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Tagging: Vandalism or Art?


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Recently, CTA released a statement describing how cameras on trains, buses, and other CTA properties (such as stations and rail yards) catch people who spray graffiti in rail cars and buses.


Bear with me when I say this: Some people view this as a great idea, others, surprisingly, see it as art. I, personally, see as how did they get to strange places in the first place. For example, someone somehow got to the 61st Street Yards (which Green Line trains bypass to and from Cottage Grove/63rd), and tag up a pair of 2200-series rail cars.

I want to know from you guys: Is tagging a good idea or bad idea?

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Recently, CTA released a statement describing how cameras on trains, buses, and other CTA properties (such as stations and rail yards) catch people who spray graffiti in rail cars and buses.

Bear with me when I say this: Some people view this as a great idea, others, surprisingly, see it as art. I, personally, see as how did they get to strange places in the first place. For example, someone somehow got to the 61st Street Yards (which Green Line trains bypass to and from Cottage Grove/63rd), and tag up a pair of 2200-series rail cars.

I want to know from you guys: Is tagging a good idea or bad idea?

Tagging is art only if you own the canvas or have permission to use it.

The last I heard, none of the purveyors of sprayed on or etched gang signs own any of CTA's property. Maybe they can get one of the federally subsidized sculpture contracts.

And since you mention the yards, it was pointed out in the news media that there is a specific crime of trespassing on government property, like most posted CTA property.

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Even if the graffiti somehow manages to come close to looking OK, it's still a bad idea. Spraying graffiti on a concrete wall is one thing, but when you add a 600V third rail and moving trains, it just sounds terrible. Plus, there is an expectation for our trains to be clean.

In an art history class I took, part of the class focused on a graffiti artist named Banksy or something like that. Sure, most of his work had a good message, but would you like a message sprayed on the side of your commercial building?

Honestly I'd just get out a paint brush and a canvas, or bust out Adobe Illustrator. Both are cheaper than the lawsuits from the CTA.

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In an art history class I took, part of the class focused on a graffiti artist named Banksy or something like that. Sure, most of his work had a good message, but would you like a message sprayed on the side of your commercial building?

I would love for Banksy to graffiti my garage door. It would then sell to some idiot in the NYC art world for at least $100,000!

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Not going to work if he sprays it on a brick wall.

Sure it would. I'd support the roof with cribbing, disassemble & sell the wall & rebuild the garage for under $10,000.

That's a $90,000 profit.

But I have a wood garage, so even a greater profit.

Plus it's a capital gain, so the tax bite is just 15%.

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Recently, CTA released a statement describing how cameras on trains, buses, and other CTA properties (such as stations and rail yards) catch people who spray graffiti in rail cars and buses.

Bear with me when I say this: Some people view this as a great idea, others, surprisingly, see it as art. I, personally, see as how did they get to strange places in the first place. For example, someone somehow got to the 61st Street Yards (which Green Line trains bypass to and from Cottage Grove/63rd), and tag up a pair of 2200-series rail cars.

I want to know from you guys: Is tagging a good idea or bad idea?

Well, let me answer your question with a question.... say you owned a 1992-1993 Ford Aerostar... not the best looking minivan, but it gets you from point A to point B with little issue... well maintained, etc... now let's say you wake up to go wherever(market, friend's house, etc...) and you find this... what would your reaction be here, knowing this is YOUR property that has been tagged. Would you be ok with this, or ready to knock someone's teeth out for all the work you'll need to get this tagging off and recoating your minivan to get it back to it's original condition, as the graffiti removing chemicals will remove coating of the paint of the van already?

I think you'll find your answer to whether tagging is a good or bad idea in this scenario.

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Seriously, how is this even a question?

It was in NYC, where network news was running all sorts of stories about these fartists, who had tagged pretty much all of the subway cars. Then whoever was then mayor in NY (I think Giuliani) said zero tolerance on this, the squeegee boys, etc. My impression was that CTA adopted a similar policy, and if it hadn't then, Claypool has certainly done so now.

I'm sure whoever painted the Fresh Moves bus thought it was art, but at least it was on scrap. Even the "go to college" commercial on digital subchannels has some guy painting up a wall (and another has a girl trying to kill herself by skateboarding on a stair railing, I guess both supposedly showing perseverance).

CTA once let Black Pearl Workshop paint a bus, but CTA gave permission. I suppose that if someone is really into art, go to somewhere like that. Some community groups allow painting railroad overpass supports.

...and you find this... what would your reaction be here...

Maybe more relevant, you are in the taxi business and have that done to your taxi (which you either own or lease from some dispatch company). You are supposed to keep your vehicle in presentable condition to serve the public, but because you parked it on the street in front of your house, someone did that. You better hope that insurance pays for a new paint job, but you are still out of work for a couple weeks.

CTA is also supposedly serving the public in a similar manner. Taxpayers or riders just paid $1.4 million for a new rail car, and immediately it looks (and maybe smells) like (as you previously mentioned).

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I would love for Banksy to graffiti my garage door. It would then sell to some idiot in the NYC art world for at least $100,000!

Apparently this refers to this Tribune article. One should note, in addition to the dispute over who has ownership and the right to auction the paintings, various references in the gallery to various of his works being "defaced by vandals." There may be a distinction in the art world between his art and vandalism, but it is not often clarified in the captions whether he had a superior property right to the vandals with regard to graffiti.

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It was under Giuliani when the NYPD cracked down on graffiti vandals. And "fartists" might be the best description I've ever heard to describe these idiots.

It was in NYC, where network news was running all sorts of stories about these fartists, who had tagged pretty much all of the subway cars. Then whoever was then mayor in NY (I think Giuliani) said zero tolerance on this, the squeegee boys, etc. My impression was that CTA adopted a similar policy, and if it hadn't then, Claypool has certainly done so now.

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  • 1 year later...

On the other hand, I wish Banksy would paint over my garage door.

I could make a fortune selling it to an art collector.

Reading up, I realized you made the comment before, but I hadn't put together that this and the prior Tribune articles referred to the same person.

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Graffiti, if left unchecked, eventually covers everything. Look at New York. By 1982, every single subway car was completely covered, inside and out, mostly with scribbles. Once NYCTA made a serious push to get rid of the garbage, it just moved elsewhere. Now you see every single freight car on US railroads with stuff on it. Now you see many delivery trucks with garbage on them. Almost every building in Bucktown has now been hit. There literally will not be any end to it until your car gets hit. (I have seen cars graffitied.) It can be stopped, but it is very, very hard. NYCTA has "anti-graffiti squads" at terminals that check every incoming train, and any train with graffiti is immediately laid up for cleaning, even at the height of the rush. Plus the anti-graffiti squad jobs are to be filled, no matter what. If the station porter (janitor) gets reassigned for the day, and the garbage does not get picked up, too bad. This is how graffiti was defeated.

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