Random Metra

[Busjack]

1 hour ago, NewFlyerMCI said:

https://www.trains.com/trn/news-reviews/news-wire/chicago-suburbs-seek-9-5-billion-to-mitigate-potential-impact-of-cp-kcs-merger/

https://www.masstransitmag.com/rail/news/21261855/il-proposed-railroad-merger-will-degrade-the-safety-and-reliability-of-chicago-commuter-rail-federal-filing

The real meat of both articles is what Metra is asking for if the merger is allowed. I don't have enough of an opinion to say whether or not the merger should be allowed, but I do believe Metra's fears of more freight trains fouling up service isn't unwarranted at least. It's also funny that Amtrak loves CP, while Metra chafes at their presence lol. That aside, Metra should get everything it's asking for, except that highway interchange, which I assume has to involve either IL-83, IL-19 or both.

 

The  part you quoted from TRAINS didn't make much sense, until reading the Mass Transit article, which said that the freight trains may block access to the platforms. However, IIRC, Metra essentially said tough noogies to a complaint about a freight train blocking access to a platform in Glenview.

This seems to be one of those regulatory tangles, as Metra owns the tracks, out of the Milwaukee Road bankruptcy.

[NewFlyerMCI]

1 hour ago, Busjack said:

The  part you quoted from TRAINS didn't make much sense, until reading the Mass Transit article, which said that the freight trains may block access to the platforms. However, IIRC, Metra essentially said tough noogies to a complaint about a freight train blocking access to a platform in Glenview.

This seems to be one of those regulatory tangles, as Metra owns the tracks, out of the Milwaukee Road bankruptcy.

I suspect that, despite all they’ve asked for, most of it is bluster and what they really want more than anything is dispatching control over a line they own

[Busjack]

3 hours ago, NewFlyerMCI said:

I suspect that, despite all they’ve asked for, most of it is bluster and what they really want more than anything is dispatching control over a line they own

Could be, but I'm surprised that they haven't wanted it for the about 35 years Metra owned the rails, and if that were the only issue, why the 2 railroads couldn't agree on it.

This is sort of the inverse of the UP dispute, but while Metra doesn't want  to own that railroad, there's still the  complaint that the dispatch is remote.

[artthouwill]

5 hours ago, NewFlyerMCI said:

I suspect that, despite all they’ve asked for, most of it is bluster and what they really want more than anything is dispatching control over a line they own

Would Metra be willing to dispatch Amtrak and freight train. I think not.  Dispatching trains is more than just routing trains through. There's track maintenance and hours of duty for train personnel  among other things.  I assure you Metra doesn't want that headache.   While Metra is only concerned about its service area, dispatchers for the railroads cover multiple trains in a large area and must communicate with the trains as well as other dispatchers who are covering adjacent areas.

I nearly became a train dispatcher for CSX years ago.

[EdwardL803]

Is there a name for the location near Western Avenue where the Milwaukee District lines cross the UP West line?

Also, what’s the history behind this junction of rail lines?

[artthouwill]

32 minutes ago, EdwardL803 said:

Is there a name for the location near Western Avenue where the Milwaukee District lines cross the UP West line?

Also, what’s the history behind this junction of rail lines?

I can only tell you that the tower is called A -2.   IT'S been around for about 80 years. 

There was some talk about building a flyover so that Milwaukee District,  NC, and Amtrak trains could flyover  the UP-W tracks.

[cplanner13]

Has commuter rail service ever been proposed for the Indiana Harbor Belt line? Is it even feasible to run passenger trains on this railroad?

[Busjack]

3 minutes ago, cplanner13 said:

Has commuter rail service ever been proposed for the Indiana Harbor Belt line? Is it even feasible to run passenger trains on this railroad?

Nope. It basically just handles freight interchange traffic.

It was proposed for the EJ&E, but with it taken over by CN, isn't going to happen.

[cplanner13]

44 minutes ago, Busjack said:

Nope. It basically just handles freight interchange traffic.

It was proposed for the EJ&E, but with it taken over by CN, isn't going to happen.

When did this EJ&E proposal occur? Were any reports created for the proposed commuter service?

[Busjack]

10 hours ago, cplanner13 said:

When did this EJ&E proposal occur? Were any reports created for the proposed commuter service?

That was the STAR Line.

UPDATE: It was discussed in this topic.

[BusHunter]

New livery on Metra Loco to honor chicago

 

https://www.trains.com/trn/news-reviews/news-wire/news-photos-new-special-metra-paint-scheme-honors-chicago/

[EdwardL803]

On 5/6/2022 at 9:17 AM, cplanner13 said:

Has commuter rail service ever been proposed for the Indiana Harbor Belt line? Is it even feasible to run passenger trains on this railroad?

The IHB line is in fact mentioned in Metra's "Inner Circumferential Commuter Rail Feasibility Study" from 1999.

https://metra.com/sites/default/files/2021-01/April 1999 - Feasibility Study - Inner Circumferential Commuter Rail .pdf

 

[Busjack]

45 minutes ago, EdwardL803 said:

The IHB line is in fact mentioned in Metra's "Inner Circumferential Commuter Rail Feasibility Study" from 1999.

https://metra.com/sites/default/files/2021-01/April 1999 - Feasibility Study - Inner Circumferential Commuter Rail .pdf

 

But if you read at page 51 of the pdf, it is totally unfeasible. And if it hasn't moved in 23 years, it isn't going to.

[EdwardL803]

23 minutes ago, Busjack said:

But if you read at page 51 of the pdf, it is totally unfeasible. And if it hasn't moved in 23 years, it isn't going to.

Yeah, I totally understand how unfeasible the idea is. I just wanted to inform cplanner13 that Metra did study/consider the idea in the past.

[dailycommuter62]

Another new paint scheme a evolution of the mp36 scheme but now no gray top or fade probably to save time on painting. Metra now has something like 5 paint schemes running around excluding the one offs

[urbanguy0508]

I noticed that the following report from 2019 mentions the idea of running service along I-294 and I-355.

https://preprod.metra.com/sites/default/files/assets/cba_final_report_20190116.pdf

Are there any plans or documents that further discuss this idea? How realistic were these proposals?

[urbanguy0508]

On 5/28/2022 at 9:46 PM, renardo870 said:

I didn't see anything updated yet on the Metra Website 

I saw the following text on the Alert section of the UP-NW page.

https://ridertools.metrarail.com/maps-schedules/train-lines/UP-NW

Metra Alert UP-NW - Minor adjustments will be made to the weekday schedule on the Union Pacific Northwest Line today, May 31, 2022

After gathering preliminary ridership data and customer feedback, Metra will implement minor changes to its weekday schedule on the Union Pacific Northwest Line beginning today Tuesday, May 31. In this newest version of the schedule, passengers who board and alight at intermediate stops will have more options for service with fewer transfers. Riders can check the new UP-NW train schedule here or on metra.com/alternate-schedules.

[NewFlyerMCI]

What’s also funny is that the operators forgot the new schedules started today, leading to what I believe was at least 2 different trains skipping Palantine and Arlington Park, if what I read on Twitter was correct ?

[Busjack]

4 hours ago, urbanguy0508 said:

I noticed that the following report from 2019 mentions the idea of running service along I-294 and I-355.

https://preprod.metra.com/sites/default/files/assets/cba_final_report_20190116.pdf

Are there any plans or documents that further discuss this idea? How realistic were these proposals?

Just consultants getting paid.

Pace has a market study for i-294. It looks as though the Tollway wants to do a Flex Lane, similar to on i-90.

Pace tried Route 655 on I-355 and got no ridership.

 

[artthouwill]

1 hour ago, Busjack said:

Just consultants getting paid.

Pace has a market study for i-294. It looks as though the Tollway wants to do a Flex Lane, similar to on i-90.

Pace tried Route 655 on I-355 and got no ridership.

 

Well at least Pace technically has routes along the cor.ridor though  service is suspended on 877, 888, and 895.  The latter may present an opportunity once the O'Hare Western Access Bypass is built and especially if a Western terminal with access is built.

[NewFlyerMCI]

1 hour ago, Busjack said:

Just consultants getting paid.

Pace has a market study for i-294. It looks as though the Tollway wants to do a Flex Lane, similar to on i-90.

Pace tried Route 655 on I-355 and got no ridership.

 

I wish I had access to the actual schedule, cause just looking at the description, no wonder it failed. These suburb-to-suburb services need to do a couple of things to actually work, especially expressway-based ones, and knowing Pace, they probably just picked locations and ran the route. For the 655 to actually have worked, it would've needed in-line stations with parking, instead of doing what I assume was use existing Metra stations (for Itasca & Downers Grove at least, no clue with Addison), and a southern anchor with either some density and/or useful transit connections. Aside from the fact that most people in Bolingbrook probably need to get downtown more than the need to get to the west/northwest suburbs, traffic on 355 isn't that bad (comparatively) or tolls that high (another assumption on my part) for a bus to compete with a car. And the other issue with that anchor point is the 1M/LM issue; taking your car to transit is one thing, needing it to leave transit is another and negates the purpose of transit. I can get elsewhere on foot, most likely via another bus or at least to the mall, from NWTC, I cannot do the same in Bolingbrook. I need our planners to spend our money on actual proposals, or at least be willing to spend those funds on developing the seed of ideas in to viable proposals.

Same thing happened in Baltimore with their Owings Mills-Towson & White Marsh-Towson buses; traffic was not so bad that the bus was actual competition, and Owings Mills and especially White Marsh basically required you to drive to the bus in the first place.

[artthouwill]

8 hours ago, urbanguy0508 said:

I noticed that the following report from 2019 mentions the idea of running service along I-294 and I-355.

https://preprod.metra.com/sites/default/files/assets/cba_final_report_20190116.pdf

Are there any plans or documents that further discuss this idea? How realistic were these proposals?

Funny that this is a topic in the Metra thread.  I suppose since the STAR Line was scrapped the only other way to cover the proposed area is with Pace buses.

I've made mention of the I-294 portion .  What I didn't mention is that rge Tri State will resemble the I 90 Tollway with Flex Lanes and Bus on Shoulder  design between 95th and O'Hare.  I don't know if said design will extend to the bypass Tollway between Franklin Park and Elk Grove Village. 

As for the I 355 corridor, I would assume a route or 2 would start at the Bolingbrook Pace Park N Ride and maybe a  route starting at the Romeoville Pace Park N i suppose there would be some sort of Park n rides built along the route but i don't know where you could put them.  There's nothing at 75th or Maple conducive to parking. I suppose a stop could be at Branding and Finley but there's no place for a Park N Ride.  There's no place along Ogden nor Roosevelt. Birth Ave, Army Trail or Lake St. Obviously the terminal would be NWTC with a stop at Woodfield Mall.  But!Busjack mentioned that the 655 failed so what would make this iteration successful?

To be honest,  based on my observations,  the 603 and 605 don't carry a lot of people,  though I wasn't looking at the height of rush hour. 

[NewFlyerMCI]

2 hours ago, artthouwill said:

But!Busjack mentioned that the 655 failed so what would make this iteration successful?

• Off-expy stops
  • The Grove shopping center, use some of that lot for a P&R
  • Lisle Metra and/or I-Pass HQ
  • Morton Arboretum on wknds
  • Yorktown Center
• In-line stops
  • 355 @ 87th or 83rd
  • 355 @ 75th
  • Maple Ave
  • BNSF
  • Butterfield Rd
  • IL-38
  • W N Ave
  • Lake St
  • Devon Ave or Biesterfield Rd

But even still, there's no guarantee that it would even still be successful, even with all the money to have in-line stops, with park & rides and hour or better frequencies

2 hours ago, artthouwill said:

To be honest,  based on my observations,  the 603 and 605 don't carry a lot of people,  though I wasn't looking at the height of rush hour.

They don't need to imo, the ridership just needs to be consistent. Buses don't have to be packed to capacity ever single time. Wouldn't be surprised if the 4 routes get combined into 1-2 routes though, one less-stop Elgin-Rosemont, one all stop Elgin-NWTC. One underrated benefit of that corridor is it opens up airport access for Elgin and communities along the corridor

[Busjack]

6 hours ago, NewFlyerMCI said:

I wish I had access to the actual schedule, cause just looking at the description, no wonder it failed. These suburb-to-suburb services need to do a couple of things to actually work, especially expressway-based ones, and knowing Pace, they probably just picked locations and ran the route. For the 655 to actually have worked, it would've needed in-line stations with parking, instead of doing what I assume was use existing Metra stations (for Itasca & Downers Grove at least, no clue with Addison)...

Basically, there were stops in Addison near Walmart, and at the Chancellory (Itasca area). Didn't use Metra stations. 

 

3 hours ago, artthouwill said:

Funny that this is a topic in the Metra thread.  I suppose since the STAR Line was scrapped the only other way to cover the proposed area is with Pace buses.

Only point here is that, like the STAR Line, if there isn't enough to interest Pace, it wouldn't interest Metra, and the only thing that interests RTA and Pace is the Tri-State corridor. As you indicated, the first step would be rebuilding 877, 888, and 895 (899 never worked), It's questionable whether the demand is still there to go to Scaumburg post-COVID, and with Sears, AT&T, and Motorola closed.

[busfan2847]

23 hours ago, NewFlyerMCI said:

I wish I had access to the actual schedule, cause just looking at the description, no wonder it failed. These suburb-to-suburb services need to do a couple of things to actually work, especially expressway-based ones, and knowing Pace, they probably just picked locations and ran the route. For the 655 to actually have worked, it would've needed in-line stations with parking, instead of doing what I assume was use existing Metra stations (for Itasca & Downers Grove at least, no clue with Addison), and a southern anchor with either some density and/or useful transit connections. Aside from the fact that most people in Bolingbrook probably need to get downtown more than the need to get to the west/northwest suburbs, traffic on 355 isn't that bad (comparatively) or tolls that high (another assumption on my part) for a bus to compete with a car. And the other issue with that anchor point is the 1M/LM issue; taking your car to transit is one thing, needing it to leave transit is another and negates the purpose of transit. I can get elsewhere on foot, most likely via another bus or at least to the mall, from NWTC, I cannot do the same in Bolingbrook. I need our planners to spend our money on actual proposals, or at least be willing to spend those funds on developing the seed of ideas in to viable proposals.

Same thing happened in Baltimore with their Owings Mills-Towson & White Marsh-Towson buses; traffic was not so bad that the bus was actual competition, and Owings Mills and especially White Marsh basically required you to drive to the bus in the first place.

Stops were

Pace P-n-R Bollingbrook (Pace 755, 855)

Branding/ Finley Downers Grove (Pace 313, 715, 834, 877, 888)

Addison Walmart P-n-R (Pace 711, 715)

The Chancellory P-n-R, Itasca (Pace 616)

NWTC (Pace 208, 554, 600, 606, 696, 699, 757)

6 journeys northbound am, southbound pm stopping at all stops

4 journeys southbound am, northbound pm non-stop from NWTC to Bollingbrook