If I ran Transit for one day...

[strictures]

Both of you forget that 9 connects with 22 at Southport, and north of there Ashland is within one block of Clark. Maybe you acknowledge that north of Edgewater, Ashland is on Clark.

Also, 50 is now on Ashland north of Foster.

So, either you propose cutting 22 back at Southport, or both of you are proposing a waste.

No, I want the X9 back & have it run on Ashland, into Clark to Devon. No more east on Irving Park to Sheridan.

I'd gladly walk a block or two over to get express service & avoid the disaster that is & always has been Clark St.

Plus Clark needs way more buses most of the time & this would help.

[Busjack]

No, I want the X9 back & have it run on Ashland, into Clark to Devon. No more east on Irving Park to Sheridan.

I'd gladly walk a block or two over to get express service & avoid the disaster that is & always has been Clark St.

Plus Clark needs way more buses most of the time & this would help.

Clark south of Bryn Mawr doesn't have the capacity for much more of anything. There certainly isn't the room for an express bus to pass a local. I had a similar objection to an X79 bus east of State.*

The justification for the X buses was that they ran where the L didn't, and the terminal at Sheridan was to connect it to the L.

___________

*If anyone thinks that X55 is coming back, not after the Gabe Klein treatment reducing 55th to one lane with mandatory stops at pedestrian crossings between Cottage Grove and Lake Park. On the biker front, I wonder about the cutover for buses across the bike lane at all bus stops.

[strictures]

Clark south of Bryn Mawr doesn't have the capacity for much more of anything. There certainly isn't the room for an express bus to pass a local. I had a similar objection to an X79 bus east of State.*

No, it would only use Clark north of Edgewater Ave, where it's a four lane street.

[artthouwill]

There should be a station on the Pink Line at VanBuren to connect to the Blue Line at Illinois Medical District in order to restore the transfer point between the Forest Park and Cermak branches, which the Cermak reroute took away from the Racine station.

And to go with that option, the short turns to UIC-Halsted should be either extended to IMD or completely eliminated, so that all Pink Line passengers taking the Blue Line east can board all eastbound Blue Line trains at the first opportunity.

And it would also benefit Blue and Pink Line passengers to easily connect between places along and near Lake, Paulina, and the Eisenhower Expressway.

I don't agree with this at all. For those at Racine who wish to take the Pink Line, those passengers can board a 7 Harrison bus and transfer to the Pink Line at Polk/Paulina. Besides not really being any room to put a station at Van Buren, that is a mighty long walk between the two stations that you are proposing. Also, the 60 provides parallel service to the Pink Line 1/2 mile south of the Pink Line between Damen and Cicero.

The reason 54/Cermak was split from the Blue Line was because the ridership on that branch didn't even match the ridership on the Congress (Forest Pk) branch of the Blue Line. Thus this is a mighty expense you are talking about to serve very few passengers.

If a Pink Line station was built at the United Center, that would be very advantageous. A northbound turn from the Eisenhower incline could be built and some Blue Line trains could begin/end service at the UC for special events. If I am not mistaken, this would be close to the routing of the old Humboldt Park service.

[artthouwill]

Here are a few opinions on what the CTA needs to make some improvements on their Overnight (Owl) bus services. These are routes that should have owl service & routes that could use some changes on their current owl service, and a few that could use could use changing on their routing & service.

•Owl Service

#49 Western - During owl hours, buses should extended south to 87th St. for connection to #87 87th buses.

#52 Kedzie/California - Operate owl service between 36th/Kedzie and California Blue Line (O'Hare)

#72 North Ave. - Operate owl service between North/Clybourn Red Line and North/Cicero or Narragansett

#90 Harlem - Operate owl service between Grand/Nordica and Harlem Blue Line (O'Hare)

#155 Devon - Operate owl service along entire route between Morse Red Line and Devon/Kedzie

•Normal Service

#9 Ashland - Service extend north of Irving Park to Edgewater/Clark or Devon/Clark.

#35 31st/35th - During hours buses travel to/from 24th Pl./Cicero, buses should run via Cicero, 31st, California, and 35th.

#53 Pulaski - Extend service north of Peterson to Devon/Kedzie via Pulaski, Devon, and Devon/Kedzie Terminal for connections to #11, #82, #96 and #155.

#86 Narragansett/Ridgeland -Add saturday service between Wright College and North Ave./Narragansett for Saturday classes.

#92 Foster - Extend service hours for weekdays, and weekends/holidays. Add beach service to Foster Ave. Beach weekends from Memorial Day weekend to Labor Day, and daily beach service from Mid-June to Early August.

#155 Devon - Extend service west of Kedzie to Caldwell/Central or Milwaukee/Imaly.

Have any thoughts on these or any bus route improving of your own, let me know.

I think the only real agreeable one would be owl service on the 72, considering the gap in east west owl service between Chicago Ave and Belmont.

[Busjack]

...

If a Pink Line station was built at the United Center, that would be very advantageous. A northbound turn from the Eisenhower incline could be built and some Blue Line trains could begin/end service at the UC for special events. If I am not mistaken, this would be close to the routing of the old Humboldt Park service.

Essentially, that's correct. The Met and CA&E ran together to Marshfield Jct. The Met then split into its 4 branches, Douglas south, and Logan Square and Humboldt Park north, with Garfield Park and CA&E straight ahead.

The northbound routing ended when Logan Square was routed into the Dearborn subway. According to several books, the Logan Square route didn't extend past LaSalle and Congress until after Congress opened in the expressway, and Douglas, during the construction period, ran on essentially the same routing as the current Pink Line.

[TaylorTank1229]

I think the only real agreeable one would be owl service on the 72, considering the gap in east west owl service between Chicago Ave and Belmont.

I suppose so, but considering that there's no east/west bus service north of Lawrence, it seems fair to add owl service on the #155, especially since I work over by Devon and Kedzie, & I get off around the time the bus stops running. And me and a few of my coworkers have to walk down Devon. The #155 should at least be given owl service too.

[peterpyterek]

I don't agree with this at all. For those at Racine who wish to take the Pink Line, those passengers can board a 7 Harrison bus and transfer to the Pink Line at Polk/Paulina. Besides not really being any room to put a station at Van Buren, that is a mighty long walk between the two stations that you are proposing. Also, the 60 provides parallel service to the Pink Line 1/2 mile south of the Pink Line between Damen and Cicero.

The reason 54/Cermak was split from the Blue Line was because the ridership on that branch didn't even match the ridership on the Congress (Forest Pk) branch of the Blue Line. Thus this is a mighty expense you are talking about to serve very few passengers.

If a Pink Line station was built at the United Center, that would be very advantageous. A northbound turn from the Eisenhower incline could be built and some Blue Line trains could begin/end service at the UC for special events. If I am not mistaken, this would be close to the routing of the old Humboldt Park service.

But Polk is closer to IMD's Paulina entrance than Racine's Loomis entrance. Would that be too long of a walk for a free transfer?

If there's not enough room for a station over the expressway, a VanBuren station's platforms could face towards Jackson, or a Jackson station could get built with a VanBuren auxiliary entrance. And if enough customers walk periodically throughout the day between that and IMD, those could become programmed as free transfer stations via Ventra.

[BusHunter]

Essentially, that's correct. The Met and CA&E ran together to Marshfield Jct. The Met then split into its 4 branches, Douglas south, and Logan Square and Humboldt Park north, with Garfield Park and CA&E straight ahead.

The northbound routing ended when Logan Square was routed into the Dearborn subway. According to several books, the Logan Square route didn't extend past LaSalle and Congress until after Congress opened in the expressway, and Douglas, during the construction period, ran on essentially the same routing as the current Pink Line.

A little known piece of track structure on the paulina connector, the turn right over ogden, is supposed to be from the original Marshfield Junction turn where the three branches branched off. I wonder why they didn't try and straighten that out a little when they rebuilt the connector as trains have to slow down for the curve.

Also the turn over Warren is from where the connector branched off to Lake St. from the main to Logan Sq/Humboldt Pk. I believe in one of the CTA calenders they show a picture circa 1964 of where they had put up the steel for a Lake St connection, as that didn't exist before then. The track just inclined over the Lake St "L" right over to the steel bridge that still exists over the Metra north and west side lines. There's alot of history there, but half of it's missing, but you can still imagine a track from the steel bridge to Warren, that must have been a fascinating sight only now seen in pictures.

[Busjack]

....Also the turn over Warren is from where the connector branched off to Lake St. from the main to Logan Sq/Humboldt Pk. I believe in one of the CTA calenders they show a picture circa 1964 of where they had put up the steel for a Lake St connection, as that didn't exist before then. The track just inclined over the Lake St "L" right over to the steel bridge that still exists over the Metra north and west side lines. ....

chicago-l.org has has a page on the former transfer station between the Met and Lake Street.

[jajuan]

No, I want the X9 back & have it run on Ashland, into Clark to Devon. No more east on Irving Park to Sheridan.

I'd gladly walk a block or two over to get express service & avoid the disaster that is & always has been Clark St.

Plus Clark needs way more buses most of the time & this would help.

You do realize rush hour peak direction headways are about 5 or 6 mins in the AM (south of Foster) and 3 to 7 mins in the PM, correct? It averages every 10 during most other times during the daytime hours. So how many more buses could the 22 possibly need under those conditions?

[Busjack]

You do realize rush hour peak direction headways are about 5 or 6 mins in the AM (south of Foster) and 3 to 7 mins in the PM, correct? It averages every 10 during most other times during the daytime hours. So how many more buses could the 22 possibly need under those conditions?

Besides that, as strictures restricted his proposal, the only way it is justified is that if there is a whole mess of people at either Clark and Devon or Clark and Peterson that somehow want to go on Ashland instead of toward downtown, since that's essentially all that would be served.

[peterpyterek]

The Green Line should be split into 2 lines by having the Lake Street and South Side trains rerouted onto the full Outer Loop for the following reasons:

To fill in the service gaps directly to Washington/Wells from Clinton and Clark/Lake and from Harold Washington Library-State/VanBuren to Roosevelt

To make the clockwise and counterclockwise service frequencies more balanced

So that all 4 Loop legs can be entered and exited in all 16 directions

For a full continuous Loop circle in both directions

That would leave the Pink Line to provide all service from Clinton to Adams/Wabash and the Orange Line to provide all service from Clark/Lake to Roosevelt.

What do you think of that idea? How would it affect the outbound schedule if the reroutes were to continue with the current inbound schedule?

[artthouwill]

The Green Line should be split into 2 lines by having the Lake Street and South Side trains rerouted onto the full Outer Loop for the following reasons:

To fill in the service gaps directly to Washington/Wells from Clinton and Clark/Lake and from Harold Washington Library-State/VanBuren to Roosevelt

To make the clockwise and counterclockwise service frequencies more balanced

So that all 4 Loop legs can be entered and exited in all 16 directions

For a full continuous Loop circle in both directions

That would leave the Pink Line to provide all service from Clinton to Adams/Wabash and the Orange Line to provide all service from Clark/Lake to Roosevelt.

What do you think of that idea? How would it affect the outbound schedule if the reroutes were to continue with the current inbound schedule?

Splitting the Green Line may make sense, but not for the reasons you suggest. As it stands now, the Lake St portion has a healthy ridership, the south side portion not so much. Separating the two would allow the West side to have 8 car trains during peak time and maybe 6 cars off peak. The south side portion would have to be paired with something else, either by rerouting Purple through the subway or making the Pink Line a thru route connecting to the south side Green,

Besides, having every Loop elevated route circle the entire Loop will only cause delays and major backups.

[strictures]

You do realize rush hour peak direction headways are about 5 or 6 mins in the AM (south of Foster) and 3 to 7 mins in the PM, correct? It averages every 10 during most other times during the daytime hours. So how many more buses could the 22 possibly need under those conditions?

Ride the 22 & you'll see that most of the time in rush hour, it's not enough capacity.

In fact today, at 1 PM, the 22 SB was jammed from Devon south to past Irving Park.

NB was running all bunched up at the same time.

In my personal experience, only the 4 is a bigger mess & that's because it's the second longest route to enter downtown that isn't an express.

The 3 is longer, but because the CTA gives it more buses than the 4, it runs way better.

[Busjack]

Ride the 22 & you'll see that most of the time in rush hour, it's not enough capacity.

In fact today, at 1 PM, the 22 SB was jammed from Devon south to past Irving Park.

NB was running all bunched up at the same time.

...

You just contradicted yourself. You said before that all you would be adding service on Clark is between Devon and Edgewater.

There is no way Clark can be unclogged anywhere else. If what you are really trying to say is that the only way to add capacity is on Ashland instead of Clark, then do what I said and make the north terminal of Clark at Irving Park and Ashland. If Forrest rides the bus, though, he would have to walk 2 blocks further to catch it, but I doubt that he does (and has to walk 3 blocks to the Brown Line, which he claims to ride).

[jajuan]

Ride the 22 & you'll see that most of the time in rush hour, it's not enough capacity.

In fact today, at 1 PM, the 22 SB was jammed from Devon south to past Irving Park.

NB was running all bunched up at the same time.

In my personal experience, only the 4 is a bigger mess & that's because it's the second longest route to enter downtown that isn't an express.

The 3 is longer, but because the CTA gives it more buses than the 4, it runs way better.

I ride the 22 everyday during different parts of the day, and my response is still the same. Just how many buses do you think CTA is supposed to send down Clark? If capacity is the issue, maybe some arctic use outside of morning rush, evenings and weekends is the answer. But with scheduled headways as little as 3 minutes, the number of buses isn't the issue unless you expect them to schedule buses on that one route one bus every minute instead of one every three during rush periods. Plus there is the factor that there was a Cubs home game yesterday, so it's possible there were folks riding down to buy tickets. I live in that area near where West Rogers Park, Edgewater, and Andersonville meet and see when Cubs fans from around the area all gather together and ride the bus down a few hours early to meet up with whatever friends they're watching the game with and/or to buy tickets.

[Busjack]

...

Besides, having every Loop elevated route circle the entire Loop will only cause delays and major backups.

Although there appears to be a left turn from Lake to Wells, using it would just make the backup at Tower 18 even worse. At least Green Line trains can go straight through there.

[peterpyterek]

The Conservatory-Central Park Drive station name should, to avoid confusion with Lincoln Park Conservatory, be changed to Garfield Park Conservatory-Central Park Drive.

[jajuan]

The Conservatory-Central Park Drive station name should, to avoid confusion with Lincoln Park Conservatory, be changed to Garfield Park Conservatory-Central Park Drive.

I doubt there there's little chance of the type of confusion you speak of given the Central Park part of the station name and the fact that you have to travel a few blocks more to the Lincoln Park Conservatory from the closest L station (Fullerton Red/Brown/Purple) than you would to the Garfield Park Conservatory from the Green Line station, in that case a quick stroll across Garfield Park.

[MTRSP1900-CTA3200]

The Conservatory-Central Park Drive station name should, to avoid confusion with Lincoln Park Conservatory, be changed to Garfield Park Conservatory-Central Park Drive.

Most likely you'd have to pay for it yourself if you want it done. I believe this was a source of controversy with the Washington Metro.

Also, jajuan pointed out another good point in renaming the station.

[peterpyterek]

I doubt there there's little chance of the type of confusion you speak of given the Central Park part of the station name and the fact that you have to travel a few blocks more to the Lincoln Park Conservatory from the closest L station (Fullerton Red/Brown/Purple) than you would to the Garfield Park Conservatory from the Green Line station, in that case a quick stroll across Garfield Park.

Well, this idea is just like why in 2010 Library-State/VanBuren was renamed Harold Washington Library-State/VanBuren.

[peterpyterek]

In order to better serve more of the Near West Side, the Green Line should have stations constructed at Western and Damen. Those stations would certainly give the line more ridership with the boardings from the 49 Western and 50 Damen buses. They would be closer choices than Ashland and California for those between Wood and Rockwell, and faster options than taking the 20 Madison and 65 Grand buses.

And the same thing should be done for helping Austin and West Garfield Park by putting a station at Kostner as a choice for those closer to to that street than Cicero or Pulaski.

[Busjack]

In order to better serve more of the Near West Side, the Green Line should have stations constructed at Western and Damen. Those stations would certainly give the line more ridership with the boardings from the 49 Western and 50 Damen buses. They would be closer choices than Ashland and California for those between Wood and Rockwell, and faster options than taking the 20 Madison and 65 Grand buses.

And the same thing should be done for helping Austin and West Garfield Park by putting a station at Kostner as a choice for those closer to to that street than Cicero or Pulaski.

They didn't have the money in 1995, and there is no evidence that people would rather transfer from the Western bus at Lake than at Armitage (Blue Line).

Otherwise, do you have passenger studies showing demand or a passenger generator near that corner not being served, or, like your RPM post, you are offended by lack of a station every quarter mile?

[artthouwill]

In order to better serve more of the Near West Side, the Green Line should have stations constructed at Western and Damen. Those stations would certainly give the line more ridership with the boardings from the 49 Western and 50 Damen buses. They would be closer choices than Ashland and California for those between Wood and Rockwell, and faster options than taking the 20 Madison and 65 Grand buses.

And the same thing should be done for helping Austin and West Garfield Park by putting a station at Kostner as a choice for those closer to to that street than Cicero or Pulaski.

I think you like attention. Is that why you post these crazy ideas?

If I am not mistaken, CTA stations at Western and Damen were closed years ago due to lack of ridership. Those who live along those streets have east west options downtown via Jackson (126), Madison (20), Grand (65), and Chicago (66). At North Ave (Damen) and Armitage (western) you have the Blue Line (O'Hare branch), so there is no reason for anyone to ride a bus to transfer to the Green Line when these are one seat ride options going downtown.

As for Kostner, there really isn't a population base to support a Kostner station. The only business over there may be the beer distributor once owned by one of Jesse Jackson's sons, but not anything worthy of building a station.