More Bus Moves

[artthouwill]

Seems like the 8 would be better off at 77th than Kedzie seeing as the terminal is right down the street from the garage

Agreed

At one time 77th did have the 8 Halsted, which it shared with the Limits garage. When the garage at 52nd /Cottage Grove closed in the early 80s, routes 1,2, 6, and 14 were shifted to 77th, and routes 8, 42 Halsted/Archer, and 71st were shifted from 77th to 69th. Limits still shared the 8 and 9 with 69th until it closed. At that point, the 8 and 9 operated exclusively from 69th ( later 74th), and 71st returned to 77th.

[jajuan]

Seems like the 8 would be better off at 77th than Kedzie seeing as the terminal is right down the street from the garage

And 74th, which is now sharing the 8 with Kedzie, also is close to the south terminal so that is pretty much moot. Casting aside that we already had this discussion a long while ago, if route assignments at garages got restricted to what garage is near and down the street from a route terminal, it would get pretty dicey on how to manage some routes in service and get any buses on the street. By that logic 55A, 55N, 62H, 63W, and 165 all of which are now at 74th wouldn't be able to get any buses because no garage is anywhere near them. This was true even when Archer was still open and those routes were assigned there. The other question that comes to mind is what would you move at 77th to make room for the 8 without without creating more excessive deadheading?

[Busjack]

By that logic 55A, 55N, 62H, 63W, and 165 all of which are now at 74th wouldn't be able to get any buses because no garage is anywhere near them. This was true even when Archer was still open and those routes were assigned there.

Except that they appear to be interlined with at Routes 55, 59, and 63, from the run number groups.

The other question that comes to mind is what would you move at 77th to make room for the 8 without without creating more excessive deadheading?

The assumption (at least I had) was that you wouldn't move anything, at least until such time as someone explained why 77s capacity went down from about 400 to 250. Other than "equitably spreading the work," no one has yet.

[jajuan]

Except that they appear to be interlined with at Routes 55, 59, and 63, from the run number groups.

The assumption (at least I had) was that you wouldn't move anything, at least until such time as someone explained why 77s capacity went down from about 400 to 250. Other than "equitably spreading the work," no one has yet.

I get what you're saying on the possible interlining with the Midway routes and it does make some sense from the aspect of not having too many buses sitting idle at the Midway terminal given some of the headways involved. As for the question I raised about what would need to be moved to assign the 8 at 77th rather than Kedzie, I was speaking along the lines of what route(s) would you reassign from 77th to accommodate the 8 given the capacity issue and the fact 77th's buses are currently used elsewhere.

[Busjack]

...As for the question I raised about what would need to be moved to assign the 8 at 77th rather than Kedzie, I was speaking along the lines of what route(s) would you reassign from 77th to accommodate the 8 given the capacity issue and the fact 77th's buses are currently used elsewhere.

At least I indicated that I wouldn't, for the reason that I stated, until someone demonstrates differently.

[jajuan]

At least I indicated that I wouldn't, for the reason that I stated, until someone demonstrates differently.

Right. It's easy to state a wishlist that certain routes be housed at certain garages but the logistics of how to accomplish it have to be kept in mind. So with the statement you stated in mind along with we already debated this about the 8 quite some time ago well enough should be left alone until it could be demonstrated otherwise that capacities at different garages were changed to sort of equalize the work between garages. And with Kedzie now once again having 24 hour routes in the 60 and 62 along with sharing of some of the routes it gained coverage of in the big spring pick route swaps of March 23, 2008 as well as its number of assigned buses dropping through systemwide garage adjustments through the retirements of the 6000s, 2010 service cuts and closing of Archer, it doesn't run into the night time issue of buses parked on the front driveways in front of bay doors that I mentioned as much as it did when it first gained North Lake Shore express runs and operations on the 8.

[qwantae]

I would see 77th taking the 30, 71, and 2 completely in that scenario seeing as they as closer to the garage.

No wonder I see more than few Novas on Route 30 on South Chicago.

[qwantae]

Agreed

At one time 77th did have the 8 Halsted, which it shared with the Limits garage. When the garage at 52nd /Cottage Grove closed in the early 80s, routes 1,2, 6, and 14 were shifted to 77th, and routes 8, 42 Halsted/Archer, and 71st were shifted from 77th to 69th. Limits still shared the 8 and 9 with 69th until it closed. At that point, the 8 and 9 operated exclusively from 69th ( later 74th), and 71st returned to 77th.

Back in days around 1992, was Route 71 operated from 69th garage? Because I remember rode Americana on that route on between late 1992-1993.

[artthouwill]

Back in days around 1992, was Route 71 operated from 69th garage? Because I remember rode Americana on that route on between late 1992-1993.

Yes. Around that time they had 9000s (GMCs) and the MAN Americanas.

[artthouwill]

And 74th, which is now sharing the 8 with Kedzie, also is close to the south terminal so that is pretty much moot. Casting aside that we already had this discussion a long while ago, if route assignments at garages got restricted to what garage is near and down the street from a route terminal, it would get pretty dicey on how to manage some routes in service and get any buses on the street. By that logic 55A, 55N, 62H, 63W, and 165 all of which are now at 74th wouldn't be able to get any buses because no garage is anywhere near them. This was true even when Archer was still open and those routes were assigned there. The other question that comes to mind is what would you move at 77th to make room for the 8 without without creating more excessive deadheading?

Yes 74th shares with K, but usually that is only during rush hour as the bulk of the 8 is operated by Kedzie. Also, 77th has the capacity to add buses and routes, so unless they are using the extra space for storing scrap buses, that is not an issue. While there are some routes that require a longer deadhead distance (keyword require), the idea is to operate efficiently. I'm not necessarily saying that 74th couldn't or shouldn't operate the 8, but I am saying that you could make a case for 77th to operate since it has room for buses and the terminus is 3/4 of a mile from the garage compared to a 4 mile deadhead from Kedzie to Halsted. However CTA makes it work is how they work it.

[Sam92]

Yes 74th shares with K, but usually that is only during rush hour as the bulk of the 8 is operated by Kedzie. Also, 77th has the capacity to add buses and routes, so unless they are using the extra space for storing scrap buses, that is not an issue. While there are some routes that require a longer deadhead distance (keyword require), the idea is to operate efficiently. I'm not necessarily saying that 74th couldn't or shouldn't operate the 8, but I am saying that you could make a case for 77th to operate since it has room for buses and the terminus is 3/4 of a mile from the garage compared to a 4 mile deadhead from Kedzie to Halsted. However CTA makes it work is how they work it.

Well, 77th does have some flxibles and old NABI's there but they are way in the back facing the Dan Ryan.

[Sam92]

No wonder I see more than few Novas on Route 30 on South Chicago.

Yes. It's usually 50/50 between the two garages although 103rd comepletely takes over on Sundays seeing as it doesn't operate north of 92nd

[BusHunter]

I get that point.

The rest of the discussion brings up why 77th was restricted to about 250 buses when the first big shift was made (at the time 29 was sent to 103). Supposedly that has capacity for about 400 between the barns. Is there some sort of building safety issue or the like with the oldest barns?

77th has never really had 400 buses run out of it at least since the 1970's anyway. Beverly was a smaller garage than 103rd, so during the 70's 77th hovered around 340-310 buses. 52nd would still be around during that period as well. When 103rd was built it could house about 120-150 buses more than Beverly. Around the same time 52nd closed (5 years sooner) I guess the rationale was to establish 103rd to take the place of Beverly and 52nd's capacity. So 77th has hovered in the 200's since 103rd's existence. If 77th had 400 buses now, then 103rd would have dramatically less. A good question would be why not shift more buses south from overcrowded places like Kedzie to 74th and just make the 77th service area bigger by taking over some of the 74th territory. Thinking of the future, they may have to do something like that anyway if the #49 or #9 goes BRT with artics. They would then be faced with where do they store those buses?

[Guest DevalDragon]

There's a nice big empty garage on Archer they could use...

77th has never really had 400 buses run out of it at least since the 1970's anyway. Beverly was a smaller garage than 103rd, so during the 70's 77th hovered around 340-310 buses. 52nd would still be around during that period as well. When 103rd was built it could house about 120-150 buses more than Beverly. Around the same time 52nd closed (5 years sooner) I guess the rationale was to establish 103rd to take the place of Beverly and 52nd's capacity. So 77th has hovered in the 200's since 103rd's existence. If 77th had 400 buses now, then 103rd would have dramatically less. A good question would be why not shift more buses south from overcrowded places like Kedzie to 74th and just make the 77th service area bigger by taking over some of the 74th territory. Thinking of the future, they may have to do something like that anyway if the #49 or #9 goes BRT with artics. They would then be faced with where do they store those buses?

[jajuan]

77th has never really had 400 buses run out of it at least since the 1970's anyway. Beverly was a smaller garage than 103rd, so during the 70's 77th hovered around 340-310 buses. 52nd would still be around during that period as well. When 103rd was built it could house about 120-150 buses more than Beverly. Around the same time 52nd closed (5 years sooner) I guess the rationale was to establish 103rd to take the place of Beverly and 52nd's capacity. So 77th has hovered in the 200's since 103rd's existence. If 77th had 400 buses now, then 103rd would have dramatically less. A good question would be why not shift more buses south from overcrowded places like Kedzie to 74th and just make the 77th service area bigger by taking over some of the 74th territory. Thinking of the future, they may have to do something like that anyway if the #49 or #9 goes BRT with artics. They would then be faced with where do they store those buses?

That's assuming Kedzie still has the same number of buses on par with what it had when the 6000s were still around and bus service was still about 10% higher than currently the case. It doesn't. The number has decreased through swaps here and there with 74th or 103rd in various seasonal picks and in part from decrease in bus service in 2010. Also with having the 60 and 62 assigned there and running 24 hours, Kedzie's number of buses has been more manageable than when the number hovered around 300 after first gaining North Lake Shore express runs beyond just operating the 134, the 8, and more downtown Metra shuttle runs and having no 24 hour routes. As for BRT service on Western or Ashland, for now I'm just looking at that as another CTA wish list until current service is stabilized and not under a constant cloud of being on the chopping block, costing more or both and thus driving away customers who seek other options and keeping transit in the area on this precarious footing.

[ChicagoNova]

77th's Nova #6501 spotted southbound on Route #26 South Shore Express.

[cta5658]

77th's Nova #6501 spotted southbound on Route #26 South Shore Express.

That's a fill-in run, that's what i'm predicting

[ChicagoNova]

77th's Nova #6501& 6403 spotted southbound on Route #26 South Shore Express.

[ChicagoNova]

That's a fill-in run, that's what i'm predicting

The garage code read "1", meaning 103rd.

[cta5658]

The garage code read "1", meaning 103rd.

i still believe it had the "77" sticker

[jajuan]

There's a nice big empty garage on Archer they could use...

One problem with that. CTA closed it early last year because of last year's budget crunch, so it's not likely they plan on reopening it especially given their reasoning for closing in the first place that Archer was a pretty old garage from the streetcar days of a century ago, making it very expensive to maintain.

[artthouwill]

77th's Nova #6501& 6403 spotted southbound on Route #26 South Shore Express.

Most likely a loaner from 77th.

Has anyone ever heard of fill-ins from other garages? For example in this scenario, if 103rd were short on drivers (standbys, etc) but 77th had available standby drivers, could a 77th bus actually fill in on that run or would 103rd just blow the run altogether?

[cta5658]

Looks like 103 gained an artic, #4056 is on the #14

[Sam92]

Looks like 103 gained an artic, #4056 is on the #14

Which means 4057 should be on it's way back with it. BTW, what ever happened to 4058? Last thing I heard was that they had to keep it the way it was for a lawsuit but that was about 6 months ago.

[Busjack]

Which means 4057 should be on it's way back with it. BTW, what ever happened to 4058? Last thing I heard was that they had to keep it the way it was for a lawsuit but that was about 6 months ago.

Well, someone has to do the Rule 214 inspection. Lawsuits in Cook County take a lottttttttt of time.