#4000 Arrives

[ryanbytes]

The NABI BRT-60 (Cummins L+Gas) was (is) an excellent bus...its a very different from the 60-LFW...I miss driving those actually. Very Nice.... I miss Metro and its operations...now I'm trying to get used to the Cta and their operations.

Seeing the amazing looking designs that are available instead of the brick look just blows my mind. Looks are everything. I'm sure a fleet of sleek buses in a paint scheme more creative than what the CTA has now would go a long way in bringing on new riders. Sounds like a long shot but think of how different you feel when you climb or slide into a sweet car with great lines as opposed to an anonymous Ford Everycar. Take that to the buses. What would you feel better walking on to and shelling out money to ride on? A bus that looks like it's speeding down the street while standing still or a wall of glass and metal?

[RailBus63]

Seeing the amazing looking designs that are available instead of the brick look just blows my mind. Looks are everything. I'm sure a fleet of sleek buses in a paint scheme more creative than what the CTA has now would go a long way in bringing on new riders. Sounds like a long shot but think of how different you feel when you climb or slide into a sweet car with great lines as opposed to an anonymous Ford Everycar. Take that to the buses. What would you feel better walking on to and shelling out money to ride on? A bus that looks like it's speeding down the street while standing still or a wall of glass and metal?

I disagree - in today's economy, I don't think transit agencies should be overspending on fancy BRT-styled buses when a less-expensive version of the exact same bus can be purchased. Service that is convenient and runs on time, using clean and well-maintained vehicles, operated by courteous and well-trained professional drivers - that will attract new riders. On the other hand, no one will care how sleek the bus is or how cool the paint job may be if the bus is late, filthy, or breaks down, or is driven by a rude jerk.

[geneking7320]

I disagree - in today's economy, I don't think transit agencies should be overspending on fancy BRT-styled buses when a less-expensive version of the exact same bus can be purchased. Service that is convenient and runs on time, using clean and well-maintained vehicles, operated by courteous and well-trained professional drivers - that will attract new riders. On the other hand, no one will care how sleek the bus is or how cool the paint job may be if the bus is late, filthy, or breaks down, or is driven by a rude jerk.

This reminds me of the cigarette commercial which asked

"what do you want - good grammar or good taste?"

Why not both?

I want good looking buses operated by a well managed agency having good professional drivers.

My opinion is that most "BRT" front ends are not very attactive to me with the exception of the Gillig BRT.

I think New Flyer's other buses (Xcelsior, Revised, and standard) look better than their BRT.

I also prefer the standard NABI front to it's BRT.

[end of rant].

Beauty is in the eye of the beholder. :D

[Busjack]

Beauty is in the eye of the beholder.

Of course. But when you can get a conventional bus for $370K, and "beauty" costs $500K, there is the difference that RailBus recognizes.

It would be different if you were only dealing with Orion, which just supports the VI Next Generation, but so long as NF continues to supply the conventional bus for less, the result is predictable and rational, even if I don't personally endorse the tin cans typical of 90s "design."

[daerah]

Once LA Metro decided to repaint their fleet and add on "Transit TV"....I did in fact promote a new and increased ridership. I agree ...it public transportation has a pleasant and convenient image...people are more inclined to to give it a try.

For example...LA Metro Buses were all White with Yellow strips along side of it. Of course, they were different routes based upon their respected destination routes.

Now today....they're repainting their fleet, to identify with the demand of the people...sort of to set a trend.

Most folks in LA know that....a Red & Silver bus, is a Rapid (BRT) bus.....and a Orange & Sliver bus is a Local bus, making all stops, and a Blue and Silver bus, means its an express bus. And so on...and the transit tv is a nice addition to the bus,..to help make it seem peaceful while you're sitting/standing on an over crowed bus in rush hour traffic.

I wish cta would have went with the paint scheme of 7800...NABI 45C....oh well...wishful thinking.

[Busjack]

Once LA Metro decided to repaint their fleet and add on "Transit TV"....I did in fact promote a new and increased ridership. I agree ...it public transportation has a pleasant and convenient image...people are more inclined to to give it a try.

I wish cta would have went with the paint scheme of 7800...NABI 45C....oh well...wishful thinking.

As previously noted, the DOT memorandum states that the BRT buses will be separately branded, including a unique system livery, at least by the end of Phase II, so the indication is that 4000 is not part of that. (Looking over that thread, a lot of our other surmises are out the window by now.)

It is off topic for here, but, anyway, Transit TV has received nothing but criticism on Pace.

[sw4400]

As previously noted, the DOT memorandum states that the BRT buses will be separately branded, including a unique system livery, at least by the end of Phase II.

Wouldn't the whole 'paint scheme' idea be a little hard to work with, say this made-up scenario...

-CTA has 50 BRT-schemed buses. Of those 50, 28 are needed to have full BRT service on all routes applicable to this service. But there are only 24 available due to usual problems with CTA equipment occassionally(breakdowns, accidents, etc...). The CTA is short 4 BRT-schemed buses and must borrow 4 non BRT-schemed buses from a garage to cover the routes.

Wouldn't this be a little confusing to the passengers waiting for a bus? It'd be easier IMO to make a new route for the LED displays...

Example:

49: Regular Western Ave. route

X49: Western Express route

B49 or R49 or T49: BRT Western Ave. route

This would be easier, less cost involved, and easier in the event extra buses are needed for whatever reason. Also, say the CTA does swaps, those taken off BRT service will have to go to the paint shop to get changed to the regular scheme, disabling that bus for a few hours, perhaps a couple of days.

[MVTArider]

Wouldn't this be a little confusing to the passengers waiting for a bus? It'd be easier IMO to make a new route for the LED displays...

Of course you can look at it the other way as well, what if all the BRT buses, painted or wrapped are working but they need regular route coverage?

IMO they should go with colored LED signs, orange/amber sign for regular service and say blue/white for BRT and just flip light color between the two as needed. I'm sure the technology is out there, i've certainly seen enough multi-colored signs. Or if that is too expensive then they could do normal signage on regular service and black letters/#'s with LED background for BRT service.

BTW daerah, how did LA Metro handle it if they ran out of say, red buses for express but needed one for an express run?

EDIT: I forgot to say, nice photos

[ibebobo]

Of course you can look at it the other way as well, what if all the BRT buses, painted or wrapped are working but they need regular route coverage?

IMO they should go with colored LED signs, orange/amber sign for regular service and say blue/white for BRT and just flip light color between the two as needed. I'm sure the technology is out there, i've certainly seen enough multi-colored signs. Or if that is too expensive then they could do normal signage on regular service and black letters/#'s with LED background for BRT service.

BTW daerah, how did LA Metro handle it if they ran out of say, red buses for express but needed one for an express run?

EDIT: I forgot to say, nice photos

As much as I think the current sceme need a little spicing up, especially for the BRT routes, I agree 100% about using a better destination sign. Blue and white is sooooo different that is would accomplish the same job. And the different route designations combined with the colors would certainly be sufficient and IMO probably much less expensive in the long run.

[Busjack]

Obviously, though CTA would have to put a multicolor destination sign in all buses (all or hybrid articulated ones) to avoid the problem of having to use a spare. Otherwise, if the bus with the blue sign isn't available, route B49 would then have a bus with an orange one.

CTA pronouncements that the new L cars would have orange signs indicates that it is not thinking ahead.

[Guest]

The NABI BRT-60 (Cummins L+Gas) was (is) an excellent bus...its a very different from the 60-LFW...I miss driving those actually. Very Nice.... I miss Metro and its operations...now I'm trying to get used to the Cta and their operations.

Those L.A. BRT buses are so ridiculous looking. The wheel covers just add to the ugliness!! :)

[daerah]

Of course you can look at it the other way as well, what if all the BRT buses, painted or wrapped are working but they need regular route coverage?

IMO they should go with colored LED signs, orange/amber sign for regular service and say blue/white for BRT and just flip light color between the two as needed. I'm sure the technology is out there, i've certainly seen enough multi-colored signs. Or if that is too expensive then they could do normal signage on regular service and black letters/#'s with LED background for BRT service.

BTW daerah, how did LA Metro handle it if they ran out of say, red buses for express but needed one for an express run?

EDIT: I forgot to say, nice photos

HAHAHA...this scenario is a quite a reality..even in Los Angeles.

You would always see a "Local" Orange bus on a "Rapid" Red bus route..... you hardly saw a Red Rapid Bus on a Orange Local Route though...since there are more local buses than Rapid buses. Sometimes they would run out of Gray/Silver Rail-type-buses and put on Red Rapids or Orange Locals...lol

Haha..,yes that a possibility that will happen. As long as you yell out to the people..this is the RAPID...they'll catch on....either that, or they'll catch on when you pass up their stop by a quarter mile. Haha.

I have a personal vendetta against cta and archer garage...I think they should run artics on the x49 ..that bus gets toooooo crowded! a nice X- (express) scheme would be great too.

[tobuadantoq]

Hopefully this bus arrive at Forest Glen so they can trade with Nova which originally delivered at Chicago Garage with either Kedzie or North Park

[Busjack]

Hopefully this bus arrive [sic] at Forest Glen so they can trade with Nova which originally delivered [sic] at Chicago Garage with either Kedzie or North Park

4000s possibly could go to FG for Belmont or Lawrence. Trading Novas to Kedzie to North Park is very unlikely, especially after stocking close to 200 NFs at each.

[MVTArider]

HAHAHA...this scenario is a quite a reality..even in Los Angeles.

...

Really I was just guessing it might have happened once while you were driving for them. It will be interesting to see what happens when CTA (and MVTA too) paints/wraps up buses especially for BRT then

BTW are all the LA Metro buses Orange/Blue/Red now? I think even with the mixing of colors sometimes its still a cool way to designate service.

[daerah]

Here's a quick update on the artic new flyer...

I saw 4006 at the garage...I was too far away to get a picture of it...since the mechanic was driving in back to the maintenance bays. However, I did see 4001...and the rear of the bus..is slightly different from the 1000s and 4000 series new flyer... I didnt get a picture of it thoroughly like I wanted to...but its pending.

And...the other morning...I saw the tow truck dragging in bus number 4000....I hope 4001-4006 arent going to share the same fate...so soon, I should say.

And as for LA Metro fleet paint school in (Red-Rapid, Orange-Local, Sliver/Gray-Alignment, and Blue-Express)....they're about 80 percent done. The former standard color scheme for metro buses were white,..with a yellow strip going thru the bus...and it reads "Metrobus". They paint the buses in sequence during their "midlife" rehab.Where the bus get new seating, lighting, electrical equipment, overall inspections, and systems upgrage"...during that time, is when they change the paint...along with changing the Twin Vision and Luminator flip dot destinations sign to the orange amber LED style sign.

[daerah]

Here's a quick update on the artic new flyer...

I saw 4006 at the garage...I was too far away to get a picture of it...since the mechanic was driving in back to the maintenance bays. However, I did see 4001...and the rear of the bus..is slightly different from the 1000s and 4000 series new flyer... I didnt get a picture of it thoroughly like I wanted to...but its pending.

And I also noticed that 4001 and 4006 didnt have that ugly wrap on top...displaying the "More Room To Breathe" ad. Yay! Just the regular... "Clean Air Hybrid Bus" and "www.transitchicago.com" wrap.

[MT0851]

Which routes would these buses be on on weekdays?

[jajuan]

Which routes would these buses be on on weekdays?

Since we're a ways off from BRT beginning, for now it would probably be routes that you see NABIs on weekdays, 156 LaSalle being an example.

[jesi2282]

The 4000's are in service today, 4002 and 4003 are operating on the #156.

[Busjack]

Even showing up on BusTracker. 4001, too.

[BusHunter]

The 4000's are in service today, 4002 and 4003 are operating on the #156.

Yesterday evening's rush had #4000,#4001,#4002,#4003 and #4005 on the #156. This morning #4006 was on the #156. #4005 was experiencing a problem with it's rear doors last night. The sensor wouldn't read a person's hand on the touch door and had a hard time activating to open the door. People started using the front doors. The rear doors could still be opened, but you had to play with the door to get it to open. I wonder if the touch doors are such a hot idea on artics. At least on #1000's you can force the door open by using a little arm strength. BTW, Daerah's reporting was correct, the rear of #4001 and up are different. They have the rear number decal in the top center of the bus directly above the rear destination sign. It looks better not so crowded in like #4000's number looks.

[MT0851]

Since we're a ways off from BRT beginning, for now it would probably be routes that you see NABIs on weekdays, 156 LaSalle being an example.

I'm not from Chicago (However I'll be visiting in the near future), so what routes get NABIs on weekdays and weekends?

[rmadisonwi]

Yesterday evening's rush had #4000,#4001,#4002,#4003 and #4005 on the #156. This morning #4006 was on the #156. #4005 was experiencing a problem with it's rear doors last night. The sensor wouldn't read a person's hand on the touch door and had a hard time activating to open the door. People started using the front doors. The rear doors could still be opened, but you had to play with the door to get it to open. I wonder if the touch doors are such a hot idea on artics. At least on #1000's you can force the door open by using a little arm strength. BTW, Daerah's reporting was correct, the rear of #4001 and up are different. They have the rear number decal in the top center of the bus directly above the rear destination sign. It looks better not so crowded in like #4000's number looks.

I was also on 4005 last night, and noticed the problem with the rear door opening. I think that's something they'll have to tweak.

Then again, I spoke with a friend who drives buses for a different transit system, who also has New Flyers with the CLASS door technology (as well as the plain old push-bar activated doors), and he had some very unfavorable (and that's an understatement) comments regarding the reliability of CLASS.

[geneking7320]

Speaking of doors...

Can the driver open the rear doors of the 4000s (or 1000s for that matter)?

I have seen times on CTA's NABI artics where the driver opened the rear door and I wondered if that cans be done on the NF buses.

Gene King