Guest ctafan630 Posted November 20, 2012 Report Share Posted November 20, 2012 They said track and substation renewal. However, not said whether or why not it was done as part of the Brown Line project. I was hoping they would have re-instated the 2 outer tracks and implemented more of an express service on the brown line. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Busjack Posted November 20, 2012 Author Report Share Posted November 20, 2012 I was hoping they would have re-instated the 2 outer tracks and implemented more of an express service on the brown line. If nothing else, that would mean that they would have to redo the Sedgwick station, again, which is about all your proposal would bypass. The 4 track petered out before Chicago. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jajuan Posted November 21, 2012 Report Share Posted November 21, 2012 The CTA/PACE 7-day pass will go to $33. Here's an idea actually make a move toward fare cooperation again and just eliminate the CTA-only 7-pass while keeping that CTA/Pace 7-day at $28. If they're going to ask for that extra 5 bucks from everybody for 7 day long pass that person should be able to actual be able to get on Pace in return. A fair compromise might even be $30 if they insist on an increase in price but if you're going to market this as being at the benefit of the passenger on the operation side of things having the two different 7-day passes doesn't make much sense to continue to do. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Busjack Posted November 21, 2012 Author Report Share Posted November 21, 2012 Here's an idea actually make a move toward fare cooperation again and just eliminate the CTA-only 7-pass while keeping that CTA/Pace 7-day at $28. If they're going to ask for that extra 5 bucks from everybody for 7 day long pass that person should be able to actual be able to get on Pace in return. A fair compromise might even be $30 if they insist on an increase in price but if you're going to market this as being at the benefit of the passenger on the operation side of things having the two different 7-day passes doesn't make much sense to continue to do. This goes back to CTA and the RTA not reimbursing Pace for the pass, so Pace wouldn't honor it, so CTA and Pace agreed to charge $5 more, out of which Pace says it gets about $3.50. One could argue that this is an argument for fare integration, but with the RTA Act saying each service board sets its own fares, and the RTA being impotent, that's what you get. Maybe more curious is that both CTA and Metra get to raise the price on the Link-Up pass. Metra raised the price last year, but didn't get the revenue, according to the Tribune; page 34 of the budget says that CTA is raising it another $10. Pace apparently gets a cut either way, although Pace was saying that for Pace only, buy the BusPlus sticker for $30. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jajuan Posted November 21, 2012 Report Share Posted November 21, 2012 This goes back to CTA and the RTA not reimbursing Pace for the pass, so Pace wouldn't honor it, so CTA and Pace agreed to charge $5 more, out of which Pace says it gets about $3.50. One could argue that this is an argument for fare integration, but with the RTA Act saying each service board sets its own fares, and the RTA being impotent, that's what you get. Maybe more curious is that both CTA and Metra get to raise the price on the Link-Up pass. Metra raised the price last year, but didn't get the revenue, according to the Tribune; page 34 of the budget says that CTA is raising it another $10. Pace apparently gets a cut either way, although Pace was saying that for Pace only, buy the BusPlus sticker for $30. Basically more of what we all agree upon to some degree, which is watching transit in the region as a whole not be what it could potentially be for a city this size with accompanying suburban areas because the political hacks refused to do something about providing a more efficient, integrated system when they probably mostly likely had a chance and allowed doing so become something that's politically improbable, maybe even impossible, to do with the current political status quo of regional and state politicians using the boards for political bastions. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trainman8119 Posted November 21, 2012 Report Share Posted November 21, 2012 So, once again we get lies from the leadership. The said if they got concessions, no fare hike. They got concessions, and riders get a fare hike. Really shows just how much they REALLY needed the concessions. Not saying they are not fair or necessary, just trying to hold the brass to their word. $5 from O'Hare....really?? Then Rham and the council wonders why people don't want to come to Chicago for trade shows. More nickle and dime. Finally. I like how the boards, first at Metra now CTA, try to pass this off as "not a fare hike", but a "change in policy" or "reduction in discount". Say what it is...its a damn fare hike !!! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Busjack Posted November 21, 2012 Author Report Share Posted November 21, 2012 Finally. I like how the boards, first at Metra now CTA, try to pass this off as "not a fare hike", but a "change in policy" or "reduction in discount". Say what it is...its a damn fare hike !!! Apparently not if you put $2.25 cash in the fare box. But, as you recognize, Metra said the same thing with regard to 10 ride tickets. I sort of doubt that the trade show crowd is taking the L (and presumably transferring to the 3 bus) to get to McCormick Place, though. They are on expense accounts. There is a good debate on the CTA Tattler on whether 30 day passes would be worth it under the proposed schedule. Maybe the following are inconsequential, but they also show the b.s. in the document: Claypool inventing a schedule for approval of the budget. Maybe he has a side deal with the RTA to approve it on one day's notice, despite the law, but maybe the suburban directors will give him a surprise.Saying on page 49 that funds are included in the 5 year plan "dedicated to the next (future) railcar order," but then that 100 of the 2600s will get a C (3/4 life) overhaul (page 56). I guess we can all speculate about what the two mean. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MRCTA Posted November 21, 2012 Report Share Posted November 21, 2012 They'll find a way to balance the budget Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Busjack Posted November 21, 2012 Author Report Share Posted November 21, 2012 They'll find a way to balance the budget They claim they have. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BUSANGEL#1 Posted November 21, 2012 Report Share Posted November 21, 2012 Anyone know what work the CTA plans on doing on the Brown Line between Fullerton and the Merchandise Mart? Basically complete replacement of the track and elevated structure which is in the press release. There are rumors that the North Avenue curve will be straightened which I doubt. However it would cut off running time because it takes forever with all those curves. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jajuan Posted November 21, 2012 Report Share Posted November 21, 2012 So, once again we get lies from the leadership. The said if they got concessions, no fare hike. They got concessions, and riders get a fare hike. Really shows just how much they REALLY needed the concessions. Not saying they are not fair or necessary, just trying to hold the brass to their word. $5 from O'Hare....really?? Then Rham and the council wonders why people don't want to come to Chicago for trade shows. More nickle and dime. Finally. I like how the boards, first at Metra now CTA, try to pass this off as "not a fare hike", but a "change in policy" or "reduction in discount". Say what it is...its a damn fare hike !!! I agree as far as the fares go. They should have probably said if you pay cash fares your fare wouldn't go up. Either way they know full well that there aren't as many people paying a cash fare because they eliminated cash transfers a few years ago. About the only people I see paying cash are those who don't ride the bus that often and probably using the system for a one way ride the particular day they do, or folks from out of town who don't know the system well enough to know that they are probably better served purchasing transit cards from a location that sells fare media so that they could save the money they would have used on multiple buses from not knowing transfers are issued with cash. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
busfan2847 Posted November 21, 2012 Report Share Posted November 21, 2012 Maybe more curious is that both CTA and Metra get to raise the price on the Link-Up pass. Metra raised the price last year, but didn't get the revenue, according to the Tribune; page 34 of the budget says that CTA is raising it another $10. Pace apparently gets a cut either way, although Pace was saying that for Pace only, buy the BusPlus sticker for $30. Last year, when Metra raised it, they said that they were removing the subsidy that Metra had been paying cta for each pass. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Busjack Posted November 21, 2012 Author Report Share Posted November 21, 2012 I agree as far as the fares go. They should have probably said if you pay cash fares your fare wouldn't go up. Either way they know full well that there aren't as many people paying a cash fare because they eliminated cash transfers a few years ago. ... As I noted elsewhere, there are three means of payment: Cash fare on the bus.Stored value on mag strip cards and Chicago Card and Chicago Card Plus.Passes, again including different mag strip cards and Chicago Card Plus. While cash fares themselves supposedly account for 6% of bus fares and no rapid transit fares, the stored value method is not affected, except at O'Hare. Thus the only thing raising an issue is the passes. I'll bet that the vast majority consists of users of stored value cards, and hence are not affected, while those using passes seem to lose much of the advantage. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MRCTA Posted November 21, 2012 Report Share Posted November 21, 2012 How can CTA's Fare Hikes Affect You? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
busfan2847 Posted November 21, 2012 Report Share Posted November 21, 2012 $5 from O'Hare....really?? Then Rham and the council wonders why people don't want to come to Chicago for trade shows. More nickle and dime. Finally. I like how the boards, first at Metra now CTA, try to pass this off as "not a fare hike", but a "change in policy" or "reduction in discount". Say what it is...its a damn fare hike !!! Most cities across the world that have rapid transit/ trains going to the airports do charge a higher rate to and from the airport. At least this is only in one direction! For those of us that do use discount passes we will be paying more, however as the base fares have not changed it is not a fare hike. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jajuan Posted November 21, 2012 Report Share Posted November 21, 2012 Most cities across the world that have rapid transit/ trains going to the airports do charge a higher rate to and from the airport. At least this is only in one direction! For those of us that do use discount passes we will be paying more, however as the base fares have not changed it is not a fare hike. And again in response here and to Busjack's breakdown above that only works if you fall for the semantics game that CTA is trying to play. Almost no one pays a cash fare and plenty more riders use the passes or Chicago card set as a monthly pass vs stored value cards than probably realized. At least the Tribune calls it as is, A FARE HIKE. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
artthouwill Posted November 21, 2012 Report Share Posted November 21, 2012 Something tells me that CTA will try to gloss over this soon with a heavy promo for early registration for the new Ventra card. I wouldn't be surprised if they offered some sort of incentive (or some relief from these hikes) by registering and using the Ventra. Remember when ChicagoCard was introduced you got bonus value for every X amount of money you put on the card, even when the bonuses were taken from the transit cards, at least for a while longer. I think the $5 fare from O'Hare sucks. First, most of the people who use the station are people who work at the airport or work for an airline. Now that Pace no longer goes into the airport proper (only to the Kiss N Fly), CTA is the only direct public transportation into the airport. While people will still be able to get to the airport okay, they are basically being hijacked to get home. When I was in the Twin Cities, I never had to pay a premium fare to ride the bus from the airport, and if I remember correctly, there is no premium fare on the Hiawatha line either, except free rides between the Lindbergh and Humphrey Terminals only. I guess they couldn't do the same for Midway considering that there are other ways to get to Pulaski and avoid the fare at that airport, which tells you that CTA knows they were going after the workers under the guise of getting the tourists/visitors. I guess CTA looked at what Metra was doing with their 10 ride and monthly passes and copied their idea. Metra riders aren't too happy either. I would probably guess that this was also part of the reason for the delayed budget hidden behind the concessions CTA was trying to wrangle from the unions. I wonder if I could sue the agencies for misleading the public. It is a fare hike, period. Not an across the board fare hike, but a fare hike nonetheless. When the majority of your riders are pass users and the passes are getting increased, that leads to most people paying more, which means the majority of riders are experiencing a fare hike. We will see how the public responds in terms of pass purchases and especially with Ventra. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BusHunter Posted November 22, 2012 Report Share Posted November 22, 2012 So, once again we get lies from the leadership. The said if they got concessions, no fare hike. They got concessions, and riders get a fare hike. Really shows just how much they REALLY needed the concessions. Not saying they are not fair or necessary, just trying to hold the brass to their word. $5 from O'Hare....really?? Then Rham and the council wonders why people don't want to come to Chicago for trade shows. More nickle and dime. Finally. I like how the boards, first at Metra now CTA, try to pass this off as "not a fare hike", but a "change in policy" or "reduction in discount". Say what it is...its a damn fare hike !!! Yes, lies seem to be the recent trend. First they say no cuts in service and come out with a decrowding plan (otherwise known as a service cut) and now this. The best part of it is they ask for a premium fare at O'Hare to ride the oldest equipment with often smelly seats. The bus service is poor, (i've had to wait 45 minutes today for a bus and 35 minutes yesterday) and yet they raise the fare, like this is the greatest ride in town. Buses are way overcrowded. They said they wouldn't do a service cut next year. Now can we trust someone who has lied to us twice? I notice this month's ridership has fallen by about 800,000 if you compare it with the ridership last year (same month) I can imagine this will continue to be the trend, there's only so much you can expect from the riding public before they seek alternate transportation. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Busjack Posted November 22, 2012 Author Report Share Posted November 22, 2012 As far as the new lie, does anyone believe Terry Peterson saying no more fare hikes for 3 years? That is where the sales job begins, according to the Tribune. However, on the "workers from O'Hare" point, there is the question whether it is worth it to them to buy a 7 day pass and avoid the surcharge.* __________ *Yes, I said that elsewhere. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MetroShadow Posted November 22, 2012 Report Share Posted November 22, 2012 I think the $5 fare from O'Hare sucks. First, most of the people who use the station are people who work at the airport or work for an airline. Now that Pace no longer goes into the airport proper (only to the Kiss N Fly), CTA is the only direct public transportation into the airport. While people will still be able to get to the airport okay, they are basically being hijacked to get home. When I was in the Twin Cities, I never had to pay a premium fare to ride the bus from the airport, and if I remember correctly, there is no premium fare on the Hiawatha line either, except free rides between the Lindbergh and Humphrey Terminals only. I guess they couldn't do the same for Midway considering that there are other ways to get to Pulaski and avoid the fare at that airport, which tells you that CTA knows they were going after the workers under the guise of getting the tourists/visitors. The only justification (and I use that term loosely) is that systems such as MTA, NJ Transit, WMATA and BART already has a surcharge for passengers going to/from the airport (it's about on average $5-$5.50 tacked onto the fare). This doesn't condone it, however, but I guess an attempt to copy what's already been done elsewhere. /and I understand that BART and NJ Transit are distance based fares; and WMATA has the B30 and 5A surcharges from their respective airports. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pace2322 Posted November 22, 2012 Report Share Posted November 22, 2012 If you guys dont like it buy a car and drive it, see how much you spend on that in a week! I should b***h at bp that i have to spend $80.00 a week in fuel just to drive to work! 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jajuan Posted November 22, 2012 Report Share Posted November 22, 2012 If you guys dont like it buy a car and drive it, see how much you spend on that in a week! I should b***h at bp that i have to spend $80.00 a week in fuel just to drive to work! It's not the hike in pass prices in themselves that has anyone the most upset. It's the fact that they lied about what they were going to do if they got concessions from the ATU local workers and then try to hide behind the semantics that they're making decreases in discounts. Had they said from the beginning hey we still will likely need to raise the pass prices and actually showed the balls not to hide behind thinly veiled euphemisms that insult the intelligence after they did what they claim only now was needed you probably wouldn't see folks griping as hard. If for once they stop acting like chickens***s and stopped using terms like 'service change' for service cut or in this latest move 'reduction in discounts' for unlimited pass fare hike they'd probably have more folks in their corner for things in recent times. And a friendly piece of advice is with CTA pass customers accounting for about half of the rides or 43% of the operating revenue based on the pie chart in Claypool's budget report showing 86% of CTA's 2012 operating revenue coming from the farebox, I'd go easy on lashing out and admonishing any of them to leave the system when their frustration is with the top execs and not the bus or rail operators from the two hits of thumbing their noses at the customer base in the coming two months. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jajuan Posted November 22, 2012 Report Share Posted November 22, 2012 As far as the new lie, does anyone believe Terry Peterson saying no more fare hikes for 3 years? That is where the sales job begins, according to the Tribune. However, on the "workers from O'Hare" point, there is the question whether it is worth it to them to buy a 7 day pass and avoid the surcharge.* __________ *Yes, I said that elsewhere. To answer your and Bushunter's questions, no on both counts. I don't believe they won't try to stiff riders with another hike and no I don't trust the CTA board at this point. And Bushunter reminded me of the other veiled euphemism they used recently for service cut, "decrowding plan" or "decrowding initiatiave" depending on the source reporting on that ridiculous plan. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Busjack Posted November 23, 2012 Author Report Share Posted November 23, 2012 To answer your and Bushunter's questions, no on both counts. I don't believe they won't try to stiff riders with another hike and no I don't trust the CTA board at this point. And Bushunter reminded me of the other veiled euphemism they used recently for service cut, "decrowding plan" or "decrowding initiatiave" depending on the source reporting on that ridiculous plan. Since you brought up the decrowding plan, but really in answer to the prior posts... ...I don't know how iron clad any representations made to the riders are, but Peterson proved on September 12 that he is a liar, so that is nothing new. The expressed intent in the one-month late budget that is is going to be rammed through, through a schedule that does not conform to the law, indicates that public input means nothing to the CTA Board as it didn't on September 12. However, the only contractual agreement that the riders have with the CTA is of the magnitude of "a 30 day pass will be good for the next 30 days." If the representations of lying politicians had any meaning, the tollways would be free today, as was represented in the late 1960s or early 1960s as "they will be free once the bonds are paid." They were in Kentucky, but definitely not in Illinois. Nobody believed George Ryan when he said he had a plan to make them free by 2020, but, by that time, everyone knew that Ryan was a liar about most anything. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mkohut Posted November 23, 2012 Report Share Posted November 23, 2012 Since you brought up the decrowding plan, but really in answer to the prior posts... ...I don't know how iron clad any representations made to the riders are, but Peterson proved on September 12 that he is a liar, so that is nothing new. The expressed intent in the one-month late budget that is is going to be rammed through, through a schedule that does not conform to the law, indicates that public input means nothing to the CTA Board as it didn't on September 12. However, the only contractual agreement that the riders have with the CTA is of the magnitude of "a 30 day pass will be good for the next 30 days." If the representations of lying politicians had any meaning, the tollways would be free today, as was represented in the late 1960s or early 1960s as "they will be free once the bonds are paid." They were in Kentucky, but definitely not in Illinois. Nobody believed George Ryan when he said he had a plan to make them free by 2020, but, by that time, everyone knew that Ryan was a liar about most anything. The sad part is rather its RTA,CTA,or any other Board .Its the politicians who hand out all these jobs.Plus,themselves. That left everything in a financial mess. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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