Combining Bus Routes

[Anthony Devera]

Right now I feel that there are some bus routes that could be combined to create a better grid. A lot of times there is a CTA route that only reaches the city border, and then a Pace route continues from there. One might argue about funding, but a good portion of Route 21 runs outside the city borders. Here are my ideas for combined routes:

12–305
20–320
60–124
63W–386
86–314
90–307
91–315

[Busjack]

1 hour ago, Anthony Devera said:

Right now I feel that there are some bus routes that could be combined to create a better grid. A lot of times there is a CTA route that only reaches the city border, and then a Pace route continues from there. One might argue about funding, but a good portion of Route 21 runs outside the city borders. Here are my ideas for combined routes:

12–305
20–320
60–124
63W–386
86–314
90–307
91–315

Basically, the two efforts CTA actually made with Pace (the Crowd Reduction Plan and the North Shore Coordination Study) address most of this.

For instance, 63W and 386 were coordinated by the first so that they are alternate trips.

The issue which you might have properly raised is that a West Side coordination study may be necessary. For instance, Pace cut back 307 (some trips now end at the Green Line) because 90 infringed on its territory.

You also didn't say which authority should be running in Cicero and Berwyn. If there is any lesson from the North Shore study, CTA is properly pulling back from suburban territory (canceling 54A and 205 and reducing frequency on 206). The converse is that Pace doesn't have the resources to run into Chicago, except in accordance with its mission to get to the nearest rapid transit station, which, on the west side, is in the suburbs

In short, basically all you have listed are nonstarters.

On the pure CTA combination, possible, except it decreases frequency on the Loop Link, and 124 looks like it is becoming an electric bus route. You also wouldn't have service to the Randolph-Millennium Park area (unless you are going to cut off Navy Piier, which is the whole justification for 124).

 

[Passenger]

I don't know if the CTA is considering it, but there's also the fact that longer routes are more prone to bus bunching.

 

[artthouwill]

The Pace CTA routes noted above may have some overlap, but they serve different markets.

12 serves Roosevelt east of Central while 305 service area is West of Cicero.  Only a mile overlap.

The 90 primarily serves North of the Green Line and the  307 serves primarily south of the Green Line.

 

[Busjack]

I think @Anthony Devera's comment was more motivated by that certain bus routes get cut off at the city line (if anyone wants to make an argument along those lines, take Pace 385), but the other commenters point out the practical difficulties in dealing with just the map.

17 hours ago, Passenger said:

... but there's also the fact that longer routes are more prone to bus bunching.

A similar consideration is that CTA doesn't want its buses stuck at a railroad crossing in the suburbs

14 hours ago, artthouwill said:

but they serve different markets.

Even where there isn't overlap (such as 12/305) there's no justification for running the portion between Monitor and Forest Park as the same frequency as 12, and if one short turned 3 out of 4 12s at Monitor, any point in giving passengers a "one seat ride" would be lost (sort of like why the coordination between 95W and 381 was undone, by combining 95E and 95W into 95).

[strictures]

20 hours ago, Passenger said:

I don't know if the CTA is considering it, but there's also the fact that longer routes are more prone to bus bunching.

 

That may be, but explain why I often find all five buses assigned to the 155 Devon running together in a pack.

[andrethebusman]

Don't know how many know this, but a hundred some years ago what is now West Towns was part of the CSL system (sort of). City cars ended at Pulaski, while suburban cars ran from Madison via Pulaski-Chicago-Harlem-Madison-Desplaines to cemeteries, Lake from Madison via Pulaski-Lake to 25th Ave, Roosevelt from Kenton via Roosevelt-Desplaines to Cemeteries, etc. This was split up and city cars extended to Austin when it was decided CSL could not run past city limits, and suburban lines became County Traction (later Evanston Rys and Chicago & West Towns Rys). A case could definitely be made for extending Madison, Roosevelt to Desplaines Av, even Chicago Av to Harlem. Austin is a very artificial terminal point based on politics, not travel patterns past or present.

[Busjack]

55 minutes ago, andrethebusman said:

A case could definitely be made for extending Madison, Roosevelt to Desplaines Av, even Chicago Av to Harlem. Austin is a very artificial terminal point based on politics, not travel patterns past or present.

Well, is CTA going to assume that cost in 2018?

There's also the issue of the funding formula being based on that political boundary. CTA gets 100% of the RTA sales tax within it, 50% without.

[Ochoa]

On 12/7/2017 at 1:30 PM, strictures said:

That may be, but explain why I often find all five buses assigned to the 155 Devon running together in a pack.

Easy once the construction is done it won't be like that plus the streets a narrow its not like you can pass somebody on a tight devon street so that slows down the bus and at loyal its always a big crowd at the redline waiting for the #155 at the time accept late nights , plus between western and rockwell its a lot of store and a banquet hall god forbid if its a event the peoples a block the streets up until they are done than move so their goes the delays .

[strictures]

22 hours ago, Ochoa said:

Easy once the construction is done it won't be like that plus the streets a narrow its not like you can pass somebody on a tight devon street so that slows down the bus and at loyal its always a big crowd at the redline waiting for the #155 at the time accept late nights , plus between western and rockwell its a lot of store and a banquet hall god forbid if its a event the peoples a block the streets up until they are done than move so their goes the delays .

Sorry, but none of that is the reason, as I've seen that on an early Sunday morning, before the stores have even opened!

The problem is due to the total incompetence of the CTA bus controllers who aren't moving one or two of the bunched up buses to express ahead using Pratt!

[Busjack]

6 hours ago, strictures said:

Sorry, but none of that is the reason, as I've seen that on an early Sunday morning, before the stores have even opened!

The problem is due to the total incompetence of the CTA bus controllers who aren't moving one or two of the bunched up buses to express ahead using Pratt!

Pratt is even narrower than Devon. The bus would be lost.

[andrethebusman]

Basic problem is the schedules are too fast for real traffic conditions. This affects most routes. More traffic, more traffic lights.

[strictures]

On 12/15/2017 at 8:15 AM, Busjack said:

Pratt is even narrower than Devon. The bus would be lost.

Not between Ridge & Kedzie, as it was widened in 1979..  Plus, years ago, the 155 went in both directions on Pratt between Ashland & Sheridan & Pratt is the same width west to Ridge from Sheridan.

[Busjack]

On 12/17/2017 at 2:58 AM, strictures said:

Not between Ridge & Kedzie, as it was widened in 1979..  Plus, years ago, the 155 went in both directions on Pratt between Ashland & Sheridan & Pratt is the same width west to Ridge from Sheridan.

Even if it were technically feasible  (and  I only remember  155 looping via  the Morse station) this woulAsd make as mmuch sense as taking half the  79s and putting them on 83rd because 79th is backed up in Chatham, or half the X9s on Racine. You can't put half your  capacity on a side street and have any hope of serving those on the main line.

We've discussed other strategies such as "next bus" headsigns and artics, but there is basically no space to pass on Devon,and the artics apparently failed on 66 and 79. @andrethebusman seems to have the only solution that the CAD  data have to be used to establish a more reasonable schedule.

[orionbuslover]

On 12/15/2017 at 4:53 PM, andrethebusman said:

Basic problem is the schedules are too fast for real traffic conditions. This affects most routes. More traffic, more traffic lights.

So, if CTA gave all routes an appropriate schedule, would that eliminate bus bunching? Chicago isn't like most American cities with wide open 4/6 lane streets. Until the CTA can convince the City that it needs priority on streets in terms of bus lanes and signal preemption, there will be bus bunching. I don't think the CTA could ever perfectly schedule buses or manage them in real time when there is literally hundreds of thousands of individual cars in the mix.

[MetroShadow]

On 12/15/2017 at 2:53 PM, andrethebusman said:

Basic problem is the schedules are too fast for real traffic conditions. This affects most routes. More traffic, more traffic lights.

You're also subject to the idiots in front of you; which usually means that Devon is a hotbed in itself.

I would say 155 needs to fix the running time or better active transportation management, anything just short of throwing another bus or three on there.

[strictures]

3 hours ago, Busjack said:

Even if it were technically feasible  (and  I only remember  155 looping via  the Morse station) this woulAsd make as mmuch sense as taking half the  79s and putting them on 83rd because 79th is backed up in Chatham, or half the X9s on Racine. You can't put half your  capacity on a side street and have any hope of serving those on the main line.

We've discussed other strategies such as "next bus" headsigns and artics, but there is basically no space to pass on Devon,and the artics apparently failed on 66 and 79. @andrethebusman seems to have the only solution ghat the CAD  data have to be used to establish a more reasonable schedule.

The original 155 route went North on Ashland from Pratt to Howard, West on Howard to Western & South on Western to the terminal it shared with the 49B near Birchwood. Then it reversed & went back.

What I want is the 96 to move to Pratt off of Lunt, which is a side street that the city has banned parking on one side to allow the buses to pass each other.  It makes no sense to have the 290 on Touhy & the 96 on Lunt, just a quarter-mile apart.  Plus the 96 used to run on Touhy to the Howard L station as the northern section of that route.  Pratt is one of the few half-mile streets in Chicago with no buses on it, other than the half-mile the 155 uses east of Ashland.

[Busjack]

6 hours ago, strictures said:

What I want is the 96 to move to Pratt off of Lunt, which is a side street that the city has banned parking on one side to allow the buses to pass each other.

In that CTA just did  a restructuring with Pace that covered the same territory the 2003 Rogers Park-North Shore one did, and explicitly said 96 and  155 remain unchanged  those of you pining for Pratt in any form (which it appears you are doing) are out of luck again.

[ChicagoNova]

I'm not sure if this would be the appropriate forum for what I'm about to talk about, but I was thinking, what if CTA were to discontinue 54A North Cicero/Skokie Blvd. & extend 54 Cicero to operate to/from Dempster-Skokie Yellow Line station & let 97 Skokie take over the rest of the way to Westfield Shoppingtown Old Orchard.

[Busjack]

19 hours ago, ChicagoNova said:

I'm not sure if this would be the appropriate forum for what I'm about to talk about, but I was thinking, what if CTA were to discontinue 54A North Cicero/Skokie Blvd. & extend 54 Cicero to operate to/from Dempster-Skokie Yellow Line station & let 97 Skokie take over the rest of the way to Westfield Shoppingtown Old Orchard.

The posting of the display boards for the NS Coordination project indicates you are  a day late and a dollar short. Any service is to be via Pace route C. 

CTA is correctly no longer interested in suburban extensions, and in this case replacing a low frequency route with a high frequency one.