strictures Posted January 27, 2015 Report Share Posted January 27, 2015 I forgot that Enviros were double deckers until you mentioned it. For instance, with regard to going between North Park and routes on LSD, the buses have to get under the underpasses at Ravenswood (UPN) and Broadway (Red Line). Most of them are posted at about 11 feet. There is the always convenient viaduct clearances page.Only sufficient clearances at Ravenswood are at Foster (listed as 13'10") and Lawrence (14'4"). Alexander Dennis says that the Enviro 500 requires a clearance of 13.6' for the America model. Remember that the hybrid bus couldn't get under the underpass on Wilson and Ravenswood (listed at 10'6"), and most of the hybrids are 11'. Sheridan east of Broadway is listed as 12'3". There are pictures of CMC double deckers going under it, but it wasn't mentioned what the dimension was (other than they were shorter than comparable NYC buses). The CMC double deckers originally didn't have a roof. I know that, because when my uncle was a teen in the 1930s, he got knocked out when he stood up & hit a bridge! He lived until his mid 80s. The roofs were added later, but weren't full height. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NewFlyerMCI Posted January 27, 2015 Report Share Posted January 27, 2015 Umm you would have to get around the clearance issues with a lot of Chicago's underpasses. Why do you think double decker buses pretty much only operate downtown for the private tourist bus lines? Double decker buses are basically too tall for the road environment provided by Chicago. You have to do more than just say, 'Oh this city's TA has this type of bus so maybe CTA and/or Pace should have them too'. You also have to look at what other factors are in play in those other cities that Chicago's surface environment can't necessarily provide or accommodate. Case in point, the now nonexistent 145 and the 148, in that same period that it operated on Wilson, both had to be rerouted from it's loop via Wilson, Damen, Lawrence, Ravenswood West, Leland and Ravenswood East to a counterclockwise one via Ashland and Lawrence over to Ravenswood because the battery pods on top of the 4000s made them unable to fit under the UP-N underpass like the 7500s were capable of doing when CTA used them on those routes. My bad, I tried to accomodate for what I could remember. I don't know the location of each and every underpass and tried to go for ones that had a sizable passenger base already established, that seemed as though it could use more For instance, by bringing this up, i do realize that, because of the loop, some routings might have to change (6, J14, 146, etc) if they can't fit, but I don't know how tall the Loop is from ground level. Some rerouting wouldn't be hugely affected from a managerial standpoint, but I would be somewhat upset if I had to walk from, say Finacial to Michigan instead of State to catch my 6 (but no left turn, so point is mute). It was a way to have more seated passengers than standing on high capacity routes, especially with how CTA loves to do its aisle-facing seating now. I think we can all agree, no one likes that. Edit: This was typed after Jajuan's post, thank you Busjack for the clearance list Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Busjack Posted January 27, 2015 Report Share Posted January 27, 2015 The CMC double deckers originally didn't have a roof. I know that, because when my uncle was a teen in the 1930s, he got knocked out when he stood up & hit a bridge! He lived until his mid 80s. The roofs were added later, but weren't full height. The books establish that the ones received in 1917 or about then didn't have roofs; enclosed ones started around 1927 (Krambles, page 44). They also establish that CMC got a fleet of "Big Berthas," which were enclosed double deckers received in 1934-1938 (Krambles, page 45). The picture I mentioned of two of them under the Sheridan-Kenmore underpass is on page 46. That caption says that those buses were similar to those on Fifth Avenue Coach, but "had a lower profile needed to pass under viaducts which seldom offered as much as 14'-6" clearance." As I said, that didn't establish how high they actually were. Not sure whether you were implying "to the same buses" when you said "added later." They weren't the same buses. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
juelzkellz Posted January 27, 2015 Report Share Posted January 27, 2015 I read the book "Moneyball" and I see a way the theory can be used to improve our transit network. The theory goes if you haven't read the book or watched the movie is the GM of the Oakliand A's uses very detailed statistics to determine what players were most likely to be successful. The first thing I would do is combine CTA, PACE, and METRA under one organization, with a person who is well versed in transit operations in charge. Ideally someone who has a Steve Jobs-Type complex who is not afraid to piss people off and make changes that need to be made. The point is that no matter what you do people are going to be pissed about any changes and don't know what they really want. A firm hand is what is needed to move forward. My plan would be to gather stats for a year or two to see what changes need to be made. After this, I would use these stats to save as much money as possible and use the savings to bring the system to a state of good repair. Once that is done, then would I proceed to do additions to the system. The bottom line is that no help is coming and we need to be creative and maximize use of our resources. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Busjack Posted January 27, 2015 Report Share Posted January 27, 2015 I read the book "Moneyball" and I see a way the theory can be used to improve our transit network..... Only problem is that Billy Beane and Theo Epstein haven't shown much success on the baseball front either. I just commented on Cubs Den that what they write about has nothing to do with baseball, and if they were in charge 60 years ago, the debate would have been whether to keep Ernie Banks at the KC Monarchs for another 9 games. Obviously, though, you are correct that having 3 organizations, with the largest one being run [illegally, I might add] by someone having no knowledge of transit operations doesn't work. That person doesn't mind pissing off persons to make changes, either, but a difference between a private enterprise and transit is that transit, being publicly supported and serving the public, has to be somewhat responsive to the public. At least Ricketts isn't saying that he needs billions of public money to make capital improvements (although the Sox and Bears did), even though Theo said he wasn't throwing a cookie to the fans. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Komplex Posted January 29, 2015 Report Share Posted January 29, 2015 85 Central make it to Owl service from Jeff Park to the Pink Line connect with 60 Blue Island bus. Make Greenline extension to Melrose Park around North ave/25th street area. Make North ave bus Owl service. I will post more when I think of good ideas Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NewFlyerMCI Posted January 29, 2015 Report Share Posted January 29, 2015 85 Central make it to Owl service from Jeff Park to the Pink Line connect with 60 Blue Island bus. Make North ave bus Owl service. CTA has owl service where it feels that there is a demand, usually along routes that serve lots of places where there are people who work during the night and when there are shift changes during the night Make Greenline extension to Melrose Park around North ave/25th street area. Pace 303 (maybe with a reroute or extension to Harlem/Lake), 309, 318, 319, 331. Not to mention the forest preserve in the way. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Busjack Posted January 29, 2015 Report Share Posted January 29, 2015 .... Pace 303 (maybe with a reroute or extension to Harlem/Lake), 309, 318, 319, 331. Not to mention the forest preserve in the way. Besides that, the Metra UPW line is parallel. CA&E died in that general area about 60 years ago (although it then connected with the Garfield Park L, the predecessor of the Forest Park Blue Line). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jajuan Posted January 29, 2015 Report Share Posted January 29, 2015 I forgot that Enviros were double deckers until you mentioned it. For instance, with regard to going between North Park and routes on LSD, the buses have to get under the underpasses at Ravenswood (UPN) and Broadway (Red Line). Most of them are posted at about 11 feet. There is the always convenient viaduct clearances page.Only sufficient clearances at Ravenswood are at Foster (listed as 13'10") and Lawrence (14'4"). Alexander Dennis says that the Enviro 500 requires a clearance of 13.6' for the America model. Remember that the hybrid bus couldn't get under the underpass on Wilson and Ravenswood (listed at 10'6"), and most of the hybrids are 11'. Sheridan east of Broadway is listed as 12'3". There are pictures of CMC double deckers going under it, but it wasn't mentioned what the dimension was (other than they were shorter than comparable NYC buses). People have mentioned that asphalt repaving may have affected the height of the street, or that the viaducts are conservatively posted, but that's still 15" short for an Enviro. Other clearances intersecting bus routes at the Red Line are Berwyn (11'4"), Bryn Mawr (12'6"), Foster (11'10"), Granville (11'1), Lawrence (11'2"), Rogers (11'8"), Sheridan-Loyola (12'8") and Howard (11'6"). All of the overpasses on Jeffery are posted 11'6". So, the mysterious means also include completely rebuilding the UPN and RPM, and various railroads on the south side. Of course we know Chicago has those means CTA doesn't care about seating, and counts an articulated bus as about 120 passengers. Yeah the rerouting of the 145 and 148 from along Damen and Lawrence to along Ashand and Lawrence to the terminal at Ravenswood because of the 4000s being too tall for the UP-N underpass at Wilson was the first thing that came to mind. (It's also why we never saw any 800s on those when Kedzie operated them before DeCrowd and only really saw any of them in rare occasions on the 10, 134 and 143). I knew if hybrids were prone to potential underpass clearance problems, double decker bus woudl definitely be a clearance problem on Chicago streets. That issue I imagaine is probably why we so rarely see any American TAs use double deckers and more often than not turn to artics for any higher capacity routes they have. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Busjack Posted January 29, 2015 Report Share Posted January 29, 2015 ...That issue I imagaine is probably why we so rarely see any American TAs use double deckers and more often than not turn to artics for any higher capacity routes they have. Besides that, having most of the seats on the upper level can't facilitate passenger unloading, aside from whether the passengers can be encouraged to go up there and not block the stairs. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jajuan Posted January 30, 2015 Report Share Posted January 30, 2015 Besides that, having most of the seats on the upper level can't facilitate passenger unloading, aside from whether the passengers can be encouraged to go up there and not block the stairs. True. Height phobias aside, there would be the matter of passengers not blocking the stairs if they are convinced to go up there. As it is, they already block the rear doors of single deck buses of each available service lengths we find them in. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NewFlyerMCI Posted February 7, 2015 Report Share Posted February 7, 2015 Introduce Weekday service along Oak Park ave. (159) Option 1) Runs btwn North/Narragansett to Harlem Blue Line via North, Oak Park, Gunnison, Harlem, w/ a possible extension to Presence Resurrection Hospital +Possible service to Presence Resurrection Hospital +Chicago Read Hospital +Denizens close to Oak Park Ave +No duplicate service (at least for pace) +Serves Blue Line +Wright College +Mars (Metra) +Could replace 81W peak service Option 2) Same as above, but southern portion is extended to Oak Park Green Line +Possible service to Presence Resurrection Hospital +Chicago Read Hospital +Denizens close to Oak Park Ave +Serves Blue/Green Lines +FLW Historic District +Wright College +Mars (Metra) -Duplicate service btwn North & Green Line (Pace 311) 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NewFlyerMCI Posted February 7, 2015 Report Share Posted February 7, 2015 Extend 92 to Harlem Blue Line (Via Foster & Harlem) +Denizens on Foster Ave +John W. Garvy HS Restore Central on the Blue Line +Neighborhood Build Kostner and either Western or Damen on the Green Line (all of these areas have acceptable passenger base areas neighborhood wise. Western or Damen get another stop to lessen crowding (more so on the 49) Kostner +Factories in the area +Neighborhood Western +Better connection to Ukrainian National Museum (of Art, I believe) +Neighborhood +Phoenix Military Academy Damen +Better connection to Ukrainian National Museum (of Art, I believe) +Chicago Bulls College Prep +United Center (would be better served by Madison infill on Pink Line) +Suder Montessori +Malcom X College (better served by IMD on Blue Line) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Busjack Posted February 8, 2015 Report Share Posted February 8, 2015 Extend 92 to Harlem Blue Line (Via Foster & Harlem) +Denizens on Foster Ave +John W. Garvy HS .... Historically (before Jefferson Park opened) Foster was connected with Northwest Highway. After Jefferson Park opened, there was a 64 Foster-Lawrence loop, and then for some time just a Foster bit of it (a circulator around the Harlem station). Apparently there was no demand to keep it. In any event, 92 would still have to feed Jefferson Park for transfers to O'Hare and other buses in the terminal. Also 68 and 88 seem close enough. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jajuan Posted February 10, 2015 Report Share Posted February 10, 2015 Introduce Weekday service along Oak Park ave. (159) Option 1) Runs btwn North/Narragansett to Harlem Blue Line via North, Oak Park, Gunnison, Harlem, w/ a possible extension to Presence Resurrection Hospital +Possible service to Presence Resurrection Hospital +Chicago Read Hospital +Denizens close to Oak Park Ave +No duplicate service (at least for pace) +Serves Blue Line +Wright College +Mars (Metra) +Could replace 81W peak service Option 2) Same as above, but southern portion is extended to Oak Park Green Line +Possible service to Presence Resurrection Hospital +Chicago Read Hospital +Denizens close to Oak Park Ave +Serves Blue/Green Lines +FLW Historic District +Wright College +Mars (Metra) -Duplicate service btwn North & Green Line (Pace 311) Interesting proposal for Oak Park Avenue. If they could make that work, it brings up the question of whether it would strengthen past arguments on the forum for beefing up the 86 in some way now that its taking on the former Milwaukee/Imlay portion of the 91 seems to have drawn increases of Wright College students using that route. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BusHunter Posted February 10, 2015 Report Share Posted February 10, 2015 Interesting proposal for Oak Park Avenue. If they could make that work, it brings up the question of whether it would strengthen past arguments on the forum for beefing up the 86 in some way now that its taking on the former Milwaukee/Imlay portion of the 91 seems to have drawn increases of Wright College students using that route. They could probably run weekend service on the #86 if they had a Nagle Blue line stop. Right out of the gate it serves Taft HS and if you wanted to run an Oak Park bus, it would make an attractive terminal, also if they ran it past Wright college (Nagle/Montrose/ Forest Preserve Dr/Oak Park to the Green line) they could feed on that ridership. Plus with a Nagle stop/#86 additional service maybe they could attract riders off the #270 that want to go to Devon and give them another option that has less traffic and more capacity cause the Milwaukee corridor since they got rid of #56A is too crowded. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Busjack Posted February 10, 2015 Report Share Posted February 10, 2015 They could probably run weekend service on the #86 if they had a Nagle Blue line stop. Right out of the gate it serves Taft HS and if you wanted to run an Oak Park bus, it would make an attractive terminal. Plus maybe they could attract riders off the #270 that want to go to Devon and give them another option that has less traffic and less standing room only space. After having abandoned 56A, I don't think CTA cares about the latter passengers. I don't have an opinion whether there are sufficient passenger generators on Oak Park Ave, but there is also the question whether, despite it being on a half mile road, whether it has the capacity to handle buses. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NewFlyerMCI Posted February 11, 2015 Report Share Posted February 11, 2015 After having abandoned 56A, I don't think CTA cares about the latter passengers. I don't have an opinion whether there are sufficient passenger generators on Oak Park Ave, but there is also the question whether, despite it being on a half mile road, whether it has the capacity to handle buses. Capacity as in weight? Or capacity as in traffic? Not many people are (or even would/should be) using Oak Park (at least btwn North & Foster) as a traffic escape. The suggested routing wouldn't be running for that long or have that short of an interval. It was meant to be a cross btwn 95W level service and 30 level service (worth waiting for vs you had better know when the bus is coming or you'll be waiting forever). Unfortunately, we no longer have 35 or 30 foot buses (personally, I think would should have had more, especially at 77th (where the 170's should have been), 74th/Archer, and FG, which is what I would have recommended for this route. Still believe CTA should have ordered 30-50 XDE35s, but I digress. They could probably run weekend service on the #86 if they had a Nagle Blue line stop. Right out of the gate it serves Taft HS and if you wanted to run an Oak Park bus, it would make an attractive terminal, also if they ran it past Wright college (Nagle/Montrose/ Forest Preserve Dr/Oak Park to the Green line) they could feed on that ridership. Plus with a Nagle stop/#86 additional service maybe they could attract riders off the #270 that want to go to Devon and give them another option that has less traffic and more capacity cause the Milwaukee corridor since they got rid of #56A is too crowded. With the amount of infills CTA seems to love doing in recent years, that might actually happen, jk. However, I only see them doing short turns on the 86, in either direction, from N./Naragansett, on a route that is already short. Additionally, Wright College would also probably benefit from the 78 serving the same stops as the 86 and the 86 possibly also serving Chicago Read (preventing people from having to walk and/or wait for a bus only to go less than 5 stops) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BusHunter Posted February 11, 2015 Report Share Posted February 11, 2015 Capacity as in weight? Or capacity as in traffic? Not many people are (or even would/should be) using Oak Park (at least btwn North & Foster) as a traffic escape. The suggested routing wouldn't be running for that long or have that short of an interval. It was meant to be a cross btwn 95W level service and 30 level service (worth waiting for vs you had better know when the bus is coming or you'll be waiting forever). Unfortunately, we no longer have 35 or 30 foot buses (personally, I think would should have had more, especially at 77th (where the 170's should have been), 74th/Archer, and FG, which is what I would have recommended for this route. Still believe CTA should have ordered 30-50 XDE35s, but I digress. With the amount of infills CTA seems to love doing in recent years, that might actually happen, jk. However, I only see them doing short turns on the 86, in either direction, from N./Naragansett, on a route that is already short. Additionally, Wright College would also probably benefit from the 78 serving the same stops as the 86 and the 86 possibly also serving Chicago Read (preventing people from having to walk and/or wait for a bus only to go less than 5 stops) I think the whole reason for the 30 foot failure is because they bought Optimas. If they would have bought Eldorados like Pace, they would've had a much better bus and I believe we would be in a different place with our beliefs on short buses, but that lies on whoever is inspecting buses and gave the OK on these. As far as Oak Park being too small, it sure doesn't stop the buses from going down Lunt or the streets at the U of C campus. In fact some of the roads for the #100 on the east end are real narrow. I can't see how you could drive a bus down Avenue B, but they do it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Busjack Posted February 11, 2015 Report Share Posted February 11, 2015 Capacity as in weight? Or capacity as in traffic? Not many people are (or even would/should be) using Oak Park (at least btwn North & Foster) as a traffic escape. .. More the issue of a continuous, wide street, which you about picked up with the following: .... Unfortunately, we no longer have 35 or 30 foot buses (personally, I think would should have had more, especially at 77th (where the 170's should have been), 74th/Archer, and FG, which is what I would have recommended for this route. Still believe CTA should have ordered 30-50 XDE35s, but I digress..... I think the whole reason for the 30 foot failure is because they bought Optimas. If they would have bought Eldorados like Pace, they would've had a much better bus and I believe we would be in a different place with our beliefs on short buses, but that lies on whoever is inspecting buses and gave the OK on these. As far as Oak Park being too small, it sure doesn't stop the buses from going down Lunt or the streets at the U of C campus. In fact some of the roads for the #100 on the east end are real narrow. I can't see how you could drive a bus down Avenue B, but they do it. BusHunter did figure out my point. However, we have to go back to 2004 when the Optimas were ordered. The justification was Hyde Park's narrow streets required a 96 inch wide bus. Up to that time CTA didn't have any problem running 40 foot long, but 96 inch wide 4900s and 4915s (Pace Orion Is). However, basically the only things available at that time that were low floor and approximately 96" wide were the Optimas at 99" and some Blue Bird essentially airport shuttle bus. The EZ Rider II Max is a 102 inch bus. CPTDB indicates that demonstrators became available in 2005. The EZ Rider goes back to 1996, but according to CPTDB, had smaller GVWR and tires.I don't know if they are similar to the contemporaneous Pace Transmarks, but those were rust buckets. If CTA were serious about a 96" wide bus, the only thing that became available was the NF Midi, about a year ago. Admittedly, CTA has figured out how to shoehorn a 102" bus in Hyde Park and Evanston. I question whether (especially given bus system contraction) it would be interested in doing so elsewhere as a service expansion. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Komplex Posted February 12, 2015 Report Share Posted February 12, 2015 They could probably run weekend service on the #86 if they had a Nagle Blue line stop. Right out of the gate it serves Taft HS and if you wanted to run an Oak Park bus, it would make an attractive terminal, also if they ran it past Wright college (Nagle/Montrose/ Forest Preserve Dr/Oak Park to the Green line) they could feed on that ridership. Plus with a Nagle stop/#86 additional service maybe they could attract riders off the #270 that want to go to Devon and give them another option that has less traffic and more capacity cause the Milwaukee corridor since they got rid of #56A is too crowded. Nagle blue line stop would be very perfect especially for Taft. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tcmetro Posted February 17, 2015 Report Share Posted February 17, 2015 Alright, well since we have this topic, I'll leave my Metra Electric proposal here. 1. Run two local services every 20 minutes all-day, every 30 minutes at night. The first service would serve all stops from Millennium to Harvey. The second would serve all stops from Millennium to South Chicago. Hyde Park would have a 10 minute all day service. 2. Close stations at 111th St, 107th St, 91st St, 83rd St, 75th St, 27th St, and 18th St. 3. Open new stations at Pershing and 130th St. 4. Close the Blue Island Branch. Riders can take the Rock Island or a bus. 5. Express trains would run every 30 minutes making all stops from University Park to Harvey, then express to Millennium stopping at Harvey, 115th, 55th, and Van Buren. Late night trains would be extensions of locals from Harvey. Zone E and F/G expresses would be separate at rush hour. 6. Fares in the City will be $2.25 and include a CTA transfer. Fares in the suburbs will have a regular Metra fare. All ticketing will use Ventra, and will require riders to tap on and tap off. Conductors will essentially check and make sure riders tap their cards. 7. I suppose all trains would initially be 1 or 2 cars long at first (for local service), and could be increased in length if ridership allows. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
artthouwill Posted February 17, 2015 Report Share Posted February 17, 2015 Alright, well since we have this topic, I'll leave my Metra Electric proposal here. 1. Run two local services every 20 minutes all-day, every 30 minutes at night. The first service would serve all stops from Millennium to Harvey. The second would serve all stops from Millennium to South Chicago. Hyde Park would have a 10 minute all day service. 2. Close stations at 111th St, 107th St, 91st St, 83rd St, 75th St, 27th St, and 18th St. 3. Open new stations at Pershing and 130th St. 4. Close the Blue Island Branch. Riders can take the Rock Island or a bus. 5. Express trains would run every 30 minutes making all stops from University Park to Harvey, then express to Millennium stopping at Harvey, 115th, 55th, and Van Buren. Late night trains would be extensions of locals from Harvey. Zone E and F/G expresses would be separate at rush hour. 6. Fares in the City will be $2.25 and include a CTA transfer. Fares in the suburbs will have a regular Metra fare. All ticketing will use Ventra, and will require riders to tap on and tap off. Conductors will essentially check and make sure riders tap their cards. 7. I suppose all trains would initially be 1 or 2 cars long at first (for local service), and could be increased in length if ridership allows. I don't know if you relocated here from the Twin Cities, but your proposal will not happen here. Unlike in Minneapolis wher MetroTransit oversees both local bus service and commuter service (not to mention light rail), CTA, Metra and Pace are three separate service boards. Metra exclusively operates on distance based fares. A system that would have city fares (not just on the ME) match CTA rail fares then insanely jump once lines cross into suburbs would be a political nightmare unless those suburban fares were lowered based on the city fare. Note that Metra just INCREASED fares with the hardest increases occuring in the city and close in suburbs where Metra competes with CTA. ME is unique in that it is the only Metra line really that you can transfer from one train to another on a single ride. Thus those that ride express trains can transfer at 115th to a local train and Blue Island local riders can transfer to an express train at 115th as well. Similar transfers can be made a 55th in Hyde Park as well. It would be political suicide if Metra were to close any inner city station on that line or even the Blue Island branch. It would certainly be a racial issue as the ME is the line that serves predominately African American neighborhoods in the city and suburbs. ME is also one of the busiest lines so that its rush hour trains are zoned running every 20 minutes. Basically, with 4 express zones, there is a train leaving downtown every 5 minutes, not including Blue Island rush express trains, Sotu Chicago trains (with 20 min frequencies) and the Kensington Locals (every 20 minutes alternating with the South Chicago trains). 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Busjack Posted February 17, 2015 Report Share Posted February 17, 2015 Re: TcMetro's post: 6. Basically you are kicking around the Gray Line, which has been kicked around for 15 years. So long as there is neither abolition of the service boards nor any incentive for CTA to deal with Metra, it won't happen, as typified that there was no discount for using Metra while the Red Line was closed, just that CTA offered to sell a 5 day pass coupled with a Metra 10 ride ticket. Basically, the rest of it is that you want to move the city line to Harvey, instead of Kensington. Without the transfers to CTA, there is insufficient demand between 63rd and Kensington. Most of the time those are listed as flag stops. On the other hand, you would have to justify slow service to essentially the Riverdale portion. You also don't make allowance for the rush hour zone trains, thereby assuring slower trips for those at least in the University Park-Olympia Fields zone. Rest assured, the suburban riders on the ME will scream about this, as they did about the fare controls and lack of washrooms. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Busjack Posted February 17, 2015 Report Share Posted February 17, 2015 I generally concur with art's post, with one exception: Many Metra lines have zones and transfers between them. For instance, the Milw N. is zoned essentially north and south of Libertyville. Some trains local north of Deerfield going southbound stop at Lake Cook and North Glenview because those are essentially reverse commute stations. However, if you are going from Grayslake to Northbrook, Glenview, or Morton Grove, you have to transfer. Similarly, there are transfers at Glenview or Lake Cook from local trains that only run to Deerfield and express trains to Fox Lake that make their first stop at Glenview or Lake Cook.The zone system on the IC was taken from that on the BN, but I don't know what the transfer rules are. I certainly concur with you on the political difficulty of implementing anything like this. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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