No Purple Express During Brown Line Bridge Reroute

[Busjack]

One thing that is going to be confusing about the Brown line through the subway is when they use a roosevelt red line roll sign how will the riders at Belmont/Red know if the train is running to Fullerton/Red or to Wellington/Brown. I suppose they could run Brown line signs to Southport and flip those to Roosevelt/Red, but then how would those who have already boarded know what train there riding? (unless they use a belmont sign) Some custom led signs (like on the #5000's) would be nice right now!! Regardless Monday"s commute is going to be very confusing.

Like sw said.

Either it is on the outer track and switches south of Fullerton, or is on the inner track.

Remember, Frank was crowing about all the extra crossovers put into that stretch in anticipation of Three Track.

[BusHunter]

Like sw said.

Either it is on the outer track and switches south of Fullerton, or is on the inner track.

Remember, Frank was crowing about all the extra crossovers put into that stretch in anticipation of Three Track.

Your right but Brown line riders will still be confused at say Addison/Brown when a red line train shows up displaying Roosevelt. For that matter if ones sees a Red line train at Belmont regardless of what track it's on if there unfamilier with the line or not paying attention they'll let it pass. Operators are constantly going to have to remind riders this train stops at wellington and diversey, but there probably will be CTA reps in abundance the first few days.

[sw4400]

The only head scratcher on this addition to the Brown Line of 3269-3294 is why move these cars over? The only guess I have is the mylar curtains...

I'm not sure how many different destination curtains are on each railcar, but maybe only the Orange Line equipment (3269-3294), with the exception of Red Line equipment or 5000's, which universally can be programmed to have a destination of "Your House" on a black and white polka dot background, have the "Roosevelt" destination curtains on the red background for the Subway service. I guess we'll know starting Monday if only 3269-3294 are seen in the Subway.

[Busjack]

Your right but Brown line riders will still be confused at say Addison/Brown when a red line train shows up displaying Roosevelt. For that matter if ones sees a Red line train at Belmont regardless of what track it's on if there unfamilier with the line or not paying attention they'll let it pass. Operators are constantly going to have to remind riders this train stops at wellington and diversey, but there probably will be CTA reps in abundance the first few days.

Also, supposedly the real Red Line trains will say 95th.

The only confusion on the Ravenswood north of Clark Jct. is whether the train is going to Roosevelt or Merchandise Mart (or maybe even Chicago). The only real question is what sign will be for the latter, but you can go out there right now to find out..

The only head scratcher on this addition to the Brown Line of 3269-3294 is why move these cars over? The only guess I have is the mylar curtains...

I'm not sure how many different destination curtains are on each railcar, but maybe only the Orange Line equipment (3269-3294), with the exception of Red Line equipment or 5000's, which universally can be programmed to have a destination of "Your House" on a black and white polka dot background, have the "Roosevelt" destination curtains on the red background for the Subway service. I guess we'll know starting Monday if only 3269-3294 are seen in the Subway.

15 on each.

Someone said they were swapping the mylar curtains to indicate a Red Ashland 63, so I can't be sure at the moment, but at least the Red and Brown were all on the same roll (including Red Roosevelt), while Red Howard and 95th were on all rolls the last someone posted the chart here.

[BusHunter]

The only head scratcher on this addition to the Brown Line of 3269-3294 is why move these cars over? The only guess I have is the mylar curtains...

I'm not sure how many different destination curtains are on each railcar, but maybe only the Orange Line equipment (3269-3294), with the exception of Red Line equipment or 5000's, which universally can be programmed to have a destination of "Your House" on a black and white polka dot background, have the "Roosevelt" destination curtains on the red background for the Subway service. I guess we'll know starting Monday if only 3269-3294 are seen in the Subway.

Probably not, if you figure every 3rd brown line is running in the subway you would need way more than 26 cars to do that. You can figure roughly a third of the total Brown line fleet is going to need this, which is over 50 cars. My guess is it has something to do with the onboard cameras. BTW, not only is the Brown line having a loop closure this weekend so is all the other elevated lines. Link: http://www.transitchicago.com/travel_information/alert_detail.aspx?AlertId=17525

[BusHunter]

Also, supposedly the real Red Line trains will say 95th.

The only confusion on the Ravenswood north of Clark Jct. is whether the train is going to Roosevelt or Merchandise Mart (or maybe even Chicago). The only real question is what sign will be for the latter, but you can go out there right now to find out..

Their just using the loop signs. Should be interesting on the weekdays, trains run on the Brown line as close as 3 minutes apart. I wonder how they plan to turn trains this fast, (3 trains every 12 minutes) especially at the mart. The closest crossover I believe is at hubbard so they would have to cross over pull in board/exit passengers, change ends and get back going in under 8 minutes figuring they would use both sides of the mart station. There's probably going to be delays there and at the crossover south of Fullerton. From what i saw today, ridership seemed kind of weak on the Brown line. I think what's going to happen is everyone's going to ride the service traveling down the subway and the cutoff elevated service ridership is going to be weaker.

[Busjack]

....Should be interesting on the weekdays, trains run on the Brown line as close as 3 minutes apart....

As I mentioned earlier, the notice said that frequency was going to be substantially reduced.

[sw4400]

Their just using the loop signs. Should be interesting on the weekdays, trains run on the Brown line as close as 3 minutes apart

Brown Line trains will run 10-12 minutes apart, not 3 minutes. Two of the three AM and PM rush trains will be going Downtown via the State St. Subway with the third going to Merchandise Mart. Should be something like this...

Roosevelt Roosevelt Loop

Roosevelt Loop Roosevelt

One of these should be the order of Brown Line operation during rush periods.

[sw4400]

Someone said they were swapping the mylar curtains to indicate a Red Ashland 63, so I can't be sure at the moment, but at least the Red and Brown were all on the same roll (including Red Roosevelt), while Red Howard and 95th were on all rolls the last someone posted the chart here.

On the subject of Mylar Curtains for the Red Line rehab, why not just have them use the Red "Roosevelt" signs through the Subway, then switch over to Green "Ashland/63rd" curtains. They are making all Green Line stops anyways. Coming back, they just use the Red "Howard" signs.

[artthouwill]

This weekend saw some different signs for Green Line service to Clinton. One 2400.series train had the front two cars with the black Downtown destination signs while the rear two cars had Pink Loop destination signs. Some 5000s had Cottage Grove signs, others have Express signs. I would think they would have a generic Downtown or Loop sign on the 5000s along with signs for MDSE Mart, Clinton, Roosevelt. Since it is electronic, shouldn't be much of a problem to.add.

[chicagopcclcar]

Short, shorts.....Two training trains are running this Sunday. Additionally there is a 2200 series charter on the rails too. The training train and the charter have to use the State Street subway.

DH

[See Tea Eh]

Off topic, but who's chartering the 2200s this week?

It might be easier to list the weeks when there isn't a 2200-series charter.

[chicagopcclcar]

Off topic, but who's chartering the 2200s this week?

It might be easier to list the weeks when there isn't a 2200-series charter.

It was a private charter evidently, no public ticket sales. I caught up with them on east 63rd St. They also went into the lower yard at 313 east 63rd St. 2200s, four cars. They then headed back north.

DH

[jajuan]

This weekend saw some different signs for Green Line service to Clinton. One 2400.series train had the front two cars with the black Downtown destination signs while the rear two cars had Pink Loop destination signs. Some 5000s had Cottage Grove signs, others have Express signs. I would think they would have a generic Downtown or Loop sign on the 5000s along with signs for MDSE Mart, Clinton, Roosevelt. Since it is electronic, shouldn't be much of a problem to.add.

But as I noted those signs on the 5000s are based on the old mylar signs for which none of what you're suggesting exists.

[Busjack]

But the Tribune reports that most Brown Line trains were mislabeled, giving rise to a variant of the problem BusHunter indicated, although not that problem.

[joechicago]

I rode a "normal" Brown line from Diversey to the Merchandise Mart today, I was on the train at 7am, so it really wasn't too bad, got a seat and everything.

I did notice that the Hubbard Curve track work is still on going, and they are only using the Southbound track to go from Chicago to the Mart, so we had to wait at Chicago for a bit while the train came back from the Mart. They had a bunch of track equipment parked on the north bound tracks at the Mart & had built a barricade to block anyone from going up the cross over stairs.

[Busjack]

I rode a "normal" Brown line from Diversey to the Merchandise Mart today, I was on the train at 7am, so it really wasn't too bad, got a seat and everything.

I did notice that the Hubbard Curve track work is still on going, and they are only using the Southbound track to go from Chicago to the Mart, so we had to wait at Chicago for a bit while the train came back from the Mart. They had a bunch of track equipment parked on the north bound tracks at the Mart & had built a barricade to block anyone from going up the cross over stairs.

Again sort of answers BusHunter's question on how they were going to turn ends at Mdse. Mart.

[artthouwill]

But as I noted those signs on the 5000s are based on the old mylar signs for which none of what you're suggesting exists.

I know the signs are based on the old mylar signs, but that doesn't mean they are LIMITED to just those signs. There should be sufficient memory to program and store any destination, color coded or not. Certainly they could program a black Downtown sign (which is on the old mylar, but apparently not on the electronic version), Clinton, Roosevelt. They are going to have to program a Red Ashland/63 sign soon, as they are already adding them on the mylar curtains now.

[BusHunter]

But the Tribune reports that most Brown Line trains were mislabeled, giving rise to a variant of the problem BusHunter indicated, although not that problem.

I don't understand why operators didn't just announce where they were headed right away. Probably alot of that is the first day glitches that would happen with any new routing. Hopefully it will be smoother tomorrow or we may see flocks of riders heading to the Red or Blue lines.

[chicagopcclcar]

I rode a "normal" Brown line from Diversey to the Merchandise Mart today, I was on the train at 7am, so it really wasn't too bad, got a seat and everything.

I did notice that the Hubbard Curve track work is still on going, and they are only using the Southbound track to go from Chicago to the Mart, so we had to wait at Chicago for a bit while the train came back from the Mart. They had a bunch of track equipment parked on the north bound tracks at the Mart & had built a barricade to block anyone from going up the cross over stairs.

Short-shorts....In the field Monday am rush. Brown Line from Illinois Interlocking into Merchandise Mart is operated as a single track, using the south bound track. So only one Brown line train can berth at the Mart. In single track operation, a switchman called the pilot carries the "authority" to be in the single track zone. Since the operation is so short and single ended, the pilot gives his authority in the form of a lamp to the first inbound train and receives it back when the train exits. Rail control meanwhile holds the next train at Chicago until the first train clears the territory. They could tighten the interval by holding the next entering train at Illinois, but should the train in the Mart become disabled, the waiting train would have no where to go. So its best to let the next inbound train wait at Chicago, in the platform. So you see, the CTA Rail Control does use good judgement.

The first northbound Brown through the subway actually was a putout from Midway. By the end of the rush hour, if you were at Roosevelt and wanted to go to 35th/ Bronzeville, no problem. They're still running training trains on Monday, LOL.

The roll signs were amazing....trains were going everywhere according to the signs. Reminded one of the "City of Everywhere", the Union Pacific streamliner in the final days. I laughed when the first four cars said "Roosevelt" and the last four said "O'Hare."

The operators have written scripts to read at important stations. But some operator's PA techniques need tuning. I easily witnessed the signals in the subway under close headways, Bah! There are no closing signals like in days of old.

DH

[jajuan]

I know the signs are based on the old mylar signs, but that doesn't mean they are LIMITED to just those signs. There should be sufficient memory to program and store any destination, color coded or not. Certainly they could program a black Downtown sign (which is on the old mylar, but apparently not on the electronic version), Clinton, Roosevelt. They are going to have to program a Red Ashland/63 sign soon, as they are already adding them on the mylar curtains now.

I'm not saying they have to be limited to those but my thinking is to go through that for so short a project, the current nine days and the nine days for late April into early May, seems a waste of time. Now the Red Line Ashland/63 situation is a much longer term rerouting so that makes more sense to do. You looking for Green Clinton or Roosevelt signs, Brown Chicago or Merchandise Mart signs, etc for two nine day reroutings spaced about a month and a half apart is just looking for programming electronic signs just for the sake of doing it and showing that you can do it. They don't do it on the buses in the case of short term reroutes that steer a bus from it's normal terminus so it's a bit offbase to look for it on the rail side.

[chicagopcclcar]

I don't understand why operators didn't just announce where they were headed right away. Probably alot of that is the first day glitches that would happen with any new routing. Hopefully it will be smoother tomorrow or we may see flocks of riders heading to the Red or Blue lines.

You'll be pleased to know that more attention on this matter is occurring this afternoon. Kimball is explictly checking trains to see if the "Roosevelt" is in the proper sign location. If an alternate train is in the other terminal track, the crew swaps trains. So it took more signs then they thought. I bet the "O'Hare" is in the "Roosevelt" sign position. Crews are instructed to make announcements if their train is unable to display proper signage. Of course it's more important for tomorrow's southbound am rush. Some might ask, "why not group the 'Roosevelt' signed cars together"? The problem is when a crew returns to the terminal, the crew and its schedule "falls back." Thus a different crew with perhaps a different destination might take the train back out. Only four more days.

DH

[Amtrak41]

Why couldn't they put the same standard mylar sign with all destinations on all the cars ? The 21 limit ? Some of the 2600's can't even display a Purple Loop.

[chicagopcclcar]

Here are the rollsign positions for a Blue Line 2600 used on a charter.

DH

[artthouwill]

I'm not saying they have to be limited to those but my thinking is to go through that for so short a project, the current nine days and the nine days for late April into early May, seems a waste of time. Now the Red Line Ashland/63 situation is a much longer term rerouting so that makes more sense to do. You looking for Green Clinton or Roosevelt signs, Brown Chicago or Merchandise Mart signs, etc for two nine day reroutings spaced about a month and a half apart is just looking for programming electronic signs just for the sake of doing it and showing that you can do it. They don't do it on the buses in the case of short term reroutes that steer a bus from it's normal terminus so it's a bit offbase to look for it on the rail side.

I wasn't thinking about this in regards to this particular project, but just general signs "just in case". No different than the old CTA bus mylar signs with North Terminal, South Terminal, etc. The Roosevelt one I suggested works perfect as three lines (Red, Orange, Green) serve the station as well as a termination point for Pink Line trains when one side of the Loop is closed. We know that other things are bound to come up. As to your bus analogy, they haven't thought through some of the destination signs there either. Consider:

54 Cicero to 24th

35 31/35th to Cicero/24th PL

60 Blue Island/26th to Cicero.

Three different signage for the exact same destination. So there is proof that room exists for programming some signs. Now I am not suggesting that every station on every line has its own destination sign, but the ones I suggested are at critical points where service could be terminated or short turned.