Busjack

Procurement of more gallery cars

72 posts in this topic

There are newspaper references to a Metra Press Release for a request for proposals for up to 367 new gallery cars. Proposals are due by June 8, 2016.

Unfortunately for us, one needs a password to My Metra for Business to see the specs.

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It's about dang time...although I would be remiss to find an RFP through APTA for it.

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My guess would be to replace the oldest of the BNSF stuff and start on retiring the best cars in the fleet...the Budd 7200 and 7300, or maybe the old 8200 cab cars.

In any event, I am sure they will be the same crap as the new ME highliners and 6000/8500 series gallery cars

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4 hours ago, trainman8119 said:

My guess would be to replace the oldest of the BNSF stuff and start on retiring the best cars in the fleet...the Budd 7200 and 7300, or maybe the old 8200 cab cars.

In any event, I am sure they will be the same crap as the new ME highliners and 6000/8500 series gallery cars

Not having seen the specs, if they are to be compatible with the existing equipment, who else besides Nippon Sharyo/Sumitomo could provide it? The Bombardier tin cans are not compatible.

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Wonder if specs are for gallery type design with center doors?  Still thinks this design is bad for loading  and awful for the disabled to board.  Not just talking wheel chair but those canes walkers and bad knees, ankles, feet etc.  The galley cars do have a big step to board.  Plus makes easier on wheel chairs bikes strollers luggage.  With ventra it should make ticket collecting easier so the easier to punch tickets excuse is diminished.

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7 minutes ago, west towns said:

Wonder if specs are for gallery type design with center doors?  Still thinks this design is bad for loading  and awful for the disabled to board.

So, what alternative are you proposing?

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Tri level cars which are more standard commuter cars than galley  cars.  Outside of metra, who else runs them.  CALTRANS , Nashville with used equipment salt lake used the old cow cars for a few yrs I believe and the Iowa city football shuttle  oh and illinois railroad museum.  

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3 minutes ago, west towns said:

Tri level cars which are more standard commuter cars than galley  cars.  Outside of metra, who else runs them.  CALTRANS , Nashville with used equipment salt lake used the old cow cars for a few yrs I believe and the Iowa city football shuttle  oh and illinois railroad museum.  

In short, Bombardiers, which are not compatible with the rest of the fleet, still have center doors, and were proven in the California wreck to be tin cans.

And to get back to your ME point, if they were put in their own trainsets, you would claim that there was discrimination against the riders on other lines.

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Metra should have at least tested a consist of trilevels to determine if they would work in chicago.  It ordering enough they don't need to be compatible with all the fleet.  Amtrak am fleet cars are not compatible with superliners.

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15 minutes ago, west towns said:

Metra should have at least tested a consist of trilevels to determine if they would work in chicago.  It ordering enough they don't need to be compatible with all the fleet.  Amtrak am fleet cars are not compatible with superliners.

If you had read the cited press release, you would have seen that that was not consistent with what Metra intends to do--replace obsolete cars as money becomes available. Note that the base is 10 cars,

Now, if you have the $3 million per car to finance the test, maybe Metra will listen to you.

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Could lease a set from manufacturer  or get set on way to another agency lease set from another agency.  Builders will work to get there product out as a  demo .   You don't buy a set to test it 

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11 minutes ago, west towns said:

Metra should have at least tested a consist of trilevels to determine if they would work in chicago.  It ordering enough they don't need to be compatible with all the fleet.  Amtrak am fleet cars are not compatible with superliners.

Superliners are used on long-distance lines, Amfleets are for shorter routes. They have different purposes so their lack of comparability isn't a problem. Metra, however,  currently can use any car on any train on any line (excluding MED). If non-compatible cars are cheaper to buy, they would have to determine whether the price savings outweighs being able to freely swap equipment. If they did do this, most likely certain yard(s) would exclusively have the new cars, like how CTA assigns cars, until eventually the entire system is compatible again.

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Would be interestingto test the compatability  theory as to how far have cars migrated to other lines.  Oh sure the Milwaukee ns, heritage and NC pool is one.  But have bn cars ended up on the up pool?  The up cab cars appear to be fixed to the up lines  as they are lift cab cars where say Milwaukee is mid train cars.

 

Would be a lot of work to track cars around system for a year or two.

 

My guess is they don't stray alot from their 'home' pool as crews get favored with them and get them back .

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5 minutes ago, west towns said:

Would be interestingto test the compatability  theory as to how far have cars migrated to other lines.  Oh sure the Milwaukee ns, heritage and NC pool is one.  But have bn cars ended up on the up pool?  The up cab cars appear to be fixed to the up lines  as they are lift cab cars where say Milwaukee is mid train cars.

 

Would be a lot of work to track cars around system for a year or two.

 

My guess is they don't stray alot from their 'home' pool as crews get favored with them and get them back .

Let's see here... The only requirements are there be a certain number of ADA/cab cars, and anything left over can be assigned anywhere. The only reason they seem to get switched between lines are maintenance issues such as the Amerail rehabs. UP lines advertise that 20 bicycles can be accommodated per train, Whether more ADA cars are assigned there to allow more bikes, or more bikes are allowed because of more ADA cars is unknown. Otherwise there doesn't seem to be much rhyme or reason for certain cars are assigned to certain lines considering how many cars are out of numerical sequence, they just end up where they end up. I doubt the preferences of train crews have anything to do with this.

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Have there ever been bnsf cars on another line?  Have the ex CNW cars been on the bnsf?

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11 minutes ago, west towns said:

Have there ever been bnsf cars on another line?  Have the ex CNW cars been on the bnsf?

BNSF cars are shared with SWS. One of the CNW Pullmans was briefly on RI after being repurchased, and I once saw 2 on a SWS train for some reason (they were gone after returning downtown the next morning). As far as I know, they have never been assigned to BNSF but my SWS example shows that loaners are possible.

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5 hours ago, Pace831 said:

BNSF cars are shared with SWS. One of the CNW Pullmans was briefly on RI after being repurchased, and I once saw 2 on a SWS train for some reason (they were gone after returning downtown the next morning). As far as I know, they have never been assigned to BNSF but my SWS example shows that loaners are possible.

There was something in the Metra minutes a couple of months ago that there had to be an intergovernmental agreement with WSMTD to swap a couple of cars.

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8.3 Passenger Seating:

Can be either fixed-back or walkover seats. Jump seats to be placed in the wheelchair position, but no mention of the upper level. Does that mean the upper level will be all individual seats like the BNSF cars?

12,5 Passenger Compartment Digital Video Recording System

(Security cameras)

That's about all that the passengers will notice, otherwise they seem basically the same as you noted.

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55 minutes ago, maths22 said:

I have uploaded the RFP here:

https://drive.google.com/open?id=0BxnoMRfXXh-FbEJ1ekVxYlFKTkE

I will note that, from a quick skim, the specifications appear to align with those which would have been used for the 6000-series.

 

7 minutes ago, Pace831 said:

8.3 Passenger Seating:....

I was wondering where the actual specifications (as opposed to the legalese) were, but that is in Exhibit 1-M.

Exhibit 1-C indicates only 20 cab cars, but that must be only for expansion, as Metra is now running 8400 (20 year old) and 8500 (10 year old) series cab cars.

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18 hours ago, west towns said:

Have there ever been bnsf cars on another line?  Have the ex CNW cars been on the bnsf?

Highly doubtful.

When it was the CB&Q, the Burlington had far more stringent standards for anti-telescoping than the other commuter roads in Chicago. No other railroads coaches were allowed to be used on the Burlington line.

I don't know if that is still in effect with Metra & BNSF today.

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15 minutes ago, strictures said:

I don't know if that is still in effect with Metra & BNSF today.

See what I posted above. Since the BNSF uses 8500 series cab cars, that's the same equipment that is on other lines. The specs posted by maths incorporate FRA, ARA, and APTA regulations or standards.

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1 hour ago, strictures said:

Highly doubtful.

When it was the CB&Q, the Burlington had far more stringent standards for anti-telescoping than the other commuter roads in Chicago. No other railroads coaches were allowed to be used on the Burlington line.

I don't know if that is still in effect with Metra & BNSF today.

At that time,  each RR ran its own commuter lines.   Now Metra is responsible for the service and equipment with Metra only outsourcing the BNSF and UP lines.

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