CTA Budget 2021

[artthouwill]

Considering how Pace has cuts in service for its 2021 budget, I wonder what CTA will actually propose.

This is what I would propose 

Reduce Red Line owl service frequency from 15 minutes to 30 minutes.

Eliminate Blue Line owl service.

Eliminate bus routes 1, 11,18,24,30,31,37,43,4448,54A,55A,85A,96,100,124,134,143,165.

ELIMINATE the downtown service on the 28.

Eliminate service east of the Garfield Red Line on route 59, if bot the entire route.

[artthouwill]

1 hour ago, YoungBusLover said:

Routes like the 1,2,24,31,and 124 are a few that come to mind as far as reductions or eliminations are concerned. Overnight service in my opinion shouldn't get eliminated but reductions in service will have a major impact on a lot of people that rely upon it to get them to work on time and home from work if they get off late. 

We will see how it impacts service.   With the cuts i proposed that should wipe out all of the remaining 6499s.  How this affects new bus orders remains to be seen.  Also, how will this affect staffing?  CTA just hired new drivers.  Will they be cut?  Will CTA offer several packages for senior drivers nearing retirement?

[Sam92]

1 hour ago, artthouwill said:

Considering how Pace has cuts in service for its 2021 budget, I wonder what CTA will actually propose.

This is what I would propose 

Reduce Red Line owl service frequency from 15 minutes to 30 minutes.

Eliminate Blue Line owl service.

Eliminate bus routes 1, 11,18,24,30,31,37,43,4448,54A,55A,85A,96,100,124,134,143,165.

ELIMINATE the downtown service on the 28.

Eliminate service east of the Garfield Red Line on route 59, if bot the entire route.

Blue line you would need to run the 56 and 126 overnights plus an ohare shuttle to help people still get to the airport I don’t see that one really happening 

[YoungBusLover]

1 hour ago, artthouwill said:

We will see how it impacts service.   With the cuts i proposed that should wipe out all of the remaining 6499s.  How this affects new bus orders remains to be seen.  Also, how will this affect staffing?  CTA just hired new drivers.  Will they be cut?  Will CTA offer several packages for senior drivers nearing retirement?

Well if history repeats itself the bottom of barrel will most likely get furloughed worse case scenario. 

[YoungBusLover]

1 hour ago, artthouwill said:

Considering how Pace has cuts in service for its 2021 budget, I wonder what CTA will actually propose.

This is what I would propose 

Reduce Red Line owl service frequency from 15 minutes to 30 minutes.

Eliminate Blue Line owl service.

Eliminate bus routes 1, 11,18,24,30,31,37,43,4448,54A,55A,85A,96,100,124,134,143,165.

ELIMINATE the downtown service on the 28.

Eliminate service east of the Garfield Red Line on route 59, if bot the entire route.

I'd add the #2 to the list after having this past summer ridership is virtually zero on the route and a majority of the people that use get off at 47th & Lake Park during the PM rush if the #6 isn't coming and practically no one is riding heading back downtown either. I would also get rid of the #39 as well, I hardly see any ridership on that route either when i'm back west from the red line towards Western. As far as the #59 goes i'd have it terminate at Garfield Green Line station just to give passengers another option. Certain routes do need a reduction in service hours though especially on the weekends, the 52A and 53A both could use a reduction, after about 6 PM on South Pulaski its a literal ghost town out there.

[artthouwill]

59 minutes ago, Sam92 said:

Blue line you would need to run the 56 and 126 overnights plus an ohare shuttle to help people still get to the airport I don’t see that one really happening 

Not really.   If you look at the current Blue Line schedule, you have a 30 minute gap after 1 am, a 50 minute gap after 130am, a 30 minute gap after 230am.  AFTER 3am, the intervals go to 15 minutes.  So you actually can eliminate 2 trains in each direction between 1 and 3am.  The Madison bus is 1/2  to the North of the Blue Line and already serves as the alternative to Green Line service.  Milwaukee doesn't need owl bus service for a 2 hr gap.

 

[Anthony Devera]

8 hours ago, artthouwill said:

Considering how Pace has cuts in service for its 2021 budget, I wonder what CTA will actually propose.

This is what I would propose 

Reduce Red Line owl service frequency from 15 minutes to 30 minutes.

Eliminate Blue Line owl service.

Eliminate bus routes 1, 11,18,24,30,31,37,43,4448,54A,55A,85A,96,100,124,134,143,165.

ELIMINATE the downtown service on the 28.

Eliminate service east of the Garfield Red Line on route 59, if bot the entire route.

In addition to these routes, I would also eliminate routes 2, 51, 120, 121, 125. It might be possible to also eliminate some Lake Shore Drive expresses (135, 136, 148) as well as the 151 north of Belmont, and increase service on nearby routes (36, 146).

I'm not sure cutting the 30 is a good idea, as it is the only route that serves Hegewisch, while all the other routes you mentioned have alternative service. Maybe CTA could just keep Route 30 south of 91st, similar to the old Sunday routing. If the 18 was to be cut, I would also increase service on the 12 and 21 to make up for it.

[BusHunter]

Cutting the blue overnight would just be from 1 to 4am. Nobody rides then mostly just the homeless. I've been on a 230am blue line, I've seen. It's pretty bad. Ohare itself is not flying passengers planes after 12 midnight, just cargo, so the workers or their employer may have to come up with 3rd party shuttles. I suppose you could argue not cut the blue but it needs to go from racine west at least. I know that means no rail service for the west side but they have the Madison bus. Would it he too crazy of an idea to run a bus shuttle overnight jeff to ohare. And just do jeff to racine overnight rail. If I did that, I would increase the hours maybe from 9pm to 5am. They could get the same savings save some service and not run trains virtually empty. 

The buses I'd just do what they proposed in the doomsday cuts. Increase all 20 minute frequencies to 30 minutes. 10 to 15. That should be across the board. There can be some exceptions. On the south side where people depend heavily on the bus, you wouldnt be as critical to cut. You would be basing your cuts on ridership, but even overnight on the #79, do they need artics at 2am. I worked 79th myself in my charter company hauling the ups workers and i see no one on the buses then. Now the feds were giving cta the biggest part of the pie in assistance. So I dont think theyll cut like Pace. Plus Lightfoot is going to push back on any cuts, so it should be interesting. I think it hasnt been released because alot of people will be upset by the cuts. Theyll probably be hearings on it. Plus cta has yet to cut anything. I dont see how they do a budget not cutting we will see!!

[Nova's at 103rd]

Even with CTA getting the largest cut, I would guess service cuts won't be as bad as Pace but I'd propose just to stay on the safe side the route elimination of 1, 2, X9, 11, 18, 24, 31, 37, 48, X49, 51, 54A, 55A, 57, 85A, 86, 88, 96, 100, 108, 120, 121, 124, 125, 134, 135, 136, 143, 148, 165, 169, 171, 172 and 192 until further notice. Service reductions on the N5, 6, 7, 8, 8A, J14, 26, 39, 43, 44, 52A, 53A, 54B, 55N, 56, 59, 62H, 63W, 65, 68, 71, 72, 73, 74, 75, 76, 78, 80, 84, 87, 90, 91, 92, 93, 94, 95, 103, 106, 146, 147, 152, 156, 157, 201, and 206 to about every 20 to 40 minutes. All rail service besides the Red and Blue Line will end at 12am. Blue Line night owl will only operate from O'Hare to UIC every hour. Red night owl will operate every 30 to 40 minutes. Already stated Lightfoot will oppose cut backs as much as she can and even though CTA is getting the most money, it's almost impossible to avoid service cuts but it may not be as bad to an extent. We'll just have to wait and see but whatever happens I feel riders will have the biggest push back.

[YoungBusLover]

1 hour ago, Nova's at 103rd said:

Even with CTA getting the largest cut, I would guess service cuts won't be as bad as Pace but I'd propose just to stay on the safe side the route elimination of 1, 2, X9, 11, 18, 24, 31, 37, 48, X49, 51, 54A, 55A, 57, 85A, 86, 88, 96, 100, 108, 120, 121, 124, 125, 134, 135, 136, 143, 148, 165, 169, 171, 172 and 192 until further notice. Service reductions on the N5, 6, 7, 8, 8A, J14, 26, 39, 43, 44, 52A, 53A, 54B, 55N, 56, 59, 62H, 63W, 65, 68, 71, 72, 73, 74, 75, 76, 78, 80, 84, 87, 90, 91, 92, 93, 94, 95, 103, 106, 146, 147, 152, 156, 157, 201, and 206 to about every 20 to 40 minutes. All rail service besides the Red and Blue Line will end at 12am. Blue Line night owl will only operate from O'Hare to UIC every hour. Red night owl will operate every 30 to 40 minutes. Already stated Lightfoot will oppose cut backs as much as she can and even though CTA is getting the most money, it's almost impossible to avoid service cuts but it may not be as bad to an extent. We'll just have to wait and see but whatever happens I feel riders will have the biggest push back.

I wouldn't cut the 169 or 192 mainly because of the purpose of what they're actually serving. U of C Hospital to Union Station I believe for the 192 and then the 169 is a Express bus that gives passengers access to the hodgkins ups facility. You're also suggesting that 20 to 40 minute intervals will work based on the low ridership data. On some routes I see that working but others I don't with the season's changing I don't think CTA would just cut off life line routes to areas that really need them because without them some residents dont have much of an option other than overpriced ride share companies. As far as the Red and Blue are concerned increasing intervals overnight would work though. 

[MetroShadow]

On 10/17/2020 at 1:50 PM, Nova's at 103rd said:

Even with CTA getting the largest cut, I would guess service cuts won't be as bad as Pace but I'd propose just to stay on the safe side the route elimination of 1, 2, X9, 11, 18, 24, 31, 37, 48, X49, 51, 54A, 55A, 57, 85A, 86, 88, 96, 100, 108, 120, 121, 124, 125, 134, 135, 136, 143, 148, 165, 169, 171, 172 and 192 until further notice. Service reductions on the N5, 6, 7, 8, 8A, J14, 26, 39, 43, 44, 52A, 53A, 54B, 55N, 56, 59, 62H, 63W, 65, 68, 71, 72, 73, 74, 75, 76, 78, 80, 84, 87, 90, 91, 92, 93, 94, 95, 103, 106, 146, 147, 152, 156, 157, 201, and 206 to about every 20 to 40 minutes. All rail service besides the Red and Blue Line will end at 12am. Blue Line night owl will only operate from O'Hare to UIC every hour. Red night owl will operate every 30 to 40 minutes. Already stated Lightfoot will oppose cut backs as much as she can and even though CTA is getting the most money, it's almost impossible to avoid service cuts but it may not be as bad to an extent. We'll just have to wait and see but whatever happens I feel riders will have the biggest push back.

There are a lot of equity (Title VI) and subsidized services (124?, 170's, 192) that have to be considered. No funding, no running. And especially at the ends of the city, again, Title VI ramifications and the way services have to be cut must be considered. 

[MetroShadow]

On 10/17/2020 at 9:29 AM, BusHunter said:

Cutting the blue overnight would just be from 1 to 4am. Nobody rides then mostly just the homeless. I've been on a 230am blue line, I've seen. It's pretty bad. Ohare itself is not flying passengers planes after 12 midnight, just cargo, so the workers or their employer may have to come up with 3rd party shuttles. I suppose you could argue not cut the blue but it needs to go from racine west at least. I know that means no rail service for the west side but they have the Madison bus. Would it he too crazy of an idea to run a bus shuttle overnight jeff to ohare. And just do jeff to racine overnight rail. If I did that, I would increase the hours maybe from 9pm to 5am. They could get the same savings save some service and not run trains virtually empty.

Essential employees and early morning travelers would need the Blue Line more than you think. Those 1-2am arrivals or a 4-5am departures are rough (but from experience, necessary).

[BusHunter]

3 hours ago, MetroShadow said:

Essential employees and early morning travelers would need the Blue Line more than you think. Those 1-2am arrivals or a 4-5am departures are rough (but from experience, necessary).

On a bad weather night in the winter passenger flights do run into the early am.  But a bus shuttle would suffice, you wouldnt lose the service in a worse case scenario. But your still not cutting the budget down so if they need to cut where do they cut? No more purple line express? Possibly Raise fares? Would riders prefer a complete overnight shutdown of the entire system versus more daily cuts? It's all on the table. 

[Mr.NewFlyer1051]

CTA has just released the 2021 budget and looks like no service or fare changes to service 

[BusHunter]

That's good. I might actually get the opportunity to work there. They were getting the biggest piece of the federal pie. Wonder why things are so dire at Pace? It's really incredible the cta has actually expanded service if you count all the artics on main line routes. But I know they are not running all the #156's they used to run. It almost seems if there is a service cut lightfoot doesnt want anyone to know it. Well see how it goes. 

[Tcmetro]

There were some cuts at the summer service change, mostly the routes that have been running extremely empty. I believe the 134 went from every 2-3 minutes to every 5-10 or so.

Good to see CTA holding things steady. I'd imagine that off-peak ridership has held up better than peak times. Some office workers have started to return, so I would only imagine that ridership is going to increase. 

Pace said that the reason they're making the cuts permanent is because they can only temporarily reduce service for 12 months. I assume they're getting the hearings out of the way at budget time. They've said that when ridership rebounds they'll consider adding the service back. (but that's a topic for another thread)

The capital plan has some really interesting stuff. Seems like more work coming to the Blue Line and some added accessible stations.

[MetroShadow]

On 10/22/2020 at 12:38 PM, BusHunter said:

That's good. I might actually get the opportunity to work there. They were getting the biggest piece of the federal pie. Wonder why things are so dire at Pace? It's really incredible the cta has actually expanded service if you count all the artics on main line routes. But I know they are not running all the #156's they used to run. It almost seems if there is a service cut lightfoot doesnt want anyone to know it. Well see how it goes. 

A chunk of the Pace service is peak period service, including the low ridership feeders. Take them out, and about 50% of the ridership is majority legacy services (Pulse, 208, 250, 270, 290, 301, 311, 318, 349, 350, 352, 353, 565, 606, etc).

The exurbans aren't as heavy as the aforementioned but provide some essential connections (272, 554) and (after rewriting the title VI plan) can't be evaluated or suspended for the reasons that legacy routes (apples to cantaloupe).

Express routes is something you can take it or leave it (608, 610, 616 needs employer generators to work, whereas 606 is an core route and the rest of I-90 is supported by grants). I-94 and I-294 expresses are cut for the same reason but maybe they'll return as needed (626 is a legacy connector).

Comparing Pace to CTA isn't a fair nor equitable approach. Density and the dynamics of the inner and outer suburbs vary wildly and the services are far different. 

[BusHunter]

Alot of the cuts are employee generated routes like #610 which makes me wonder if the funding was pulled due to contracts being rescinded. But there are cuts to the I-90 service which are grant routes, as you say, so how do you cut a grant? Only the state or feds can do that. Theres even going to be cuts to the I-55 service as well as pulse 270. Again it makes me wonder how it can be done if there was funding to create those routes. With Metra and CTA not making a single cut, it seems as if Pace is not trying hard enough. I'm also wondering if Pace as a company could possibly fail. If the winter Covid does 3 to 4 times the damage as last spring, where will that leave Pace? 

[MetroShadow]

On 10/27/2020 at 3:00 PM, BusHunter said:

Alot of the cuts are employee generated routes like #610 which makes me wonder if the funding was pulled due to contracts being rescinded. But there are cuts to the I-90 service which are grant routes, as you say, so how do you cut a grant? Only the state or feds can do that. Theres even going to be cuts to the I-55 service as well as pulse 270. Again it makes me wonder how it can be done if there was funding to create those routes. With Metra and CTA not making a single cut, it seems as if Pace is not trying hard enough. I'm also wondering if Pace as a company could possibly fail. If the winter Covid does 3 to 4 times the damage as last spring, where will that leave Pace? 

They survived the Great Recession with making adjustments to routes that definitely weren't performing (MED feeders, 696/699, 767, UP-W Feeders, etc). You have to right size the operations so that you get the ridership that exists (and conversely, prevent the death cycle). You could request a temporary pause of grant funds for extenuating circumstances (655 and 889 were reused for 895). Since 2011, Service Planning had made efforts to adjust and make leaner changes to service so that the core network (30 routes comprise of roughly 70% of the ridership plus needed connectors). If ridership drops like it has been for the last eight months, then you make continual adjustments. Same with the satellite cities.

Case in point here: AC Transit has suspended their Transbay Routes in March 2020 only to bring back a handful of trips in August, and basically working 70% of pre-COVID levels across the board. Ridership has started to track upward; including the students at Cal (who choose to stay on campus).

Pace can and will manage this (at one point, not really the agency that got as much support from the RTA). Remember: agencies aren't out to make a profit and one has to operate service based on the ridership they have. 

[MetroShadow]

On 10/16/2020 at 12:52 PM, artthouwill said:

Considering how Pace has cuts in service for its 2021 budget, I wonder what CTA will actually propose.

This is what I would propose 

Reduce Red Line owl service frequency from 15 minutes to 30 minutes.

Eliminate Blue Line owl service.

Eliminate bus routes 1, 11,18,24,30,31,37,43,4448,54A,55A,85A,96,100,124,134,143,165.

ELIMINATE the downtown service on the 28.

Eliminate service east of the Garfield Red Line on route 59, if bot the entire route.

Also - if we're proposing service cuts, remember the golden rule here: justify why we have to make the cuts!

[artthouwill]

14 minutes ago, MetroShadow said:

Also - if we're proposing service cuts, remember the golden rule here: justify why we have to make the cuts!

Thats easy.  The bus routes I mentioned are all low ridership.  As for the Blue Line, current owl see has 2 30 minute gaps and 1 60 minute gap.  My thought only eliminated 2 trains in each direction.   Obviously with a 60 minute gap, demand us very low.    The Red Line has the fastest owls of any CTA service.  I do think current rudershp supports 15 minute owl services,  but 30 minute owl service would align with CTA'S other owl services.

[Sam92]

18 hours ago, artthouwill said:

Thats easy.  The bus routes I mentioned are all low ridership.  As for the Blue Line, current owl see has 2 30 minute gaps and 1 60 minute gap.  My thought only eliminated 2 trains in each direction.   Obviously with a 60 minute gap, demand us very low.    The Red Line has the fastest owls of any CTA service.  I do think current rudershp supports 15 minute owl services,  but 30 minute owl service would align with CTA'S other owl services.

Yeah for now 30 min would be ok with the red line but once bars open up those late night crowds are INSANE so they should at least be ready to restore Arnold lease back to 20 min when that part goes back to normal 

[BusHunter]

21 hours ago, MetroShadow said:

Also - if we're proposing service cuts, remember the golden rule here: justify why we have to make the cuts!

What really puts my head in a spin is that Metra and CTA are not cutting at all. I know Metra ridership is down by 3/4, so how can they continue to run the service? By all indications, we will be going through the hardest next 5 months we have ever been through. Covid numbers are in record territory and it's still the fall. On a halloween eve last night at 1230 in the morning hardly anyone was out on a friday. I see things downscaling with rough seas ahead. It's just a matter of who can weather the storm. I understand the cuts of Pace are necessary, but they edging closer to the precipice. After awhile theres no longer a network then it fails. We will see who stands after this is done but I think change is coming. Transitwise things may be the same buit they will be merged due to failing entities. Really it's the only way the funding can be distributed fairly. 

[Tcmetro]

Metra is running reduced service. They've said they are looking at a total review of service, so we might see a public hearing soon. If they're following the same rules as Pace, they'll have to have a public hearing to make the temporary schedule permanent. 

CTA cut some service in the summer pick. I believe the 120, 121, 125, 134, 135, 136, 143, 148, and 156 had pretty significant rush hour frequency cuts. I think the 1 and the 2 also had frequency reductions. 

We haven't seen a full ridership report since June so it's hard to say how things are standing now. 

[YoungBusLover]

1 hour ago, Tcmetro said:

Metra is running reduced service. They've said they are looking at a total review of service, so we might see a public hearing soon. If they're following the same rules as Pace, they'll have to have a public hearing to make the temporary schedule permanent. 

CTA cut some service in the summer pick. I believe the 120, 121, 125, 134, 135, 136, 143, 148, and 156 had pretty significant rush hour frequency cuts. I think the 1 and the 2 also had frequency reductions. 

We haven't seen a full ridership report since June so it's hard to say how things are standing now. 

During the summer I had the Hyde Park express and there wasn't much of a reduction in the frequency with that route which had decent ridership before labor day. I'm pretty sure the ridership report wouldn't show much of a drastic change I think.