, mainly because of WRight College. Once you get south of Grand, it's virtually empty. There is little ridership between the Green Line and North Ave. I think I've seen more than 10 people ride that portion of the route once, and that was because our bus was running so late, his follower was pulling up as we left Ridgeland Grfeen Line station.

[juelzkellz]

One suggestion I have is a big one, eliminating owl service on the Red and Blue lines. Have the #29 run all night on the Dan Ryan section and bring back the #151 owl service and extend it to Howard. The #22 and the #151 overnight should cover the North end of the Red Line sufficiently overnight. On the Blue Line, extend the #20 to Forest Park and maybe add owl service to the #12 and extend that to Forest Park for additional coverage purposes. On the north section of the Blue Line, bring back owl service on the #56 and extend that to either the O'hare Kiss and Fly or the O'hare Hilton hotel bus stop. If there's too much noise about the Blue Line not running to O'hare, a compromise could be made so that the #56 still runs overnight between downtown and Jefferson Park and the Blue Line runs a shuttle between Jefferson Park and O'hare. I think the bus would be sufficient though.

I think this is a good idea because at night, most of the people on the trains are homeless people and the paying riders could be more efficiently covered by bus service. Also, there's virtually no traffic at night so the buses will be just as fast if not faster than the train at a substantially cheaper cost. CTA also saves money on maintenance on the trains because they won't be constantly running. Most major cities don't have overnight service on their trains so this isn't a new concept.

[artthouwill]

One suggestion I have is a big one, eliminating owl service on the Red and Blue lines. Have the #29 run all night on the Dan Ryan section and bring back the #151 owl service and extend it to Howard. The #22 and the #151 overnight should cover the North end of the Red Line sufficiently overnight. On the Blue Line, extend the #20 to Forest Park and maybe add owl service to the #12 and extend that to Forest Park for additional coverage purposes. On the north section of the Blue Line, bring back owl service on the #56 and extend that to either the O'hare Kiss and Fly or the O'hare Hilton hotel bus stop. If there's too much noise about the Blue Line not running to O'hare, a compromise could be made so that the #56 still runs overnight between downtown and Jefferson Park and the Blue Line runs a shuttle between Jefferson Park and O'hare. I think the bus would be sufficient though.

I think this is a good idea because at night, most of the people on the trains are homeless people and the paying riders could be more efficiently covered by bus service. Also, there's virtually no traffic at night so the buses will be just as fast if not faster than the train at a substantially cheaper cost. CTA also saves money on maintenance on the trains because they won't be constantly running. Most major cities don't have overnight service on their trains so this isn't a new concept.

Me thinks eliminating owl service on the Red and Blue Lines is a very bad idea. However, I would probably suggest running owl service on the Red Line in 20 minute intervals as opposed to 15. That eliminates 2 trains per hour.

A local bus will never be as fast as a train. Trains can run up to 55 mph, something you couldn't do on State St ever. Cutting owl service just puts people in cars. Some jobs, especially those at or around ORD require being at work at or before 5.a.m. and that owl service is necessary to get those people to those jobs

[Busjack]

DC's amount of school buses longer than 35ft has decreased, especially since about 5-7 years ago DDOT, DDOE and WMATA entered into an agreement to have specific bus routes serve some high schools (and a few middle/elementary)....

Bypassing the details, of which I don't claim to be aware, most of these get down to the FTA school bus regs, which essentially state that a school tripper is not supposed to deviate too far from the fixed route, or it is unfair competition to the private school bus operators. About the only place that was tested was Rochester, N.Y., where the school bus company won, but it didn't mean too much, as RGRTA just established the X system of buses that sort of run along the comparable fixed routes, but vary timewise depending on whether school gets out late on Wednesday, for instance.

The 86, which I didn't propose any cut, is a wierd route. Its highest ridership is on the north end of the route, mainly because of WRight College. Once you get south of Grand, it's virtually empty. There is little ridership between the Green Line and North Ave. I think I've seen more than 10 people ride that portion of the route once, and that was because our bus was running so late, his follower was pulling up as we left Ridgeland Grfeen Line station.

That gets back to the point NewFlyerMCI made somewhat earlier in that maybe 86 ought to be restricted to the North-Naragansett loop and Pace 315 either extended or reinstated to North Ave.

One suggestion I have is a big one, eliminating owl service on the Red and Blue lines.....Most major cities don't have overnight service on their trains so this isn't a new concept.

At one time, CTA had owl on most L lines, while most other cities (I remember WMATA) did not, so you are correct. L might have been more efficient at one time, but I tend to agree with you it doesn't appear so now, at least with the need for a Customer Assistant at each open station, as opposed to a conductor collecting on the train. As you note, the O'Hare branch has some problems, but they could be overcome.

The other thing that supports this is that there isn't any connecting transit service running owl from the Harlem, Cumberland, or Rosemont stations (some after midnight service on 223 is about it).