5000-series - Updates

[jajuan]

It looks like the 4 car trains they were running on the Pink line was a success. Yesterday they were running five 4 car trains and three 6 car ones in the evening rush. Looks like they'll be transferring more #5000's to Green line soon. (they may go back to 44 cars total on the Pink Line) BTW, I read in the Tribune yesterday, (for some reason part of that article is edited online) that they want to increase the fleet by 76 cars. This way they can add 2 to 3 trains per line barring the Pink and Yellow line. I haven't yet done the math, but if so it may be difficult to get the #5000's to all the lines they originally proposed. In saying that the chance of the Blue line getting #3200's may have just flew out the window. Those cars could end up on the Purple line. I was thinking by increasing the fleet by 76 cars, CTA would protect themselves from another car purchase if/when the 130th Red line extension opens. That extension calls for 84 cars. That's only an 8 car difference.

I noticed the same thing as the Pink Line train I rode Friday morning was a 4 car consist and from all appearances since it was the start of the midday period, all the Pinks at that time appeared to all be 4 car trains. Could we be seeing 4 car consists of 5000s on the Green in the near future? The 5000 consists on the Green were still 6 cars long.

[RJL6000]

If the Pink Line goes back to 44 cars or even 50 cars, then the Green Line would need at least its old, pre-2010 amount of 120 cars if the CTA were to add additional train runs on most of the lines (as promised by this December). So, by this coming Monday's AM rush period, we should see at least half (maybe even more) of all Green Line runs to be made up of 5000s.

[BusHunter]

If the Pink Line goes back to 44 cars or even 50 cars, then the Green Line would need at least its old, pre-2010 amount of 120 cars if the CTA were to add additional train runs on most of the lines (as promised by this December). So, by this coming Monday's AM rush period, we should see at least half (maybe even more) of all Green Line runs to be made up of 5000s.

The Green line seems to have pretty close to the same amount of cars they had last week. (the only thing new I saw was #5065-66) Maybe there hanging on to the Pink line cars a little longer, to see what happens with all 4 car trains on the pink line. The Green line was running 4 car service yesterday, except for the #5000's, which still have 6 car consists. After they are confident the Pink Line's alright, we will see the Green line go to 4 car #5000 service. It just seems like it's a question of will there be one four car train or will they put them all out at once? If they could get 4 car service going for the Green line on the weekend or off peak, they may only need #2400's soon only for the rush hour. (but they would need about 50 #5000 cars to do that) but if the Pink transfers over 20 cars that's possible.

[artthouwill]

Today, 5000s on Pink Line are.4 cars long, 5000s on Green Line are 6 cars long.

[chicagopcclcar]

In Monday's edition of the Chicago Tribune, Jon Hilkevitch, their transportation writer again reiterated the assignment order for the 5000 series 'L' cars. Pink, Green, followed by Red. Along with Red will be Purple and Yellow. Last will be Orange in late 2014.

Jon's article also blasted the CTA for their choice of seating in the 5000s. Jon recommended that President Forrest Claypool at least order 100 cars with more traditional seating, perhaps like the 3200s.

David Harrison

[Busjack]

In Monday's edition of the Chicago Tribune, Jon Hilkevitch, their transportation writer again reiterated the assignment order for the 5000 series 'L' cars. Pink, Green, followed by Red. Along with Red will be Purple and Yellow. Last will be Orange in late 2014.

Jon's article also blasted the CTA for their choice of seating in the 5000s. Jon recommended that President Forrest Claypool at least order 100 cars with more traditional seating, perhaps like the 3200s.

David Harrison

I saw that, but if you move the about 100 3200s off the Orange Line to the Blue Line, it doesn't have enough to operate except with 2600s. So, the article didn't add up, to the extent that it stated "(The Blue and Brown Lines, by the way, will not receive the 5000 Series trains. Those lines will operate with the existing 3200 Series cars, which are the CTA's second-newest cars and will undergo rehabs to upgrade them to "like-new condition," CTA officials said.)"

[chicagopcclcar]

I saw that, but if you move the about 100 3200s off the Orange Line to the Blue Line, it doesn't have enough to operate except with 2600s. So, the article didn't add up, to the extent that it stated "(The Blue and Brown Lines, by the way, will not receive the 5000 Series trains. Those lines will operate with the existing 3200 Series cars, which are the CTA's second-newest cars and will undergo rehabs to upgrade them to "like-new condition," CTA officials said.)"

i see them making a pool of the 3200s both from the Orange and the Brown. As 3200s from the Orange are replaced, they go to mid-life rehab. When they return from midlife, they go to the Brown so that those go to mid-life rehab. The Blue will at all times have only 2600s. The CTA can scrap the surplus 2600s, store them for future use and fleet enlargement, pool them for a second mid-life rehab. So I don't see Orange 3200s going to the Blue line at all.

David Harrison

[Busjack]

i see them making a pool of the 3200s both from the Orange and the Brown. As 3200s from the Orange are replaced, they go to mid-life rehab. When they return from midlife, they go to the Brown so that those go to mid-life rehab. The Blue will at all times have only 2600s. The CTA can scrap the surplus 2600s, store them for future use and fleet enlargement, pool them for a second mid-life rehab. So I don't see Orange 3200s going to the Blue line at all.

As far as the "Those lines will operate with the existing 3200 Series cars" that apparently won't be the case, which is what I meant by that they don't add up.

[chicagopcclcar]

By the time 2015 and 2016 when the 3200s finish rehab, the CTA Red might be going to 130th St. Also the Red might be extended to ten car trains. The Purple might be running full time and be in the State St.subway. Lots of possibilities. Maybe the Republicans never win and there's money for 2600 replacements. There's lots of uses for the extra 'L' cars. We'll wait and see but we have a pretty definite schedule as far out as 2014.

David Harrison

[artthouwill]

In Monday's edition of the Chicago Tribune, Jon Hilkevitch, their transportation writer again reiterated the assignment order for the 5000 series 'L' cars. Pink, Green, followed by Red. Along with Red will be Purple and Yellow. Last will be Orange in late 2014.

Jon's article also blasted the CTA for their choice of seating in the 5000s. Jon recommended that President Forrest Claypool at least order 100 cars with more traditional seating, perhaps like the 3200s.

David Harrison

That will be good for Red Line riders but it flies in the face what they said about using new equipment on the south leg of the line. What's the point if slow zones are going to increase between now.and.May and the new cars are heavier than the 2600s?

[chicagopcclcar]

That will be good for Red Line riders but it flies in the face what they said about using new equipment on the south leg of the line. What's the point if slow zones are going to increase between now.and.May and the new cars are heavier than the 2600s?

Where does this story about not using 5000s on the Red line because of the present track conditions come from?

David Harrison

[CURRENTZ_09]

I was assuming (and Really hoping) that the Blue Line would get the 5000-series but to No availability?

#Real Disappointed

[CURRENTZ_09]

By the time 2015 and 2016 when the 3200s finish rehab, the CTA Red might be going to 130th St. Also the Red might be extended to ten car trains. The Purple might be running full time and be in the State St.subway. Lots of possibilities. Maybe the Republicans never win and there's money for 2600 replacements. There's lots of uses for the extra 'L' cars. We'll wait and see but we have a pretty definite schedule as far out as 2014.

David Harrison

Better vote for the politican who's gonna make that happen then

[artthouwill]

Where does this story about not using 5000s on the Red line because of the present track conditions come from?

David Harrison

On the flyers CTA gave out at the Dan Ryan public.hearings, it stated that if the project would take place on weekends only %as opposed to the 5 month shutdown) they would have to continue running the older cars on that line instead of the new.

[chicagopcclcar]

On the flyers CTA gave out at the Dan Ryan public.hearings, it stated that if the project would take place on weekends only %as opposed to the 5 month shutdown) they would have to continue running the older cars on that line instead of the new.

Thanks for your response.

The current "handout" version and the website version don't seem to have that exact phrase.

How will this benefit Red Line riders?

New tracks will improve travel times and increase reliability for the tens of thousands of riders who use

the Dan Ryan Branch each day.

Around 40 percent of the Dan Ryan Branch includes slow zones, meaning trains — and the people on them —

get to their destinations much more slowly. With so many rides originating or ending on the

Red Line, these delays affect the entire system. When this project is complete, customers will enjoy faster,

smoother, more reliable rides.

Additionally, the station improvements will enhance the customer experience, and the new elevators at Gar-

field, 63rd and 87th will make those stations fully accessible.

The project will create hundreds of jobs, and the CTA is working closely with community officials to

promote contracting and employment opportunities.

The five-month construction option will save as much as $75 million over the option to perform the work on

weekends only. That $75 million savings will be reinvested into station upgrades along the South Red Line—

including three new elevators, painting, new lighting and other upgrades—and will help CTA

provide alternative service during construction.

A weekends-only option would take four years to complete, and would be confusing and dif-

ficult for riders to adapt to. It would also impact tens of thousands of customers each week

on the line that sees the highest number of weekend customers—weekend ridership on the

Red Line is 2/3 that of weekday ridership.

The website includes two instances of mentioning rail cars.

Other benefits

New tracks will accommodate the new 5000-series rail cars, which feature:

Modern, quieter, smoother, more customer features

Security cameras to enhance safety

Why close the Red Line South for this work?

One of the questions we've heard the most is "Why is it best to completely close the South Red Line for five, whole months?" We explored other options, including doing the work on weekends, only, but chose the temporary closure due to the following drawbacks:

Working on weekends, only, it would have taken four years to complete the project

Weekend ridership along the Dan Ryan Branch is significant: over 39,000 on Saturdays and more than 29,000 on Sundays

The five-month construction option will save $75 million over an option to perform work on weekends, only

Continued slow zones for 4 years and could result in:

Average additional commuting time per passenger at a minimum of 20,000 minutes (14 days)

Additional commuting time would increase each year

Greater potential for delays caused by track issues

Continued use of older rail cars for 4 years (noisier, less smooth ride)

More crowded trains for 4 years

So, no mention of cars on current "handout." New tracks will "accommodate" new rail cars. Working only on weekends will mean "continued use of older rail cars.

There is no mention of "car weight." This idea about car weight seems to be something created in the media or on the internet. Although the new tracks will "accommodate" new cars, it doesn't say or imply that the old, present tracks won't "accommodate" new cars. Actually they have already since the prototype cars tested for two sessions on the Red line. It says that if they work weekends only, the older cars will remain. Like the "evil witch" they're saying they won't assign new cars if the project is weekend only because it would be a waste of the new car's features to saddle them with running through years of slow zones. Meanies! There is a statement about new cars if they close for the five months. One could assume that if they close for five months, the Red line will get new cars.

I personally see nothing in statements that say new cars cannot be placed in service on the Red line in the condition it is now. In fact for new cars to be running, they need to be place in service before and during and after the rehab project and that is what is currently scheduled. The Red line should begin receiving 5000 series cars this year starting this year in November.

I wrote in another internet list about this same issue and described statements by Mr. Claypool who at the public meeting at Kennedy King College kept stressing over and over that the southside, "was getting a new railroad." He implied that the new cars would run on this "new railroad" and like the ole carrot and a stick, held up the new cars as a reward for letting the CTA close the line for five months. He implied, like the "mean ole witch" if you don't........ Think that is called "spin."

David Harrison

[BusHunter]

In Monday's edition of the Chicago Tribune, Jon Hilkevitch, their transportation writer again reiterated the assignment order for the 5000 series 'L' cars. Pink, Green, followed by Red. Along with Red will be Purple and Yellow. Last will be Orange in late 2014.

Jon's article also blasted the CTA for their choice of seating in the 5000s. Jon recommended that President Forrest Claypool at least order 100 cars with more traditional seating, perhaps like the 3200s.

David Harrison

That's strange, I could have swore I read in that article that it was going to be Red line next, (November) followed by Purple, Orange and Yellow. Also the Red line delivery should last through 2014, so the last delivery should be 2015 or 16. The #3200 story makes sense to me, he's just stating what we already have stated on this forum, although I would prefer an even breakup of #3200's between the Brown and Blue. I just hope they don't change those cars to longitudinal seating. With all this talk of overcrowding and bus and rail rehabs on the horizon, they just might surprise us. That seating does handle the strollers better. Also in the Tribune article, he states there are 60 #5000's in service on the Pink line and 46 on the Green, with six in acceptance (skokie shops) I originally thought the Green line count was a little high, but they do have a new six car set at Harlem yard (they must have got on Sunday) hiding behind #2400's. #5127-28 is among them, and I assume #5103-04 are two more. When they pull that train out we'll know for sure. I also spotted #5037-38 on the Green line. (another transfer with #5065-66 I mentioned before) Of course, all the cars are mentioned on the "L" roster thread if anyone wants to know what cars are assigned where.

[Vinny]

In Monday's edition of the Chicago Tribune, Jon Hilkevitch, their transportation writer again reiterated the assignment order for the 5000 series 'L' cars. Pink, Green, followed by Red. Along with Red will be Purple and Yellow. Last will be Orange in late 2014.

Jon's article also blasted the CTA for their choice of seating in the 5000s. Jon recommended that President Forrest Claypool at least order 100 cars with more traditional seating, perhaps like the 3200s.

CTA, Claypool to riders complaining about 5000s seating: Drop Dead.

http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/local/ct-met-cta-facing-seats-controversy--0828-20120828,0,2363693.story

[Busjack]

CTA, Claypool to riders complaining about 5000s seating: Drop Dead.

http://www.chicagotr...--0828-20120828,0,2363693.story

I'm surprised Claypool gave that quick of an answer, but people were saying that the Monday column was on the front page of the print edition. I only see the web.

I wonder who fed Claypool this to tell to Hilkevitch, even if it might be correct. I also guess that I would be one of the people to whom Joseph Casillas was referring.

I guess (especially for people like CurrentZ) you inserted the correct headline for this story,

[RJL6000]

CTA, Claypool to riders complaining about 5000s seating: Drop Dead.

http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/local/ct-met-cta-facing-seats-controversy--0828-20120828,0,2363693.story

What they really meant was that the riders are stuck with the mostly longitudinal seating for the next few decades. You see, the train cars had been designed for the longitudinal seating arrangement, and switching would have required a substantial redesign of the cars, which would have delayed their further delivery by at least several years and also would have forced the continued use of older cars (including the 2200s) for the next several years after such older cars had been scheduled for retirement and scrapping.

In other words, if Chicago riders were to get what they want in the seating arrangement, they might as well petition the Federal government to completely repeal the Americans with Disabilities Act and force the transit manufacturers to manufacture only equipment that cannot accommodate wheelchairs at all (this means revert to blinker-type doors instead of sliding doors).

[eyetube21]

That's strange, I could have swore I read in that article that it was going to be Red line next, (November) followed by Purple, Orange and Yellow. Also the Red line delivery should last through 2014, so the last delivery should be 2015 or 16. The #3200 story makes sense to me, he's just stating what we already have stated on this forum, although I would prefer an even breakup of #3200's between the Brown and Blue. I just hope they don't change those cars to longitudinal seating. With all this talk of overcrowding and bus and rail rehabs on the horizon, they just might surprise us. That seating does handle the strollers better. Also in the Tribune article, he states there are 60 #5000's in service on the Pink line and 46 on the Green, with six in acceptance (skokie shops) I originally thought the Green line count was a little high, but they do have a new six car set at Harlem yard (they must have got on Sunday) hiding behind #2400's. #5127-28 is among them, and I assume #5103-04 are two more. When they pull that train out we'll know for sure. I also spotted #5037-38 on the Green line. (another transfer with #5065-66 I mentioned before) Of course, all the cars are mentioned on the "L" roster thread if anyone wants to know what cars are assigned where.

I have a question, BusHunter. Is Car #2495-#2500 of the 2400s are still on the Green Line? Also, is #5099-#5100 and #5087-88 are on the Green Line as well?

[Busjack]

In other words, if Chicago riders were to get what they want in the seating arrangement, they might as well petition the Federal government to completely repeal the Americans with Disabilities Act and force the transit manufacturers to manufacture only equipment that cannot accommodate wheelchairs at all (this means revert to blinker-type doors instead of sliding doors).

I don't think Congress is going to repeal a 20 year old law.

Like I said, I suppose that someone fed Claypool the correct information, but it doesn't explain why Huberman's suggestions to at least use aesthetics other than 1972 bus were not followed, or how CTA justified such things as the Max Capacity cars.

I had indicated yesterday on the CTA Tattler that while CTA can CYA with such things as "signs showing purple were not then available" it will never admit a mistake. In this case, one supposedly made 10 years ago.

I can also guess that based on whatever the person told Claypool, they will not be putting longitudinal seats into the 3200s when they rehabilitate them to make them compatible with the 5000s. Anyone want to start a betting pool on that and hold the money until, say, 2017?

[eyetube21]

I just seen the new 5000s car #5103-04 on the Green Line today. They still have LED amber signs on the front and side of the train. I ride car #5114 heading to Ashland/63rd terminal. They also have Green Line car cards inside of them. Also, I've seen car #5055-56 also on the Green Line heading to Harlem. Maybe, the Pink Line give some 5000s to the Green Line right now, but I'm not sure. We soon to see 2400s are ready to go to the Red Line.

[artthouwill]

This morning I observed two sets of 5000s, four cars each, deadheading to Harlem. It was too dark to get car numbers, but my guess is they came from the Pink Line.

[BusHunter]

This morning I observed two sets of 5000s, four cars each, deadheading to Harlem. It was too dark to get car numbers, but my guess is they came from the Pink Line.

On Tuesday #5001-02, #5067-68 and #5041-42 were on the green line, so yes Pink line has started transferring over cars.

[BusHunter]

This morning I observed two sets of 5000s, four cars each, deadheading to Harlem. It was too dark to get car numbers, but my guess is they came from the Pink Line.

#5059-62 was on the Green line yesterday. That was probably one of those two sets.