Rail Service Alerts-Discussion Thread

[BusHunter]

Unless someone goes for a wrongful death suit. They may have grounds due to the woman asking for help and not getting any. There seems to be unsafe conditions there due to no conductor.  They might also get something due to no protection at the scene of the body. Half of Chicago should not be able to view her corpse. I'd be upset if I was the family. I'm sure if there is a case a bunch of attorneys are phoning them.

[sw4400]

1 hour ago, jajuan said:

I mentioned this in the other thread. Red Line trains had significant delays while police did their initial investigations. Service was back to normal by the PM rush.  And Busjack is right. This sad senseless event had no direct connection to CTA in regards to it's cause. Police did what they needed in terms of gathering evidence. They have the suspect. So there's no need to put those two cars on any kind of hold. 

Well when someone came aboard #4761(I think that was the bus #... it was a TMC, I remember that) and shot and I think killed that one victim, didn't that bus become a hold? Didn't police catch that suspect near the scene of the shooting?

[jajuan]

4 minutes ago, sw4400 said:

Well when someone came aboard #4761(I think that was the bus #... it was a TMC, I remember that) and shot and I think killed that one victim, didn't that bus become a hold? Didn't police catch that suspect near the scene of the shooting?

The Blair Holt shooting. No. It went back into service no more than a couple of weeks later as I recall. 

[Busjack]

3 hours ago, BusHunter said:

Unless someone goes for a wrongful death suit. They may have grounds due to the woman asking for help and not getting any. There seems to be unsafe conditions there due to no conductor.

That may be arguable. but I don't think it would work. CTA may have a high degree of duty for passengers' safety, but something like this would normally be considered a superseding cause. There certainly would not be a duty to have a conductor, and arguably one could say that CPD should have a cop on every car, but there is a personal duty requirement under the Local Governmental and Governmental Employees Tort Immunity Act..However that Act doesn't affect the Metropolitan Transit Authority Act.

In any event, unless there is evidence that either the call or surveillance system did not work, there is no argument that the car was defective, and hence no reason to put a hold on the car after the police got their evidence.

Whether any duty of the type I described in the first paragraph exists would be decided by the court as a matter of law; the only evidence would be whether prior assaults put CTA on notice to create a duty, not evidence of this attack.

[BusHunter]

57 minutes ago, Busjack said:

That may be arguable. but I don't think it would work. CTA may have a high degree of duty for passengers' safety, but something like this would normally be considered a superseding cause. There certainly would not be a duty to have a conductor, and arguably one could say that CPD should have a cop on every car, but there is a personal duty requirement under the Local Governmental and Governmental Employees Tort Immunity Act..However that Act doesn't affect the Metropolitan Transit Authority Act.

In any event, unless there is evidence that either the call or surveillance system did not work, there is no argument that the car was defective, and hence no reason to put a hold on the car after the police got their evidence.

Whether any duty of the type I described in the first paragraph exists would be decided by the court as a matter of law; the only evidence would be whether prior assaults put CTA on notice to create a duty, not evidence of this attack.

It does seem most negligible cases are of the accident type. I can't really find a similar case, but basically what this says is that passengers are not safe on the train or bus. While cameras may help catch an offender, it does not stop the crime. The CTA seems more worried in protecting it's employees than it's riders. Essentially you are riding at your own risk. Maybe they do need an "L" marshall. Heaven help us if someone with real intention to harm boarded a train. We wouldn't stand a chance. How is an operator supposed to protect anyone from a weapon?

 

[Busjack]

9 hours ago, BusHunter said:

I can't really find a similar case,

There is a line of premises liability cases that if a landlord is on notice that there are a lot of rapes and burglaries in Inner Lake Shore Drive buildings, there is a duty to install a lock and alarm. Most of these are classified as "passive negligence, " as opposed to something like the bus running into 205 N. Michigan Plaza where the active negligence of the CTA would exist if somehow it is attributed to the driver or bus maintenance.But if the owner of the Plaza knew that buses frequently crash the curb, it would have the duty to install a barrier.

Basically, a similar premises liability issue was presented in Lee v. CTA, involving the person who electrocuted himself urinating on the tracks at 4600 N. Kedzie. The usual argument is that the only duty owed trespassers was to refrain from willful and wanton conduct (you may not shoot them), but the question came down to whether CTA could reasonably anticipate persons on the tracks, the number of such accidents at its grade crossings, and that it used gates in Wilmette.

You did state the issue properly in stating that there might be  a duty to provide safety measures. However, for something like Lee to apply, CTA would have to have sufficient knowledge that stabbings and other types of assaults occur on the Red Line that there was a duty to warn or provide security measures. The standard of care is higher, because the decedent was a passenger, rather than a trespasser.

However, I can probably end this excursion with:

• The question was the need for a legal hold on the car.
• If retained by the executor of the estate to bring a wrongful death suit, it is not up to us to tell Cannon Lamberrt, Kenneth J. Allen, or Howard Ankin what to do. Also, not the CTA Law Dept.

9 hours ago, BusHunter said:

Heaven help us if someone with real intention to harm boarded a train.

That essentially gets down to whether a London style terrorist could get away with that here.Homeland Security's only response has been the cameras and "if you see something, say something." Boston's only response to the Marathon bombings was to shut down the T. CTA has pretty much admitted that the cameras are there for the reason you stated--to id the perp afterwards.

[BusHunter]

1 hour ago, Busjack said:

That essentially gets down to whether a London style terrorist could get away with that here.Homeland Security's only response has been the cameras and "if you see something, say something." Boston's only response to the Marathon bombings was to shut down the T. CTA has pretty much admitted that the cameras are there for the reason you stated--to id the perp afterwards.

This incident demonstrates a terrorist doesn't need a bomb to inflict damage upon it's rider. CTA security is lax during an incident, if a person didn't care if they were caught or was some kind of suicide terrorist they could easily inflict mass casualties with a weapon. Orlando shows us that. Hopefully that never happens, but it could be stopped with plain clothes "L" marshall.  I'm surprised the transit union doesn't vouch for such an installation, the train operator is not supposed to be a cop and incidents such as this endanger it's members safety too.

[Busjack]

6 minutes ago, BusHunter said:

but it could be stopped with plain clothes "L" marshall. 

But that gets down to what the CPD transit detail is supposed to do.

[BusHunter]

27 minutes ago, Busjack said:

But that gets down to what the CPD transit detail is supposed to do.

What little of it there is. I heard two officers talking that they were the only crew serving the whole Forest Pk. branch, so if you have an incident at an opposite end it could take them 20-30 minutes to arrive. You probably get a better response from CPD itself. 

[garmon757]

Anybody watched WGN news that day of the incident? They played the 911 recording but some fool told the dispatcher that the incident happened on "car #5741"! I'm sitting here sarcastically asking myself, "CTA secretly ordered more 5000s????"  

[sw4400]

28 minutes ago, garmon757 said:

Anybody watched WGN news that day of the incident? They played the 911 recording but some fool told the dispatcher that the incident happened on "car #5741"! I'm sitting here sarcastically asking myself, "CTA secretly ordered more 5000s????"  

Hey!!!!!! You're not supposed to talk about that order of 80 more 5000-Series railcars the CTA secretly procured(5715-5794)!!!!! Damn it!!!!! Now I just mentioned it!!!!!! Thanks, @garmon757!!!!!  

[Busjack]

4 hours ago, garmon757 said:

Anybody watched WGN news that day of the incident? They played the 911 recording but some fool told the dispatcher that the incident happened on "car #5741"! I'm sitting here sarcastically asking myself, "CTA secretly ordered more 5000s????"  

The only thing that really counts is that the police got the word to go to approx. 150 West 47th St., which, BTW, is a real lonnnng distance from Area Central District HQ at 51st and Wentworth.

[garmon757]

7 minutes ago, Busjack said:

The only thing that really counts is that the police got the word to go to approx. 150 West 47th St., which, BTW, is a real lonnnng distance from Area Central District HQ at 51st and Wentworth.

Well hell, I don't know how long it took them to arrive but I bet an average runner can get to 47th from 51st in 5 minutes!

[garmon757]

3 hours ago, sw4400 said:

Hey!!!!!! You're not supposed to talk about that order of 80 more 5000-Series railcars the CTA secretly procured(5715-5794)!!!!! Damn it!!!!! Now I just mentioned it!!!!!! Thanks, @garmon757!!!!!  

What's next, Emmanuel send his goons after me??? 

[BusHunter]

9 minutes ago, garmon757 said:

What's next, Emmanuel send his goons after me??? 

You'll be alright, just don't talk about the Lucas fiasco!!

[Busjack]

38 minutes ago, garmon757 said:

Well hell, I don't know how long it took them to arrive but I bet an average runner can get to 47th from 51st in 5 minutes!

An average walker could, but with all that equipment and all those Dunkin Donuts, the cops...

[Busjack]

11 hours ago, garmon757 said:

Anybody watched WGN news that day of the incident? They played the 911 recording but some fool told the dispatcher that the incident happened on "car #5741"! I'm sitting here sarcastically asking myself, "CTA secretly ordered more 5000s????"  

Tribune video found on chicagonow.com indicates it was 5305, not that it much matters.

[garmon757]

41 minutes ago, Busjack said:

Tribune video found on chicagonow.com indicates it was 5305, not that it much matters.

I saw it myself. 

[sw4400]

This is extreme zoom and may be grainy, but I got an image of a 8 car set of 3200's pulling into the Kimball station with a blue light on a car. The train was marked "Not In Service ". Sorry for it not being a closer shot, but there were too many employees near that end of the station. 

[sw4400]

8 hours ago, garmon757 said:

I want to make a friendly reminder about soliciting. It's very common on trains than busses but if you see minors or whoever on trains trying to fundraise by asking for money to support their so-called sports teams or other programs then it's a scam. Under state law, it is ILLEGAL from any program or organization to exploit minors to solicit (a felony if it's on CTA or private property) under any circumstances. If you have given them money, then you money went to waste. 

I actually dealt with this once recently, @garmon757 on the Brown Line. Heading to Damen, the train took it's sweet time pulling into the station. Meanwhile, a guy comes into my car from the car ahead of me going through and asking for us to sign a form he had. I'm waiting for the train to get into the station and open the door, and he gets right in my space going on about the form and to sign it, so I scribble some unintelligible writing on there and turn to leave. Now he's asking me for money.... I told him I don't have any and he's like "Well you signed the document, so you need to make a contribution." I said "Sorry." and walked off the train. The train closed it's doors with him off the train, leaving him on the platform. If I wasn't late for an appointment, I would've went to the Customer Service representative in the Station and informed them of the guy above.

We've also had teens asking for money for their basketball teams at a Jewel once. The Management told them they couldn't solicit on store property, so they came into the store and knocked over some displays and ran out before getting caught to teach us a lesson about telling them to leave our property.

[Pace831]

35 minutes ago, sw4400 said:

I actually dealt with this once recently, @garmon757 on the Brown Line. Heading to Damen, the train took it's sweet time pulling into the station. Meanwhile, a guy comes into my car from the car ahead of me going through and asking for us to sign a form he had. I'm waiting for the train to get into the station and open the door, and he gets right in my space going on about the form and to sign it, so I scribble some unintelligible writing on there and turn to leave. Now he's asking me for money.... I told him I don't have any and he's like "Well you signed the document, so you need to make a contribution." I said "Sorry." and walked off the train. The train closed it's doors with him off the train, leaving him on the platform. If I wasn't late for an appointment, I would've went to the Customer Service representative in the Station and informed them of the guy above.

We've also had teens asking for money for their basketball teams at a Jewel once. The Management told them they couldn't solicit on store property, so they came into the store and knocked over some displays and ran out before getting caught to teach us a lesson about telling them to leave our property.

Tip for new riders, if they happen to be reading this: People who come through the emergency doors at the end of the car are generally up to no good.

"Basketball team" seems to be a classic excuse used by these scammers. There was a group of people I encountered on the Blue line handing out flyers about their "team" and talking about how they needed new uniforms. One guy sat down next to me to give his speech and hand me a flyer. I pushed the flyer back and told him I didn't have any money. Fortunately, they moved on (through the emergency door) without incident.

In another instance, also on the blue line, a physically intimidating man came through the emergency door and walked to the middle of the car. He said "Listen up everybody" then started talking about how he used to be in a gang, had done time in prison, and was now trying to turn his life around but needed money to go to Chicago State University. (Good luck collecting enough for tuition by panhandling). When he was done talking he went to the far end of the car and started working his way toward me, asking everyone for "donations". A lot of people were giving him money, probably out of fear. He was being pretty aggressive so I got off before he reached my end of the car, and waited for the next train. I should have reported him, but like your situation, I didn't want to be late.

Since you mentioned Jewel, I'm surprised how often my local store allows various groups to solicit outside the doors. It seems like every weekend in the summer there is someone there. If I were a store manager I'd be afraid customers would start shopping somewhere else because they're tired of being asked for money all the time. At least these groups have permission, unlike those teens you encountered.

[garmon757]

13 hours ago, sw4400 said:

I actually dealt with this once recently, @garmon757 on the Brown Line. Heading to Damen, the train took it's sweet time pulling into the station. Meanwhile, a guy comes into my car from the car ahead of me going through and asking for us to sign a form he had. I'm waiting for the train to get into the station and open the door, and he gets right in my space going on about the form and to sign it, so I scribble some unintelligible writing on there and turn to leave. Now he's asking me for money.... I told him I don't have any and he's like "Well you signed the document, so you need to make a contribution." I said "Sorry." and walked off the train. The train closed it's doors with him off the train, leaving him on the platform. If I wasn't late for an appointment, I would've went to the Customer Service representative in the Station and informed them of the guy above.

We've also had teens asking for money for their basketball teams at a Jewel once. The Management told them they couldn't solicit on store property, so they came into the store and knocked over some displays and ran out before getting caught to teach us a lesson about telling them to leave our property.

I swear I remembered you mentioning about that earlier this year if I'm not mistaking. 

 

12 hours ago, Pace831 said:

"Basketball team" seems to be a classic excuse used by these scammers. There was a group of people I encountered on the Blue line handing out flyers about their "team" and talking about how they needed new uniforms. One guy sat down next to me to give his speech and hand me a flyer. I pushed the flyer back and told him I didn't have any money. Fortunately, they moved on (through the emergency door) without incident.

In another instance, also on the blue line, a physically intimidating man came through the emergency door and walked to the middle of the car. He said "Listen up everybody" then started talking about how he used to be in a gang, had done time in prison, and was now trying to turn his life around but needed money to go to Chicago State University. (Good luck collecting enough for tuition by panhandling). When he was done talking he went to the far end of the car and started working his way toward me, asking everyone for "donations". A lot of people were giving him money, probably out of fear. He was being pretty aggressive so I got off before he reached my end of the car, and waited for the next train. I should have reported him, but like your situation, I didn't want to be late.

Yeah, that's the same guy who ask for a 30-day pass. I'm sitting here like wow. He's been targeting riders on Blue, Red, Green, Brown, and Orange Lines. 

[sw4400]

2 minutes ago, brownliner said:

My wife, who works at Rush, says someone saw it get struck by lightning. 

With some of those close strikes, I wouldn't doubt it, but winds of 60-70 mph could've hit it, too.

I wonder what debris has impacted the Red Line and essentially crippled the Brown Line.

[Pace831]

3 minutes ago, sw4400 said:

With some of those close strikes, I wouldn't doubt it, but winds of 60-70 mph could've hit it, too.

I wonder what debris has impacted the Red Line and essentially crippled the Brown Line.

WGN said a tree fell on the tracks near Armitage. The article is also linked in the random CTA thread, including video of the lightning strike.

[sw4400]

Brown Line restored around 11:30p....... down again due to more debris on the tracks. Trains running Kimball to Armitage only. I wonder if there's track damage, it hasn't been an hour since service was fully restored, according to CTA that it's down again.