And the next garage to get New Flyers is...

[Busjack]

The truth about the Forest Glen New Flyers:

The roadeo is next week, and the buses are there to allow the Forest Glen contestants to get used to driving one so they won't be at a disadvantage against other garages' operators.

The two Novas at North Park are just to replace the two New Flyers lost, because NP's spare ratio is tighter. The buses will be traded back soon.

Thanks for clearing that up (remember what I said).

One would think, however, that drivers would ride their own mounts at the roadeo, but I guess that isn't the case. Also one wonders about spending money on "recreational activities" if things are so tight.

[jajuan]

Thanks for clearing that up (remember what I said).

One would think, however, that drivers would ride their own mounts at the roadeo, but I guess that isn't the case. Also one wonders about spending money on "recreational activities" if things are so tight.

You were right Busjack. That is why I held back on any speculation because I knew like you that rmadison or someone else who as knowledgeable as he would have the real answers.

[Busjack]

You were right Busjack. That is why I held back on any speculation because I knew like you that rmadison or someone else who as knowledgeable as he would have the real answers.

Basically, I was right only in saying don't come to any conclusion. Since the conclusions before my post were either that it was on the Blue Line Shuttle or a loaner, my thinking was going more in BusHunter's direction. But, by now I don't stick my neck out in trying to predict the unpredictable CTA management.

If some of you remember wrestling about 25 years ago, there was the "Unpredictable Johnny Rodz." Except that it was predictable that he would lose. Off topic, but somewhat the opposite of what we have here.

[jajuan]

Basically, I was right only in saying don't come to any conclusion. Since the conclusions before my post were either that it was on the Blue Line Shuttle or a loaner, my thinking was going more in BusHunter's direction. But, by now I don't stick my neck out in trying to predict the unpredictable CTA management.

If some of you remember wrestling about 25 years ago, there was the "Unpredictable Johnny Rodz." Except that it was predictable that he would lose. Off topic, but somewhat the opposite of what we have here.

That's what I was referring to. I come to no solid conclusions regarding the actions of CTA management these days. I like to take the wait and see postion on their next moves.

[nflyer22]

#1837 was on the #36 yesterday.

Yep, saw it myself on the #36 as well today.

[BusHunter]

The truth about the Forest Glen New Flyers:

The roadeo is next week, and the buses are there to allow the Forest Glen contestants to get used to driving one so they won't be at a disadvantage against other garages' operators.

The two Novas at North Park are just to replace the two New Flyers lost, because NP's spare ratio is tighter. The buses will be traded back soon.

So NF's at FG goes down the drain!! Most likely then I would say the NF's will end up at 77th to consolidate 40 footers there and 77th Nova's will head to FG. When the #600's arrive ( the #800's were 2 months late and the #900's were 10 months late) 74th should start getting some used #1000's. BTW, On Sunday I spotted #1846 on the #29 and #1839 was motoring around on the Blue line Shuttle.

[tobuadantoq]

Hopefully the rest of the NFs will arrive at Chicago and Forest Glen. trade with North Park would be great!

(Today I rode #6858 between Mich/Pearson and Union Station)

I wish Novas are running #22-Clerk

[jajuan]

Hopefully the rest of the NFs will arrive at Chicago and Forest Glen. trade with North Park would be great!

(Today I rode #6858 between Mich/Pearson and Union Station)

I wish Novas are running #22-Clerk

With skyrocketing fuel costs putting the squeeze on the budgets of transportation providers, from the airlines to local transit systems, I can't support anymore trading and swapping around of the buses that are here, not that I supported it much to begin with. Any fuel usage needs to be from having that bus in service on a route or as an L shuttle, transport to the shops for maintenance work that can't be done at the garage level, or winter warming bus usage during times of emergency in coordination with the city emergency response departments. Moving buses all around the city just for the sake of swaps between the garages just doesn't cut it anymore. I can overlook the swap of older buses to make room for newer buses coming in faster than the retirements are occurring.

[nflyer22]

With skyrocketing fuel costs putting the squeeze on the budgets of transportation providers, from the airlines to local transit systems, I can't support anymore trading and swapping around of the buses that are here, not that I supported it much to begin with. Any fuel usage needs to be from having that bus in service on a route or as an L shuttle, transport to the shops for maintenance work that can't be done at the garage level, or winter warming bus usage during times of emergency in coordination with the city emergency response departments. Moving buses all around the city just for the sake of swaps between the garages just doesn't cut it anymore. I can overlook the swap of older buses to make room for newer buses coming in faster than the retirements are occurring.

Yeah, I gotta give it all to jajuan, because we've seen all the swaps going on for almost the past year, from the New Flyers and Novas between Archer and Chicago, to some of the TMCs and Flxibles between 103rd, 74th, 77th, Kedzie, and North Park, plus the Flyers between 74th and 77th, and now, the numerous Nova shuffles between Forest Glen, Archer, and 77th. If you think about it, each bus average about 4 miles per gallon (based from the Hybrid testing several months back), and transporting it across the city to another garage costs it at least 1 - 3 gallons. For me, I still don't see bus considation, namely because of the non-variety in buses in neighborhoods, and like before, it's a waste of gasoline transporting about 40 - 100 across the city (unless they are used on a route that leads to around the garage), thats about 50 - 150 gallons gone just by transporting a whole group of buses just for considation.

I would sort of support New Flyers for Forest Glen and North Park, because those garages are the 2 that I know of that do have some buses for outside storage, and since the Flyers are newer, they should have less of a problem starting the bus than some older ones, such as the 6000 Flxibles, 5800 Flyers, and maybe even the Novas (which are in some need of a rehab).

Long story short, I don't think CTA should start criticizing other problems for the revenue deficit, rather, look at all problems, including the ones that may lurk inside itself, and work out what can be done best to stretch each dollar coming in for what it's worth.

[Buslover88]

With skyrocketing fuel costs putting the squeeze on the budgets of transportation providers, from the airlines to local transit systems, I can't support anymore trading and swapping around of the buses that are here, not that I supported it much to begin with. Any fuel usage needs to be from having that bus in service on a route or as an L shuttle, transport to the shops for maintenance work that can't be done at the garage level, or winter warming bus usage during times of emergency in coordination with the city emergency response departments. Moving buses all around the city just for the sake of swaps between the garages just doesn't cut it anymore. I can overlook the swap of older buses to make room for newer buses coming in faster than the retirements are occurring.

I agree with all of this.

[Busjack]

I agree with all of this.

I sort of, with the following observations:

Remember those who said "buses are replaced in place." Well, we know better now.

I can't say whether consolidating for maintenance purposes is a net savings, but since that supposedly has been done, there isn't further justification for moving around (other than an L Shuttle emergency or the like). The Roadeo certainly isn't justification for having 2 new buses predominantly sit in the FG yard. Yet the swaps continue.

Since, to bus fans' dismay, it has been demonstrated that fungible units need not be at a garage in any numeric order (witness the low 1300s and 1731-1760) and the process is retire the worst bus next, just deliver the next new bus to the garage that has the next piece of junk. Stop the reports that something that was supposed to be retired a year ago was transferred from Chicago to Kedzie to 103rd, to....

[trainman8119]

How long have I been barking about all of this swapping nonsense !!! I'll rest my case. When all of this silliness stops, then I can take the "budget crisis" more seriously, and then and only then will I support all the the talk about how the seniors are costing the agencies so much money and how now administrative jobs need to be cut. Hogwash.

[BusHunter]

How long have I been barking about all of this swapping nonsense !!! I'll rest my case. When all of this silliness stops, then I can take the "budget crisis" more seriously, and then and only then will I support all the the talk about how the seniors are costing the agencies so much money and how now administrative jobs need to be cut. Hogwash.

It may be nonsense to swap buses back and forth, but there will be a lot more of it, because from what I've seen things change almost weekly. Just yesterday I spotted #6870 back on the #24. That's it's second trip back south in the last few months. Consolidation mainly tries to lessen the overall fleet numbers, by bringing in a totally workable non problematic fleet. You can see that at 103rd with hardly any 1991 buses coming into the loop. But after a few years that newness effect wears off and you are right back where you started. I can't help but see a bus increase a few years down the road, barring service cuts of course. This has all been done to lower the fleet. That's why I think there's a push to order more artics. You can cut the fleet down lessen gas consumption and do a few layoffs all at the same time. It's somewhat similar to what's happening at the supermarket nowadays with the price increases for less product.

[Busjack]

If you think about it, each bus average about 4 miles per gallon (based from the Hybrid testing several months back), and transporting it across the city to another garage costs it at least 1 - 3 gallons.

It may be nonsense to swap buses back and forth, but there will be a lot more of it, because from what I've seen things change almost weekly. Just yesterday I spotted #6870 back on the #24. That's it's second trip back south in the last few months.

The cross-town ones compound the idiocy. It might be one thing if garages on the ends of the same route (such as FG and NP via 92, or 74 and 77) were swapping, in that the bus could be in revenue service but change buses at the other garage on the route, but most of the swaps reported here are across the city, such as the FG and 77 ones. I thought that if CTA were really consolidating, FG should be all Nova, but instead of that happening, there are the various cross-town swaps. That has to burn up the fuel. Of course, not as much as Pace swapping between North Shore and Joliet, as it did last year.

[Buslover88]

How long have I been barking about all of this swapping nonsense !!! I'll rest my case.

I can agree with you with the swapping. It doesn't make no sense whatsoever.

[jajuan]

It may be nonsense to swap buses back and forth, but there will be a lot more of it, because from what I've seen things change almost weekly. Just yesterday I spotted #6870 back on the #24. That's it's second trip back south in the last few months. Consolidation mainly tries to lessen the overall fleet numbers, by bringing in a totally workable non problematic fleet. You can see that at 103rd with hardly any 1991 buses coming into the loop. But after a few years that newness effect wears off and you are right back where you started. I can't help but see a bus increase a few years down the road, barring service cuts of course. This has all been done to lower the fleet. That's why I think there's a push to order more artics. You can cut the fleet down lessen gas consumption and do a few layoffs all at the same time. It's somewhat similar to what's happening at the supermarket nowadays with the price increases for less product.

I just don't see this fleet reduction happening on too big of a scale, despite how good it may look on paper or sound in theory. The one thing to consider is that CTA, Metra and Pace are reportedly seeing a larger ridership increase than they may be able to handle, driven primarily by the higher gas prices sending more people fleeing from their cars to riding buses and trains. If anything, I would say the push for more artics is moreso to handle the larger load. This can be seen in Bustracker and onstreet observations showing NABIs being used even more on 146, 147, and PM 148 trips especially since Sept. 2. You're lucky to see even one NF now on these routes. AM 148 trips are still covered almost exclusively by NFs, but the PM trips have gone back to being almost exclusively NABIs. With the 145, weekday coverage over the summer had more NFs being used along with the NABIs, but it looks like NABI usage has gone back up here as well. I've also been seeing NFs a bit less on the 14 weekdays, though NABI usage had always remained high on this route, and 77th's NABIs have been popping up a bit more on the 3, X3, 4 and X4 despite 77th having a smaller NABI fleet after the March 23rd garage route reassignments went into effect.

[BusHunter]

I just don't see this fleet reduction happening on too big of a scale, despite how good it may look on paper or sound in theory. The one thing to consider is that CTA, Metra and Pace are reportedly seeing a larger ridership increase than they may be able to handle, driven primarily by the higher gas prices sending more people fleeing from their cars to riding buses and trains. If anything, I would say the push for more artics is moreso to handle the larger load. This can be seen in Bustracker and onstreet observations showing NABIs being used even more on 146, 147, and PM 148 trips especially since Sept. 2. You're lucky to see even one NF now on these routes. AM 148 trips are still covered almost exclusively by NFs, but the PM trips have gone back to being almost exclusively NABIs. With the 145, weekday coverage over the summer had more NFs being used along with the NABIs, but it looks like NABI usage has gone back up here as well. I've also been seeing NFs a bit less on the 14 weekdays, though NABI usage had always remained high on this route, and 77th's NABIs have been popping up a bit more on the 3, X3, 4 and X4 despite 77th having a smaller NABI fleet after the March 23rd garage route reassignments went into effect.

In my previous post, I was referring to the up to 900 artics that went to bid recently. This could possibly replace the rest of the #6000's as well as the Novas which will be 12 years old and can be replaced after 2013. This could put as many as 769 artics out there if you add all previous totals. It could reduce the fleet by 250 buses, if you figure on the 2 to 3 ratio. 250 buses less to maintain, to gas up or to drive. And with the artics being mostly hybrid burning the same gas equal to a 40 footer. I've been noticing myself a higher usage of 40 footers on the #6 lately. Some days they appear to not even run an artic hardly at all on there. Yesterday was the first day in a while I saw a high use of artics on the #6. I've also been noticing more #1000's on the #14 lately. Being better mechanically than the NABI's they are most likely more preferred among drivers there.

[Busjack]

I've been noticing myself a higher usage of 40 footers on the #6 lately. Some days they appear to not even run an artic hardly at all on there. Yesterday was the first day in a while I saw a high use of artics on the #6. I've also been noticing more #1000's on the #14 lately. Being better mechanically than the NABI's they are most likely more preferred among drivers there.

This might be explained by running what is available (sort of like the apologia for running Optimas on 80). However, since artics and 40 footers are not fungible, and supposedly there are ridership standards for artics, wouldn't this result in huge overloading (and consequent bus bunching) on the mentioned routes?

[BusHunter]

This might be explained by running what is available (sort of like the apologia for running Optimas on 80). However, since artics and 40 footers are not fungible, and supposedly there are ridership standards for artics, wouldn't this result in huge overloading (and consequent bus bunching) on the mentioned routes?

You would think so. There did seem to be more bus bunching on the #6. It sort of gives you the illusion more buses are out there than there are. My biggest wonder with this was where were 77th NABI's at? The #3 and #4 seem to be mostly 40 footers. I used to see more artics but lately most of what I see are from NP or Kedzie. It would be interesting to see how many of these NABI's are off the rotation for maintenance. With all the reports of NABI tows on here it sounds as if these are becoming high maintenance.

[BusHunter]

Spotted #1844 the other day and was shocked to see someone had graffiti tagged it already. A new bus in it's first week of service. The graffiti was purple and stretched across the entire rear end of the bus where the exterior advertizing would go. I wonder if that just happened or it could've happened in transit to Chicago.

[greenstreet]

Spotted #1844 the other day and was shocked to see someone had graffiti tagged it already. A new bus in it's first week of service. The graffiti was purple and stretched across the entire rear end of the bus where the exterior advertizing would go. I wonder if that just happened or it could've happened in transit to Chicago.

The graffiti probably happened in service. That bus arrived at 103rd on 9/3 or 9/4. It's unlikely a brand new bus would be put out for service with graffiti already on it.

[Guest]

Yesterday I spotted NF #906 and #1349 at Bus and Truck, 34/Pulaski.

[nflyer22]

Spotted #1844 the other day and was shocked to see someone had graffiti tagged it already. A new bus in it's first week of service. The graffiti was purple and stretched across the entire rear end of the bus where the exterior advertizing would go. I wonder if that just happened or it could've happened in transit to Chicago.

Those at 103rd must be pretty fast at cleaning, because I was right by 1844 several minutes ago (4:30 PM) when it stopped at State/Harrison as #29, because I was waiting for a #62 to get home. When it took off, I didn't see anything behind it (except an advertisement), and I was thinking of that as a new bus sighting, until now that I saw that it has been reported, but it had graffiti. Long story short, I saw 1844, but didn't notice anything.

[geneking7320]

I was on 1850 [iIRC] on route 29 this morning.

Any idea what the highest number New Flyer 103rd Garage has received?

Gene

[BusHunter]

Those at 103rd must be pretty fast at cleaning, because I was right by 1844 several minutes ago (4:30 PM) when it stopped at State/Harrison as #29, because I was waiting for a #62 to get home. When it took off, I didn't see anything behind it (except an advertisement), and I was thinking of that as a new bus sighting, until now that I saw that it has been reported, but it had graffiti. Long story short, I saw 1844, but didn't notice anything.

It was under the advertizing. When i saw it it was new and had no advertizing on it yet. It could have been taken care of though. I'm sure 103rd took care of it after bringing it up on a public site that gets a lot of hits from people in the transit industry. BTW, Last weekend #1849 was on the blue line shuttle and #1847 was on the #36 with a graffiti problem of it's own ( white paint across the entire back window on the right side).