CTA Bus Garage Rosters

[Busjack]

...

@ Busjack: TMC's range was 4400-4875(474 buses)

We went through this before. They were not. 474 buses would get you only to 4873. There were 491 buses, but minus the 15 4900s, there were 476. That would get you to 4875, in case I made that mistake.

[garmon757]

Originally for 74th roughly 4590-465? (somehow 4654 rings a bell).

4800s were 77th.

Originally (and apparently not original originally, since reportedly 77th got some first, and then they were sent to NP) NP had 4400 to 455?, K had 455?-47??. and 77 had 47??-4876.Then, supposedly the south side complained that they didn't have air conditioned buses, there was the swap of the upper 4700s to FG for some 5300s to 77.

When the 5800s and 6000s arrived, FG got its 5300s back, 74 got as indicated above, and K's 4400s were split between 103, A and C, again roughly speaking. That's about where your observations fall.

When the rehabs started, number blocks of 4400s got scattered, but the garages that got Novas (77, A, C, F) lost all 4400s.* For a while, NP got the rehabbed 4400s in about any order, because the rehabs included installing preheaters. As noted above, the 6000s already had them, but 6000s appeared at NP only as loaners. Also, it was basically after the rehabs and the swaps after the Novas that 74 got the roughly 4800s.

___________

*BTW, for the "where to go to die," 484 Novas were more than enough to replace 190 some Flyers, but while they also replaced some MAN Americanas, the garages with Americanas didn't get any Novas. The only exception was the interim between 2001 and late 2002 where FG got some Americanas to retire Flyers until it got Novas. K and NP were stuck with Americanas until they got NABIs, where is where that series died.

It seems like the CTA been through so much chaos during the 90s and early 2000s. It's like saying Kedzie and Northpark were the low balled garages because of the Americanas. And you're right about the Novas because it could've provide more flexibility beside the Flyers being replaced by them. It could've replace not all Americanas but I'm guessing about half of them. I don't know what Kruesi was doing to had so much mess going on because of the fact that I was young.

[garmon757]

With regards to the TMC's at FG, this is how I remember the assignments in 2001-2002(buses had A/C at the time) being a regular #80 rider. This was when FG had Flxibles in the 5500's up to 5619.

TMC's I saw servicing #80 during this time frame:

4567,4684,4700,4705,4708,4710,4713,4745,4758,4762,4787,4857,4859,4860,4862,4864,4865,4866,

4867,4868,4869,4870,4871,4872,4873

The upper 4800's stick out especially because of their interior numbers at the time... they looked like they were painted on with a stencil set for 4864-4870.

@ Busjack: TMC's range was 4400-4875(474 buses)

I think during that time Forest Glen's Flxibles were #5530 or 35 (Chicago had the lower 5500s)-#5643 (I think one of the 5600s were out of service)

[Busjack]

I think during that time Forest Glen's Flxibles were #5530 or 35 (Chicago had the lower 5500s)-#5643 (I think one of the 5600s were out of service)

There is always float at the margins of a block, but Chicago's were generally 5400s. FG's were essentially as sw said, but it was not clear when 103 got some in the 5640s, or 5650s or so. BTW, 103 had 5300s to about 5398 until there was a weird swap of most but not all of them to 77. Archer roughly had 5660s-5769.

By saying that the 4400s had A/C, that essentially meant that they were rehabbed, although the A/C and engine projects were separate (sort of like the engine overhauls and lighting now). As I indicated above, rehabbed meant scattered all over the place.

[sw4400]

I think during that time Forest Glen's Flxibles were #5530 or 35 (Chicago had the lower 5500s)-#5643 (I think one of the 5600s were out of service)

I'll have to take your word for it... I can't remember how low the FG Flxible Metro "B's" went into the 5500's. The highest one I've seen on #80 was 5619.

[garmon757]

There is always float at the margins of a block, but Chicago's were generally 5400s. FG's were essentially as sw said, but it was not clear when 103 got some in the 5640s, or 5650s or so. BTW, 103 had 5300s to about 5398 until there was a weird swap of most but not all of them to 77. Archer roughly had 5660s-5769.

By saying that the 4400s had A/C, that essentially meant that they were rehabbed, although the A/C and engine projects were separate (sort of like the engine overhauls and lighting now). As I indicated above, rehabbed meant scattered all over the place.

It had to be in the mid 90s when 103rd had them in the 5640s-50s. I remember me and my mom rode #5646 on #119 to visit my sister in 1997. What was very weird about the 5300s is that #5301 and #5302 had the same rapid flip-dot signs just like the ones #5545-#5769.

[garmon757]

I'll have to take your word for it... I can't remember how low the FG Flxible Metro "B's" went into the 5500's. The highest one I've seen on #80 was 5619.

This may sound crazy but back in 2002 I was trying to figure out why Archer #5754 was operating #85 a couple months before my family moved to the suburbs.

[sw4400]

This may sound crazy but back in 2002 I was trying to figure out why Archer #5754 was operating #85 a couple months before my family moved to the suburbs.

I don't know when the switchover from Metro "B" to Metro "E" occurred at FG. I think it was during the 2003-2004 timeframe, then the Novas came to the Glen around the same time(I knew this because I always corresponded FG as a garage whose bus numbers all began with a "6").

[garmon757]

I don't know when the switchover from Metro "B" to Metro "E" occurred at FG. I think it was during the 2003-2004 timeframe, then the Novas came to the Glen around the same time(I knew this because I always corresponded FG as a garage whose bus numbers all began with a "6").

It was very interesting because it also happened at Chicago Garage in late 2006 when I was riding #5746 on #66 eastbound. Chicago had a couple of them for some odd reason.

[ChicagoNova]

I don't know when the switchover from Metro "B" to Metro "E" occurred at FG. I think it was during the 2003-2004 timeframe, then the Novas came to the Glen around the same time(I knew this because I always corresponded FG as a garage whose bus numbers all began with a "6").

The Novas actually started coming to Forest Glen in 2002 after the last 5300 Series Flxible bus left the garage. It was 6's with a few 4's (4400 Series). I remember this because it was the same year I joined the Navy.

[jajuan]

Lol I was the little guy back then!!! Now it makes sense why #49 is being operated by 74th and North Park. Speaking of 69th (no wonder why 74th's run numbers starts with a 6), was the TMCs in the mid-high 4800s? I'd remember North Park had them starting at 4400-lower 4500s, Chicago (Lawndale) in the mid-high 4500s to lower 4600s, Archer mid-high 4600s, Forest Glen 4700s, and 103rd I'm not so sure about that one.

Among the TMCs, 69th/74th pretty much initially got 4479 up to that mid-high 4500 range where Chicago's TMC count began. 4479-4510 approximately would find their way to Kedzie during either spring pick or summer of 1996 as 74th got its share of 6000s. They shored up Kedzie's ability to convert the 12 Roosevelt and the old 37 Sedwick/Ogden route into lift routes during that year. 74th's TMC count would eventually settle to about the 4511 to up to about the 4570s I think. Archer did have TMCs in the 4600s primarily, which started in the 4630s. Those TMCs that Archer had were ones that Kedzie gave up after Kedzie got 6000s to operate its wheelchair accessible routes instead. FG's 4700s were from 77th due to a swap of TMCs for FG's 5600s I think may have been a move to even out mileage among wheelchair buses shortly before the 6000s came to town, of which 77th got the first. 103rd's TMCs were actually those TMCs that were reassigned from Kedzie to Archer in 1995 as mentioned above. Therefore 103rd's TMCs were also 4600s starting in the 4630s. Archer gave all those TMCs up to 103rd some time around 2001 after Archer was selected as the next garage behind 77th to receive CTA's current 6400 series Novas.

[sw4400]

Anyone remember TMC #'s 4864-4870? All other TMC's had the standard sticker numbers above the windshield, but these buses I remember as I said had white stenciled-style numbers rather than the sticker numbers. Anyone know if they were delivered like that? Like I said, when these buses were being used out of FG when I rode them on the #80, I remember that distinctively(they all had the A/C units then).

[Busjack]

This may sound crazy but back in 2002 I was trying to figure out why Archer #5754 was operating #85 a couple months before my family moved to the suburbs.

I would occasionally see an Archer Flx at Howard, even though Flxs were never assigned to NP. I guess Archer had enough to make loaners.

[BusHunter]

Anyone remember TMC #'s 4864-4870? All other TMC's had the standard sticker numbers above the windshield, but these buses I remember as I said had white stenciled-style numbers rather than the sticker numbers. Anyone know if they were delivered like that? Like I said, when these buses were being used out of FG when I rode them on the #80, I remember that distinctively(they all had the A/C units then).

No they came with stickered numbers just like the rest. Things got changed a little with those when they got the clever devices around when they were rehabbed. They used to have the rear door mirror right above the farebox. It was wide about a foot. Then they changed it so that the mirror were high and to the right of the operator. I think there mirror stems were breaking or something. All the interior number decals were redone though for the whole fleet. Those were just the lucky ones that weren't. Probably ran out of number decals.

[garmon757]

I would occasionally see an Archer Flx at Howard, even though Flxs were never assigned to NP. I guess Archer had enough to make loaners.

I guess so since you mentioned North Park borrowing some. I must say, Archer was a decent, stable garage to me.

[BusHunter]

It had to be in the mid 90s when 103rd had them in the 5640s-50s. I remember me and my mom rode #5646 on #119 to visit my sister in 1997. What was very weird about the 5300s is that #5301 and #5302 had the same rapid flip-dot signs just like the ones #5545-#5769.

Actually it was just #5302 that had that. CTA I believed received that as a prototype of the later buses. It's no different than #6445 being delivered with amber signs. I don't really remember cummins buses at FG. That must have been a lucky one day thing. Archer really took care of those Cummins buses. I remember they would freshly polish #5750-52 with Armor All so the interior components were all shiny. Those would strickly run the #162 or an Archer/Stevenson service. The windows were not etched either and this was when there was no vandal resistant film.

[jajuan]

Actually it was just #5302 that had that. CTA I believed received that as a prototype of the later buses. It's no different than #6445 being delivered with amber signs. I don't really remember cummins buses at FG. That must have been a lucky one day thing. Archer really took care of those Cummins buses. I remember they would freshly polish #5750-52 with Armor All so the interior components were all shiny. Those would strickly run the #162 or an Archer/Stevenson service. The windows were not etched either and this was when there was no vandal resistant film.

No I think Garmon may be correct that 5301 also had this. I do remember 103rd having more than one such Flx out of its original allotment having this. They would gain more at 103rd out of the 5545-5769 group that survived retirement after the numeric sequence of the Flx 5300s' assignments among garages got knocked out of alignment by Archer being the first garage to get NF 1000s while being the garage with the highest fleet number Flx 5300s. I remember Archer's surviving Cummins 5300s getting split between Kedzie and Chicago.

[Busjack]

Anyone remember TMC #'s 4864-4870? All other TMC's had the standard sticker numbers above the windshield, but these buses I remember as I said had white stenciled-style numbers rather than the sticker numbers.....

I'm surprised that a bus historian has not posted a list of 4400s that had forward or backward italic fleet numbers on the slides, or for that matter much bluer belt stripes. Then, at least you knew that a bus had been repainted, and probably rehabbed.

[jajuan]

I'll have to take your word for it... I can't remember how low the FG Flxible Metro "B's" went into the 5500's. The highest one I've seen on #80 was 5619.

Actually before the big swap with Kedzie for Kedzie's Flx 6000s, FG's 5300 series Flxible Metros went into the 5650s with the cutoff fluctuating depending on how many buses Archer needed from pick to pick. By the time of the big swap to Kedzie the highest FG 5300 was 5619 due to Flxible's being displaced and reassigned to make room the Novas, but the original range went into the 5650s around 5652 give or take a few buses depending on what Archer needed as I described. To add on to what I was speaking to Garmon about regarding TMC assignments, the most of the 4700s, including those previously at FG, would find their way to Kedzie due to reassignments stirred up by the NABIs (the NABis having doubled CTA's net artic count) and the first of the 1000s. And to correct myself a bit from that post, Kedzie gained TMCs 4479-4502 from 74th after the 6000s made it to 74th not up to 4510 as I stated. To answer Busjack's question about the 5640s and 5650s that made it to 103rd, as I recall the time frame was pretty much 2008 as the last remaining TMCs at the time were dwindling in number and making their way to 77th. Those Flxibles were part of the what were eventually finding their way to 103rd as the 1000s displaced Flxible 5300s from first Kedzie and then Chicago. As Kedzie was gaining its first set of NF 1000s, it sent surviving Flx 5300s to Chicago. Then as Chicago began getting its first set of 1000s behind 77th Garage, it split its surviving 5300s with 103rd. Those included the 5640s and 5650s that Busjack recalled as well as some remaining 5500s and any surviving 5600s out of 5600-5619 that didn't get sent into retirement at Chicago after the previous move from Kedzie.

[garmon757]

No I think Garmon may be correct that 5301 also had this. I do remember 103rd having more than one such Flx out of its original allotment having this. They would gain more at 103rd out of the 5545-5769 group that survived retirement after the numeric sequence of the Flx 5300s' assignments among garages got knocked out of alignment by Archer being the first garage to get NF 1000s while being the garage with the highest fleet number Flx 5300s. I remember Archer's surviving Cummins 5300s getting split between Kedzie and Chicago.

What had helped me remembered those two because the top boxed flip-dot sign on the back of them (showing the route number) was blank as in never show the route number. I don't know if that was the scenario when they first came out in 1991 but they were never fixed at all prior to retirement.

[BusHunter]

This is what I have as far as the current CTA bus roster: (starting from north to south, descending from newest to oldest) (last updated 3/18/14)

Forest Glen (233 total)

Nova LFS #6400 series (2000 - 2002):
#6471 - #6478, #6489, #6498 - #6520, #6574 - #6593, #6692 - #6725, #6727 - #6737, #6739 - #6831, #6833 - #6875 (233 total)

North Park (286 total)

New Flyer D60LF #4000 series (2008 -2009):
#4043 - #4070, #4072, #4073, #4117 - #4207 (121 total)

New Flyer D40LF #1000 series (2006 - 2009):
#1266 - #1270, #1301 - #1328, #1375 - #1429, #1761 - #1797, #1855 - #1859, #1861 - #1897 (odd numbers) #1899 - #1903, #1905 - #1925 (odd numbers) (165 total)

Chicago (277 total)

New Flyer D40LF #1000 series (2006- 2009):
#1041 - #1064, #1073, #1329 - #1331, #1430 - #1467, #1469 - #1471, #1855, #1860 - #1898 (even numbers) #1904 - #1924 (even numbers), #1926, #1927, #1974, #1982 - #2029 (157 total)

Nova LFS #6400 series (2000 - 2002):

#6448, #6449, #6451- #6467, #6490 - #6497, #6521, #6523 - #6530, #6532 - #6567, #6569 - #6573, #6594 - #6596 (81 total)

New Flyer DE60LFR #4300 series (2012-13):
#4377-99 (23)

New Flyer D60LF #4000 series (2008 - 2009):
#4075 - #4079, #4098, #4106 - #4116 (17)

Kedzie (284 total)

New Flyer D60LF #4000 series (2008 - 2009):
#4000 - #4042, #4074 (44 total)

New Flyer DE60LFR #4300 series (2012-13):
#4321, #4322, #4324 - #4340 (19 total)

New Flyer DE40LF (2006, 2007):
#800 - #809 (10 total)

New Flyer DE40LF (2006, 2007):
#900, #903, #904, #905, #907, #909 (6 total)

New Flyer D40LF (2006 - 2009):
#1162 - #1188, #1200, #1201, #1204, #1206, #1208, #1210 - #1213,#1216, #1217, #1223, #1225, #1277 - #1282, #1332 - #1334, #1348 - #1374,#1590 - #1596, #1601, #1603, #1606 - #1614 (even numbers), #1615 - #1723 (205 total)

74th (258 total)

New Flyer D40LF (2006 - 2009):
#1113 - #1151, #1545 - #1589, #1724 - #1760 (121 total)

Nova LFS #6400 series (2000 - 2002):
#6400(slated to become a training bus for Olive-Harvey College, still in service), #6401, #6403, #6405 - #6419, #6421-27, #6479 - #6488, #6597 - #6609, #6611 - #6691, #6876 -#6883 (137 total)

77th (259 total)

New Flyer D40LF #1000 series (2006 - 2009):
#1065 - #1072, #1074 - #1112, #1152 - #1161, #1189 - #1199, #1202, #1203, #1205, #1207, #1209, #1214, #1215, #1218 - #1222, #1224, #1226 - #1247, #1258- #1265, #1273 - #1276, #1283 - #1300, #1335 - #1347, #1928 - #1973, #1975- #1981 (200 total)

Nova LFS #6400 series (2000 - 2002):
#6428 - #6447, #6468 - #6470 (23 total)

New Flyer DE60LFR #4300 series (2012-13):
#4341 - #4376 (36 total)

103rd (239 total)

New Flyer DE60LFR #4300 series (2012):
#4300 - #4320 (21 total)

New Flyer DE60LF #4000 series (2008, 2009):
#4080 - #4097, #4099 - #4105 (25 total)

New Flyer D40LF #1000 series (2006 - 2009):
#1000 - #1040, #1248 - #1257, #1271, #1272, #1472 - #1481, #1483 - #1544, #1597 - #1600, #1602, #1604, #1605 - #1613 (odd numbers), #1798 - #1854 (193 total)

Buses Out Of Service

Nova LFS #6400 Series: (2000 - 2002):

#6420,

#6450,

#6522,

#6531,

#6568,

#6610,

#6726,

#6738,

#6832



2 Novas slated to become training buses for Olive-Harvey college: #6400 (still in service), 2nd bus: ??

2 Novas have become work buses:

#6402 - Wb-1

#6404 - Wb-2


New Flyer D40LF #1000 Series (2006 - 2009):
#1305, #1468, #1482

New Flyer DE40LF (2006, 2007)
#901, #902, #908 (currently at South Shops, this might be an early retirement)
#906 (the 2/1/14 roster says this is retired)

New Flyer D60LF #4000 series (2008 - 2009):

#4071

New Flyer DE60LFR #4300 Series (2012):
#4323

Picture credits go to garmon757 and Mel Bernaro for the #6404 WB picture

[ChicagoNova]

This is what I have as far as the current CTA bus roster: (starting from north to south, descending from newest to oldest) (last updated 3/15/14)

Forest Glen (234 total)

Nova LFS #6400 series (2000 - 2002):

#6472 - #6478, #6489, #6490, #6498 - #6520, #6574 - #6593, #6692 - #6725, #6727 - #6737, #6739 - #6831, #6833 - #6875 (234 total)

<snip>

74th (252 total)

New Flyer D40LF (2006 - 2009):

#1113 - #1151, #1545 - #1589, #1724 - #1760 (119 total)

Nova LFS #6400 series (2000 - 2002):

#6400(slated to become a training bus for Olive-Harvey College, still in service), #6401, #6403, #6405 - #6419, #6421-27, #6479 - #6488, #6597 - #6609, #6611 - #6691, #6876 -#6883 (133 total)

<snip>

Forest Glen actually has 233 buses, not 234. 74th actually has 121 NF buses, not 119, and has 137 Novas, not 133.

[BusHunter]

#6468 and #6469 are still at 77th. With no sightings as of yet of #6470 or #6471, which was on the #8A last week I'm assuming those are still south as well until other evidence convinces me otherwise.

[jajuan]

And this may be a bit nitpicky, but Kedzie's 4300s are a small mix of 12 DE60LFRs and 7 D60LFRs for a total of 19 4300s or as a few like to look at it 12 4300s and 7 4333s. Similar thing for Chicago and 77th since those newer artics are clean diesels and not hybrids, 23 D60LFRs not DE60LFRs at Chicago and 36 D60LFRs at 77th.

[BusHunter]

Another artic was on diversey this morning, #4107. I caught it on the tracker just as it was scheduled to pull in mid route at Pulaski. I'll have to see if that's a regular thing. There were also 2 artics on the #74 and one on the #72.