Articulant Junk

[busangel]

:angry: IF YOU ASK ME, THE MAN ARTICS WERE BETTER THAN THE NABI ARTICS. I WAS ON THE #14 JEFFERY EXPRESS AND AS SOON AS WE HIT 100TH/YATES OUR BUS SHOOK VIOLENTLY AND THEN CUT OFF, NOT TO MENTION THERE WERE 2 OTHER ARTICS ON 100TH THAT WERE OUT, AND NOT TO MENTION IT WAS THE P.M. RUSH. SOMETHING NEEDS TO BE DONE ABOUT THE MAINTAINENCE OF THE ARTICS. THESE BUSES HAVE HIGHER PRIORITY THAN ANY CTA BUS IN THE SYSTEM.

[Buslover88]

Isn't there a bump at 100th/Yates? If so, the bus probably didn't have enough power to override that bump, but i'm only guessing this because I have ridden NABIs on the #6, #82 and #145 and they never give me a problem. I also think that 103rd's NABIs might have big issues that need to be fixed.

[geneking7320]

Does anyone on this forum have experience (driving or riding) other manufacturers' pusher type artics? Low floor or high floor I'm curious about your experience.

Gene King

[pace2322]

There have been junk since there have been made. Its a Nabi that all u have to say and u know its Big Junk. All there are is 20 more feet of junk then the pace ones or 25 ft if its a 35 ft. As long as its a nabi it will be junk.

[qwantae]

IF YOU ASK ME, THE MAN ARTICS WERE BETTER THAN THE NABI ARTICS. I WAS ON THE #14 JEFFERY EXPRESS AND AS SOON AS WE HIT 100TH/YATES OUR BUS SHOOK VIOLENTLY AND THEN CUT OFF, NOT TO MENTION THERE WERE 2 OTHER ARTICS ON 100TH THAT WERE OUT, AND NOT TO MENTION IT WAS THE P.M. RUSH. SOMETHING NEEDS TO BE DONE ABOUT THE MAINTAINENCE OF THE ARTICS. THESE BUSES HAVE HIGHER PRIORITY THAN ANY CTA BUS IN THE SYSTEM.

I agree, I like the MANs way better, I was mad and crying when they retired them, Scrapped at 77th. They were good buses, their rear door opens automatic like Pace Buses. They ride smoother. The NABIs seems always having suspension and electrical problems plus they are Jumpy like Pace NABIs. But I rode the 1995 NABI high floor articulated bus In Miami from Miami-Dade Transit Agency, they drive also better as MANs. Maybe CTA should've got the High Floors like Miami, DC, Denver, Pittsburgh instead of Low Floors.

I remember back in summer 2004 before they retire MANs, I have to wait over 30 min to a hour for MANs to come to a stop (#14, 147, 145-6) because I like riding them with 40 ft MAN.

[Buslover88]

Maybe CTA should've got the High Floors like Miami, DC, Denver, Pittsburgh instead of Low Floors.

The CTA would be sued if they got High Floors again...

[qwantae]

There have been junk since there have been made. Its a Nabi that all u have to say and u know its Big Junk. All there are is 20 more feet of junk then the pace ones or 25 ft if its a 35 ft. As long as its a nabi it will be junk.

I agree. Some people like me like older better than new stuff, mostly new things gets worser, we'll just have to deal with it I guess, If They want to drive or ride older buses, go to Canada.

[busfan4022]

The CTA would be sued if they got High Floors again...

They purchased the Orion I's~

So...

Not quite.

[rmadisonwi]

I actually have ridden other artics, namely the New Flyer (both high and low-floor) buses in Vancouver, BC and Seattle, WA.

Main problem with the low floors was the bumpiness of the ride when driving over a poorly maintained street (which can really be said of any low-floor bus, and most vehicles in general). I think maintenance-wise, Vancouver's problem was with engines not having enough power to climb their steep hills (a full bus can go to an embarrassingly slow crawl up some of the steeper grades). However that was, in part, due to a decision by their management to go with cheap fuel rather than the right kind of fuel. Plus, the engine that gave them trouble (Detroit Diesel Series 50) is no longer in production, so any new buses wouldn't get that motor anyway.

They also had one bus burn up (photos here) a few years ago. Stuff happens.

However, if CTA could keep the latest New Flyers in decent shape for a good number of years, I don't see why a fleet of D60LFs couldn't serve us well. I was a bit disappointed with the latest order for 400 buses being all 40-footers. I'd think we could have converted about 50-100 of those options to artics. Even ignoring the poor reliability of the NABIs, there still aren't enough artics to put out the ideal level of service (routes such as Clark and Sheridan would be good candidates to go artic and perhaps thin out some of the service during the peak-of-the-peak, thus saving a bit of money).

Mechanically, they're more or less the same as the 40-foot New Flyers (except for the artic joint and related equipment), so spare parts inventory wouldn't really have to be increased all that much. Vancouver's problem is that they ran the wheels off of them for five or six years with a very thin spare ratio, and now they're having to cut back on weekend artic work, and supplement weekday service with 40-footers to catch up on maintenance. Something similar will probably happen to CTA's artics because the good ones probably aren't getting enough mechanical attention, with all of the resources put into getting the more troublesome buses running. An additional order of buses would not only provide additional capacity during the peaks, but also a better spare ratio during the off-peak hours, enabling them to be better maintained.

[rvwnsd]

Does anyone on this forum have experience (driving or riding) other manufacturers' pusher type artics? Low floor or high floor I'm curious about your experience.

Gene King

Here in San Diego we have both New Flyer low-floor artics (deployed within the last 6-7 years) and Flyer high-floor artics (they were here brfore I got here in 2000). Both can be a little bumpy, but no more so than the old MANs. I've ridden the Chicago NABIs and really didn't like them. They felt a lot like the old Ikarus buses that SD ditched a couple of years ago.

[sw4400]

However, if CTA could keep the latest New Flyers in decent shape for a good number of years, I don't see why a fleet of D60LFs couldn't serve us well. I was a bit disappointed with the latest order for 400 buses being all 40-footers. I'd think we could have converted about 50-100 of those options to artics. Even ignoring the poor reliability of the NABIs, there still aren't enough artics to put out the ideal level of service (routes such as Clark and Sheridan would be good candidates to go artic and perhaps thin out some of the service during the peak-of-the-peak, thus saving a bit of money).

Mechanically, they're more or less the same as the 40-foot New Flyers (except for the artic joint and related equipment), so spare parts inventory wouldn't really have to be increased all that much. Vancouver's problem is that they ran the wheels off of them for five or six years with a very thin spare ratio, and now they're having to cut back on weekend artic work, and supplement weekday service with 40-footers to catch up on maintenance. Something similar will probably happen to CTA's artics because the good ones probably aren't getting enough mechanical attention, with all of the resources put into getting the more troublesome buses running. An additional order of buses would not only provide additional capacity during the peaks, but also a better spare ratio during the off-peak hours, enabling them to be better maintained.

It depends on which series you're referring to, rmadisonwi. The 1994 D40LF's(5800-Series) have had their share of issues, and we did lose several to fires in the first few years. I'll agree with you that the Detroit Diesel Series-50 engine is terrible. This is the engine the 5800's are equipped with. Many a time, these buses squeal like there are some worn belts in there, not to mention they creak and moan when being driven. IMO, they may not make it to 2010. The 2006 D40LF's(1000-Series) are much better than their predecessors. These buses are equipped with a low-emission Cummins Series engine. They are the fastest buses we have in the fleet so far. The DE40LF's(800-Series) are a very questionable hybrid series. Not even a year old, and they start breaking down? It's a good thing we only ordered 10 of the GM/Alison Series. Maybe the ISE Thundervolts will be a little better.

Look here, this is a pic of a 5800 with a Series-50 Detroit looking almost like it's leaking fuel while broke down.

http://forum.chicagobus.org/index.php?s=&a...post&p=4554

[Busjack]

Look here, this is a pic of a 5800 with a Series-50 Detroit looking almost like it's leaking fuel while broke down.

http://forum.chicagobus.org/index.php?s=&a...post&p=4554

You forgot that the 5800 series buses that were overhauled got new engines, the same as the ones in the buses that were later purchased. See the contemporaneous press release. So, it wasn't the original Detroit Diesel that leaked in that picture.

[busangel]

FYI-77th lost their artics to North Park and 103rd. I seen bus#7724 on the #14 two weeks ago.

FYI-77th gained more TMCs as a result to that loss.

FYI-#3 King Drive route will be finally extended south of 95th due to a contract end with Chicago State.

[geneking7320]

FYI-77th lost their artics to North Park and 103rd. I seen bus#7724 on the #14 two weeks ago.

FYI-77th gained more TMCs as a result to that loss.

FYI-#3 King Drive route will be finally extended south of 95th due to a contract end with Chicago State.

Questions:

1) If 77th lost their artics to 103 are artics on routes 3 King Dr and 4 Cottage Grove being run from 103rd ? I ask because I thought I saw artics on those routes this week.

2) Where would be the new south terminal of route 3 King Dr be? Also wouldn't there be a conflict with Pace route 353?

Gene King

[RJL6000]

Where would be the new south terminal of route 3 King Dr be?

That new South Terminal for the #3, if it does get extended south of 95th, would be one mile south at 103rd.

[rmadisonwi]

1) 15 of 77th's 40 artics were moved out about two months ago, with 7 going to North Park and 8 going to 103rd. There are still 25 artics left at 77th. No routes have been moved between garages in the past few months.

2) The 3 is *not* being extended to 103rd. The last service stop will be advertised as 95th and King Drive, and the bus will turn around via 99th to return northbound. The bus will not serve stops south of 95th. I'm not 100% sure, but it might have to do with operating rights along King Drive, though I could be wrong since I wasn't involved in that decision at all, and only recently learned that the route wouldn't carry passengers past 95th.

The route would have ended at the Red Line if only there was room in the terminal for another route.

Route 4 will end at 94th & Burnside.

[sw4400]

You forgot that the 5800 series buses that were overhauled got new engines, the same as the ones in the buses that were later purchased. See the contemporaneous press release. So, it wasn't the original Detroit Diesel that leaked in that picture.

I would have to disagree, Busjack.

Quote Directly from this link http://www.transitchicago.com/news/archpre...ticleid=124582:

In addition to the ongoing overhaul of the 6000 series Flxible buses, the CTA is currently overhauling all 65 of its New Flyer buses (5800 Series) at a cost of $7.3 million.

The overhaul process includes rebuilding or upgrading the engine and transmission

And based on the difference in idle and driving sounds of the 5800's compared to the 1000's, the CTA did not replace the Detroit Series-50.

More proof...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wskYoauF7nI

Sound familiar???

[rmadisonwi]

Back in 2000, the Series 50 was still in production. The link provided by busjack says that "[t]he overhaul includes a new 2000 model year Exhaust Gas Recirculation (EGR) engine, the addition of a particulate filter and a new transmission."

I guess the real question, then, is the quality of the overhauls, or how they've been maintained since then. I'm not a mechanic, but it does seem that the 5800s seem to be a bit worse for wear than other buses of the same age that I've ridden both here (6000s) and elsewhere (including D40LFs from the mid 1990s, about the same age as these buses). Heck, I'd settle for finding a 5800 with a destination sign that actually works.

[geneking7320]

1) 15 of 77th's 40 artics were moved out about two months ago, with 7 going to North Park and 8 going to 103rd. There are still 25 artics left at 77th. No routes have been moved between garages in the past few months.

2) The 3 is *not* being extended to 103rd. The last service stop will be advertised as 95th and King Drive, and the bus will turn around via 99th to return northbound. The bus will not serve stops south of 95th. I'm not 100% sure, but it might have to do with operating rights along King Drive, though I could be wrong since I wasn't involved in that decision at all, and only recently learned that the route wouldn't carry passengers past 95th.

The route would have ended at the Red Line if only there was room in the terminal for another route.

Route 4 will end at 94th & Burnside.

Can you shed any light on the buses not going into the CSU campus situation? :blink:

[Archon]

IF YOU ASK ME, THE MAN ARTICS WERE BETTER THAN THE NABI ARTICS. I WAS ON THE #14 JEFFERY EXPRESS AND AS SOON AS WE HIT 100TH/YATES OUR BUS SHOOK VIOLENTLY AND THEN CUT OFF, NOT TO MENTION THERE WERE 2 OTHER ARTICS ON 100TH THAT WERE OUT, AND NOT TO MENTION IT WAS THE P.M. RUSH. SOMETHING NEEDS TO BE DONE ABOUT THE MAINTAINENCE OF THE ARTICS. THESE BUSES HAVE HIGHER PRIORITY THAN ANY CTA BUS IN THE SYSTEM.

Nothing beats a Crown/Ikarus Z86. The worst!!

[rmadisonwi]

Can you shed any light on the buses not going into the CSU campus situation?

All I know is the school is going to kick CTA out in a month. I think they want to use that land for something.

[Busjack]

I would have to disagree, Busjack.

Quote Directly from this link http://www.transitchicago.com/news/archpre...ticleid=124582:

In addition to the ongoing overhaul of the 6000 series Flxible buses, the CTA is currently overhauling all 65 of its New Flyer buses (5800 Series) at a cost of $7.3 million.

The overhaul process includes rebuilding or upgrading the engine and transmission

And based on the difference in idle and driving sounds of the 5800's compared to the 1000's, the CTA did not replace the Detroit Series-50.

More proof...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wskYoauF7nI

Sound familiar???

Your link doesn't work (got an sql error). Mine did. That press release says:

The Chicago Transit Board approved the nearly $7.3 million contract with Bus & Truck of Chicago, Inc., to provide the labor and material for the mid-life overhaul of up to 65 New Flyer (5800 Series) low floor buses. The overhaul includes a new 2000 model year Exhaust Gas Recirculation (EGR) engine, the addition of a particulate filter and a new transmission.

EGR engines take a portion of gas exhaust and run it back through the engine. In other words, re-burning the exhaust, which makes the engine run cleaner. A particulate filter removes soot particles from the exhaust virtually eliminating particulate matter emissions into the air.

Youtube proves nothing (especially since the title of that page is "Mississauga Transit New Flyer D60LF"--not CTA New Flyer D40LF). Now, maybe you are saying that CTA was lying or that Chicago Bus took the money and didn't do the job (or, possibly more likely, that the CTA PR machine doesn't know what it is talking about). However, going back to your initial assertion, you have nothing to support it at the moment. I provided a working link and used cut and paste to take the CTA's exact language, which you can verify (adding only the bold for emphasis).

[Busjack]

Route 4 will end at 94th & Burnside.

A turnaround that was previously mentioned comes back to life?

[sw4400]

Your link doesn't work (got an sql error). Mine did. That press release says:

Youtube proves nothing (especially since the title of that page is "Mississauga Transit New Flyer D60LF"--not CTA New Flyer D40LF). Now, maybe you are saying that CTA was lying or that Chicago Bus took the money and didn't do the job (or, possibly more likely, that the CTA PR machine doesn't know what it is talking about). However, going back to your initial assertion, you have nothing to support it at the moment. I provided a working link and used cut and paste to take the CTA's exact language, which you can verify (adding only the bold for emphasis).

Ok.

1. It works for me(and I have a computer with some serious issues right now)

2. If you can access that clip of a New Flyer being driven, listen to it! I know it's a Mississauga Transit bus, ok? I didn't post it for that reason, I posted it for the reason that the bus sounds the same as our 5800-Series buses do today.

To the other chicagobus.org members, I ask you to click this link and tell me what you think(if you can access it, I can with no sql errors). Tell me and Busjack if you think this bus model in the video sounds just like our 5800-Series buses.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wskYoauF7nI

[trainman8119]

Tell me and Busjack if you think this bus model in the video sounds just like our 5800-Series buses.

Sorry, sounds like a NABI to me.