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6400-series Nova LFS - Updates & Retirements

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i spotted Nova 6451 running route damen and at had the Garage code A and Window Sticker "7" was it traded from 77 garage recent

With all the swapping lately, it's possible.

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Last month #6610 went to storage. So you can chalk up another Nova (that makes 5) on the side. I wonder if any will come back during the mid life rehab.

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Last month #6610 went to storage. So you can chalk up another Nova (that makes 5) on the side. I wonder if any will come back during the mid life rehab.

If there is a bus shortage, then why are buses going into storage?

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I know 6832 and 6568 were involved in accidents, but I never heard of any accidents involving the other buses 6610 6726 or 6738. Where are these buses? Are they stored at 77th?

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If there is a bus shortage, then why are buses going into storage?

Because they are damaged goods. They were all in accidents or have something terminal wrong with them that puts them in limbo. The term storage to me signifies, that the CTA doesn't want to commit to saying there retired. I don't know if maybe the 12 year FTA guidelines state they can't retire something prematurely unless it is in fact defective, like the NABI's. Even then every effort is most likely exhausted to bring the buses back. Putting them in limbo puts CTA in a comfortable position while the decision is being made to start a restoration or not. The reason I wonder if some will come back during rehab is because if the problem is just terminal, it could possibly be fixed by an influx of new parts that would come in for a rehab, but the longer something is gone the more likely it stays gone. Buses with frame damage like #6832 are most likely gone though.

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...The term storage to me signifies, that the CTA doesn't want to commit to saying there retired. I don't know if maybe the 12 year FTA guidelines state they can't retire something prematurely unless it is in fact defective, like the NABI's. Even then every effort is most likely exhausted to bring the buses back. ...
The other thing is that because 6400s are subject to financial leasebacks, technically CTA doesn't own them (at least outright). You have to wonder what insurance provisions are in the leases, but, at least, CTA has to keep funding the trust to retire the leases until they are over (probably in 2013 or 2014).

I was going to say to follow up the links in that post, but when the CTA redid its site, the link went dead. However, here are links to press releases on the subject (8/7/02, 9/24/03), as well as an updated link to the Financial Report.

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It's my understanding, that cta will use some of federal stimulus monies to retrofit the Novabus'-6400s (half-life/mid-life) overhall. I also understood that cta will replace the transmissions and destination signs to the amber LED twin vision signs, like you see on the 6700s and 6800. You may notice a couple 6400s, 6500s and 6600s with new destination signs from out of the 77th garage.

Regardless, its not quite defined as to what that may EXACTLY mean. Does it mean, cta will just fix certains parts of the already existing ZF transmission, or will they replace and swap out old ZF Transmissions for new ZF Transmission...OR...could cta go in the direction for which I have high-hopes for, by completely replacing the Nova's ZF Transmission for Allison Transmission, that of which the 1930s-2029 have? ( I doubt it, but still HOPE for it )

We all know how slow the Novas are, ESPECIALLY when the air compressor / air conditioner is engaged...its agonizing slow, I know. lol

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...

We all know how slow the Novas are, ESPECIALLY when the air compressor / air conditioner is engaged...its agonizing slow, I know. lol

They used to be quite fast, and there were complaints about them knocking passengers around (some of which I witnessed). Are the engines getting all clogged up or something?

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We all know how slow the Novas are, ESPECIALLY when the air compressor / air conditioner is engaged...its agonizing slow, I know. lol

I ride FG NOVA's a lot(6700's-6800's), and I don't remember a sluggish one... I ride them to the HIP and they FLY down the street from Oak Park down to Harlem at 40-45mph!!!

To me, and this might just be me, sluggish was the TMC's and Flxible(5300's)... Those buses in that same stretch of Oak Park to Harlem could only manage 25-35mph.

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I ride FG NOVA's a lot(6700's-6800's), and I don't remember a sluggish one... I ride them to the HIP and they FLY down the street from Oak Park down to Harlem at 40-45mph!!!

To me, and this might just be me, sluggish was the TMC's and Flxible(5300's)... Those buses in that same stretch of Oak Park to Harlem could only manage 25-35mph.

I haven't noticed a sluggish one either. On a sidenote, daerah I remember you saying a few of the 1100s are slower after some tinkering. I can't say I noticed that either. Just slow drivers among a small few of your fellow Kedzie operators. I can board a Flyer on one route and have it creeping along. I can then board that same bus a different day on say 145 or 148 and if it's one of those lighter traffic moments, it flies up the Drive.

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I haven't noticed a sluggish one either. On a sidenote, daerah I remember you saying a few of the 1100s are slower after some tinkering. I can't say I noticed that either. Just slow drivers among a small few of your fellow Kedzie operators. I can board a Flyer on one route and have it creeping along. I can then board that same bus a different day on say 145 or 148 and if it's one of those lighter traffic moments, it flies up the Drive.

The 'tinkered' with buses that I've reported to be somehow modified, all EVENTUALLY get up to speed...but the important factor of it, thats missing now is the acceleration and torque...it takes an agonizing longer time to get up and down the street...I hate it. And yes..all operators dont drive the same...I can move a modified bus down the street. I'm trying to master a new technique with my footing. Theres a few tricks I've developed to try and remedy the transmission shifting gears too soon and all that..but at the end of the day, it puts a strain on my entire leg (ankle, foot, knee, etc)...you may need to pay closer attention to those specified bus numbers...the problem does exists...other operators have noted this, and another on this site... it may not be as noticeable to the regular passenger, but it should be a cinch for another operator, or transit enthusiast "fan" to notice & figure it out.

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I haven't noticed a sluggish one either. On a sidenote, daerah I remember you saying a few of the 1100s are slower after some tinkering. I can't say I noticed that either. Just slow drivers among a small few of your fellow Kedzie operators. I can board a Flyer on one route and have it creeping along. I can then board that same bus a different day on say 145 or 148 and if it's one of those lighter traffic moments, it flies up the Drive.

I haven't experienced the NOVAs when they were brand new...I heard they were faster...but after some time, and not being properly maintained...things are more inclined to fail..perhaps after the face-lift of those NOVAs, they may be champions on the street again perhaps. Im not quite sure if they've been modified though.

I remember 7558 was re-powered with a cummins engine. lol it slowed the hell out of that bus, I noted another nabi like that, but forgot the number.

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The 'tinkered' with buses that I've reported to be somehow modified, all EVENTUALLY get up to speed...but the important factor of it, thats missing now is the acceleration and torque...it takes an agonizing longer time to get up and down the street...I hate it. And yes..all operators dont drive the same...I can move a modified bus down the street. I'm trying to master a new technique with my footing. Theres a few tricks I've developed to try and remedy the transmission shifting gears too soon and all that..but at the end of the day, it puts a strain on my entire leg (ankle, foot, knee, etc)...you may need to pay closer attention to those specified bus numbers...the problem does exists...other operators have noted this, and another on this site... it may not be as noticeable to the regular passenger, but it should be a cinch for another operator, or transit enthusiast "fan" to notice & figure it out.

I guess I haven't noticed because one or two of the modified ones you mentioned were driven by a couple of those drivers I mentioned who drive slow regardless of what bus they have and by that point I'm too aggravated to really feel like paying attention to it. :P

Like you, I do wonder what's in store for the NOVAs. Though they do seem to still move at a good clip, now that I think about it some of those engines do sound as if they're working harder than they used to for that same speed I've known them to get.

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I really don't know if there poor maintenance on CTAs part or if they are really modifying these buses to run slower. It is a pain to operate a slow bus. I did a couple of transfers to the south shops from Chicago i was reading some of the maintenance papers in the mechanics office and i found out that a lot of the problems for our slow buses is a blown turbocharger. Their is a different sound between a bus with a working turbocharger and one without one. 1037 1352 1345 1320 are some that are slow 1333 has a problem with the brakes releasing it takes about 5 seconds before the bus starts rolling when coming from a complete stop. Bus 1335 sounds like the bus only has 1 long gear its sounds like this bus never shifts gears. Also has anyone notice how some of the 19s and 20s seem to smoke excessively? I've seen some brand new flyers that smoke way more than any 5300 did. The entire drive-train on all flyers is under warranty for 6 years. I think the CTA are screwing up these buses or just doing enough work to get the bus rolling again without doing a complete repair job. Just my .02

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I really don't know if there poor maintenance on CTAs part or if they are really modifying these buses to run slower. It is a pain to operate a slow bus. I did a couple of transfers to the south shops from Chicago i was reading some of the maintenance papers in the mechanics office and i found out that a lot of the problems for our slow buses is a blown turbocharger. Their is a different sound between a bus with a working turbocharger and one without one. 1037 1352 1345 1320 are some that are slow 1333 has a problem with the brakes releasing it takes about 5 seconds before the bus starts rolling when coming from a complete stop. Bus 1335 sounds like the bus only has 1 long gear its sounds like this bus never shifts gears. Also has anyone notice how some of the 19s and 20s seem to smoke excessively? I've seen some brand new flyers that smoke way more than any 5300 did. The entire drive-train on all flyers is under warranty for 6 years. I think the CTA are screwing up these buses or just doing enough work to get the bus rolling again without doing a complete repair job. Just my .02

Oh no the 1333 me and tdh hate that bus man! To me alot of the older flyers ie 1000s and 1300 are getting slower and the bad part is there not that old.I am going to hate to see whats going to come about when there get 6 years old will u have to get out and push? Tdh told me 1440 is just like 1333 so watch out with that one!

I had 1317 on the 121 yesterday morning and i didnt think that bus was going to make it up the hill>

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Oh no the 1333 me and tdh hate that bus man! To me alot of the older flyers ie 1000s and 1300 are getting slower and the bad part is there not that old.I am going to hate to see whats going to come about when there get 6 years old will u have to get out and push? Tdh told me 1440 is just like 1333 so watch out with that one!

I had 1317 on the 121 yesterday morning and i didnt think that bus was going to make it up the hill>

The Nova's are even worse. Some can barely pull down the street. Archer's seem to be even worse than FG's. The #1000's run circles around these right now. No wonder all the #1200's are out at Fg. These #6400's do need the rehab, they should get noticeably faster afterwards. There tranny's are wore out, 9 years for some is a long time. BTW, Chicago now has #1927 it was on the #X54 yesterday and this morning it's on the #53. So 5555, TDH and the guys at Chicago have a few more boxes to drive around. It could be worse you could have a Nova!!

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I have noticed that many of the Chicago New Flyers are quite loud from the outside, almost sounding like the muffler on a car that would be failing. Many of the 1300's and 1400's that Chicago sent to North Park have this loud engine. Without looking, if you were to hear one travelling down the street, you could bet which series bus this would be. Don't hear it much with the 1100's left at Kedzie or the 77th 1200's.

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The Nova's are even worse. Some can barely pull down the street. Archer's seem to be even worse than FG's. The #1000's run circles around these right now. No wonder all the #1200's are out at Fg. These #6400's do need the rehab, they should get noticeably faster afterwards. There tranny's are wore out, 9 years for some is a long time. BTW, Chicago now has #1927 it was on the #X54 yesterday and this morning it's on the #53. So 5555, TDH and the guys at Chicago have a few more boxes to drive around. It could be worse you could have a Nova!!

And thats new? That bus has been at Chicago for two weeks now! When i saw it that what i said more pos boxes!

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And thats new? That bus has been at Chicago for two weeks now! When i saw it that what i said more pos boxes!

It came in with #1929. I didn't know I was on a time clock. :rolleyes: Don't worry you still have a few #6000's. :P You can always work for FG, the #6000's will probably retire there last anyway. :lol:

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Of note the story says the buses are fully depreciated and will be sold as is with the CTA holding no responsibility for maintenance on the buses after the transfer to City Colleges. So pretty much two of the oldest NOVAs out of the fleet are the two candidates involved in the transaction meaning we know they very likely came out of 77th garage.

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Of note the story says the buses are fully depreciated and will be sold as is with the CTA holding no responsibility for maintenance on the buses after the transfer to City Colleges. So pretty much two of the oldest NOVAs out of the fleet are the two candidates involved in the transaction meaning we know they very likely came out of 77th garage.

This may sound like a stupid question, but could this mean that the 6400 Series Nova bus retirement is starting?

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This may sound like a stupid question, but could this mean that the 6400 Series Nova bus retirement is starting?

Probably not in earnest until the Ryan project is over.

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