Rear exit doors

[MRChiCity]

Good afternoon,

How do they rear exit doors on buses work? More specifically how do they close, dose the driver manually close them or do they close automatically? Thank you.

[sw4400]

Good afternoon,

How do they rear exit doors on buses work? More specifically how do they close, dose the driver manually close them or do they close automatically? Thank you.

Automatically and manually...

• Automatically when they are normally working
• Manually when they have an issue. In that case, the Operator will inform the passengers to use the front doors to exit the bus and the rear doors will be out of service.

To Open, you just push the push bars(Nova 6400's and earlier bus models) or put your hand where instructed on the door(New Flyers and newer bus models).

[MRChiCity]

I know you have to push them open but only when the "green light" is on, so in normal conditions would they be on a timer?

[See Tea Eh]

If working properly, they would be on a timer and close after a couple of seconds of nobody either pushing the bar/placing their hand in the sensor area. If the door motors aren't working properly on the 40-footers, then the doors can just fall shut immediately if someone isn't pushing the door open.

[jajuan]

Also if you've been on CTA buses, you might notice that there is a sensor that looks like a small black square near the rear doors. That sensor is linked to the timer that See Tea Eh was talking about. As long as it's working properly, if no one is standing in front of that sensor after passengers are done leaving the bus, the timer knows that no one else is leaving the bus and kicks in as described to tell the doors they can close. Nice to see our members help a relatively new member and not treat his question as a dumb question. Bravo guys.

[Busjack]

On the newer ones, you can read about the CLASS system. The detector system figures out when the door platform area is open and then closes the doors.

[MTRSP1900-CTA3200]

Like jajuan said, nice job answering the questions guys!

On a related note, I occasionally drive an amateur style bus simulator. When stopping, I operate the front doors manually with buttons, but the passengers automatically leave by opening the back doors. The doors then close automatically, similar to CTA buses, from what sw4400 described.

The interesting thing is that there's a push/pull toggle switch that activates both doors, as in allowing them to move. When I stop, I push the switch down, the passengers in the back leave, and I push the door buttons for the front doors. The bus also disables itself, so I can't drive off while operating the doors.

[joerailfan2015]

On the discussion of rear doors, I've noticed that on some New Flyer DE60LFR's and D60LFR's, when me and other people try to open the rear door, it does not open--even when the green light is on. I've seen people touch the door 5 to 10 times. The door finally opens on like the 10th time. Is it slow reaction time, or is it defective doors?

[MRChiCity]

On the newer ones, you can read about the CLASS system. The detector system figures out when the door platform area is open and then closes the doors.

Thank's for sharing that

[See Tea Eh]

On the discussion of rear doors, I've noticed that on some New Flyer DE60LFR's and D60LFR's, when me and other people try to open the rear door, it does not open--even when the green light is on. I've seen people touch the door 5 to 10 times. The door finally opens on like the 10th time. Is it slow reaction time, or is it defective doors?

Could be a problem with the CLASS (Contact-Less Acoustic Sensing System). When the first DE60LFs showed up, that system had a lot of problems. Many of those issues have been fixed, but individual buses may still have the occasional glitch.

[BusHunter]

On the discussion of rear doors, I've noticed that on some New Flyer DE60LFR's and D60LFR's, when me and other people try to open the rear door, it does not open--even when the green light is on. I've seen people touch the door 5 to 10 times. The door finally opens on like the 10th time. Is it slow reaction time, or is it defective doors?

Their probably not tripping the class door sensor. If someone stands too close to a door, like on a crowded bus it will keep opening because in that case they are repeatedly tripping the class door sensor. The NF 40 foot doors do have one hangup. If you open the doors right when the interlock is being taken off or on the doors will stick about 1/4 of a foot out. This requires the operator to hit the override switch over the front door. I always wondered why those switches weren't on the console. If you tug on the doors in an attempt to close it you can manually close it without an override. This can also happen on a windy day if the door is being pulled out by wind.

[See Tea Eh]

This requires the operator to hit the override switch over the front door. I always wondered why those switches weren't on the console.

My understanding is it's a safety issue. They don't want drivers hitting the door master switch and driving the bus with the doors in an override mode, so they put it out of reach so the driver has to get out of the seat to activate it.

[MetroShadow]

Remind me fellow bus nerds about what kind of doors were on the 7000's/7100's. I want to call them swing-out doors...

[jajuan]

My understanding is it's a safety issue. They don't want drivers hitting the door master switch and driving the bus with the doors in an override mode, so they put it out of reach so the driver has to get out of the seat to activate it.

Makes perfect sense under that explanation.

[Kevin]

Remind me fellow bus nerds about what kind of doors were on the 7000's/7100's. I want to call them swing-out doors...

Plug doors, I believe.

[BusHunter]

Remind me fellow bus nerds about what kind of doors were on the 7000's/7100's. I want to call them swing-out doors...

The #7000's swung in, would that still make them plug doors? Kind of interesting that those buses were built by AM General. The Wikipedia on AM General states only 400 AM general buses were ever made.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/AM_General (under the articulated bus section)

The shells came from Germany and the buses were assembled in Indiana. I wonder if the #7100 shells came from Germany?

[jajuan]

The #7000's swung in, would that still make them plug doors? Kind of interesting that those buses were built by AM General. The Wikipedia on AM General states only 400 AM general buses were ever made.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/AM_General (under the articulated bus section)

The shells came from Germany and the buses were assembled in Indiana. I wonder if the #7100 shells came from Germany?

Yeah it was under an agreement between AM General and MAN before MAN would go to build its own plant in the United States, it's plant that it used to have in North Carolina. AM General also had an agreement in place roughly the same time with Flyer Industries to build 40 foot electric trolley buses and traditional diesel buses, from what that article says. Interestingly though AM General designed the fronts on their own so that it wasn't simply an AM General bus built under license from Flyer. Flyer, the article says, went on to use that redesigned front on the E800 and D800 bus models. AM General only built buses between 1974 through 1979 so it's unlikely that the 7100s. which were from 1983, had AM General's hands in the finished products. If those body shells didn't come from Germany, then they would have been constructed in MAN's now defunct North Carolina plant.

[Busjack]

.... AM General only built buses between 1974 through 1979 so it's unlikely that the 7100s. which were from 1983, had AM General's hands in the finished products....

The 1979 buses had AM General insignia on the sides of the back unit of the bus. Those were not on the 7100s, which were assembled by MAN in NC.

[jajuan]

The 1979 buses had AM General insignia on the sides of the back unit of the bus. Those were not on the 7100s, which were assembled by MAN in NC.

I think that was my point sir. But thanks.

[andrethebusman]

The issue with the rear doors on the 4000/4300's seems to be that if the passenger is wearing gloves the sensor seems to have trouble sensing their hands. This does not happen with the 1000's. Also, the rear doors on the 1000's are completely sensor operated, with driver only able to lock or unlock them, while on the artics there is a switch that allows the rear doors to be fully controlled by the driver, opened, and held open even if nobody is near them, them closed when the door switch is returned to "close" position. Some drivers will use this feature on heavy routes to speed up door operation, but most do not. I believe 7000's and 7100's were also set up this way, with a "manual control" option. Not sure if 4300's were.

More rear door trivia: Until 1954, all CTA/CSL buses had fully driver operated rear doors. 5500's were first with push doors, and there was a project started to rebuild older buses with push doors. However, only a few series were actually done, namely Pullman and St Louis trolley buses and 83 of the 600's. What stopped it was the death of a woman passenger exiting a St Louis trolley bus on Montrose who was dragged to her death when her coat got caught in the closing door. Not having a right-side mirror, the driver had no way of telling what had happened, as the door closed and locked, and he pulled off, and the woman went under the rear wheels. There was a great political; outcry over this, and further conversions ended as "unsafe". However, new buses kept getting push doors, as they were considered to be better engineered that the CTA's homemade ones. And the existing conversions stayed that way, too. Go figure...

Anyway, until the 9000's, the doors were strictly push when unlocked. The 9000's were the first to have an "air assist" cylinder that pushed the doors open when the bars were touched. However, the cylinder only opened the door, it did not hold it open. When the bars were released, the door would start to close. Most 7400's (and some 1000's?) had this equipment retrofitted later.

[Busjack]

...

Anyway, until the 9000's, the doors were strictly push when unlocked. The 9000's were the first to have an "air assist" cylinder that pushed the doors open when the bars were touched. However, the cylinder only opened the door, it did not hold it open. When the bars were released, the door would start to close. Most 7400's (and some 1000's?) had this equipment retrofitted later.

The 1300s originally assigned to 149 had assist doors.