Halsted goes all-night long.

[BUSANGEL#1]

That was the tradeoff as part of the Crowd Reduction plan, and the only one that seemed to make sense to me, i.e. it got Pace out of the local service obligation within Chicago, and relieved 2 buses for use on the beefed up 349.

Is there a Roseland business district? Busy enough to justify not having to transfer?

Yes i remember but at that time Pace was only stopping every half mile on Michigan. I agreed on getting rid of the King Drive portion, the 111 needed to be split. Roseland still has a decent business district even though its not as prominent. Its similar to Commercial Ave, or Madison/Pulaski. When I grew up in the area Pace was the only option to get from Chicago to Riverdale, South Holland, Homewood and now River Oaks Mall. People from the suburbs who wanted to transfer to east-west routes in between 130th and 95th are also screwed now. For example on my way to school many people would take the 353 to 103rd and King and transfer to 106 for Olive-Harvey. These were students who were not near the 34 Altgeld branch, but lived near the 353 138th/Leyden branch. 353 was the best option. Now the only option or transfer between 34/353 is at 130th/Indiana (which is not a good spot to transfer lol).

[TaylorTank1229]

Honestly in my hypothesis, I think another Pace bus route that I see could get overnight owl service is the #307 Harlem Ave.

[garmon757]

Honestly in my hypothesis, I think another Pace bus route that I see could get overnight owl service is the #307 Harlem Ave.

That wouldn't make any logical sense. That's like asking for #90 to run all night.

[Juniorz]

Plus, the CTA cut back N20 service from Harlem/Lake to Austin, so apparently there isn't really a business case to operate night services out to or on Harlem

[garmon757]

Plus, the CTA cut back N20 service from Harlem/Lake to Austin, so apparently there isn't really a business case to operate night services out to or on Harlem

Exactly!

[TaylorTank1229]

Exactly!

Good point. But know the fact that west of Pulaski, no other buses really have any owl service at all, nor any buses north of Lawrence either.

[renardo870]

Once upon a time the route now known as the 353 had 24 hr service. That was when the route was operated by South Suburban Safeway and the route terminated at Altgeld Gardens. After Pace took over. the CTA and Pace swapped south terminals making the 353 south terminal 138th and Indiana and the 34 S Michigan south terminal became Altgeld Gardens. It should also be noted that Pace actually ended 24 hr service before the swap. and the 34 served Altgeld when the 353 was not in service/. Until this recent announcement, that was the only 24 hour route in Chicago suburban history.

Yes I think it was called the 356 Altgeld Gardens bus.

[Busjack]

Yes I think it was called the 356 Altgeld Gardens bus.

South Suburban Safeway never had numbers on its signs, although there may have been numbers when the RTA started printing its schedules, or RTA Grummans started running. All the destination sign would say was "ROSELAND ALTGELD."

Similarly, the downtown express equivalent of the current 353 was "THORNTON via 142ND."

[i8itall4u]

South Suburban Safeway never had numbers on its signs, although there may have been numbers when the RTA started printing its schedules, or RTA Grummans started running. All the destination sign would say was "ROSELAND ALTGELD."

Similarly, the downtown express equivalent of the current 353 was "THORNTON via 142ND."

Good memory Busjack.

[jajuan]

I can buy the "people coming from work on the north side of Chicago" angle. I wonder what customer research Pace has done, though.

I also guess that if ridership doesn't materialize, they'll post a hearing for termination.

Which is why I also tied this to there maybe just being crowded buses on the 95th to Harvey portion on those trips that arrive at Harvey at 1AM and the next day ones that leave at 4AM for no immediately obvious reasons in light of Pace saying that they were making the move to alleviate crowding.

Yes i remember but at that time Pace was only stopping every half mile on Michigan. I agreed on getting rid of the King Drive portion, the 111 needed to be split. Roseland still has a decent business district even though its not as prominent. Its similar to Commercial Ave, or Madison/Pulaski. When I grew up in the area Pace was the only option to get from Chicago to Riverdale, South Holland, Homewood and now River Oaks Mall. People from the suburbs who wanted to transfer to east-west routes in between 130th and 95th are also screwed now. For example on my way to school many people would take the 353 to 103rd and King and transfer to 106 for Olive-Harvey. These were students who were not near the 34 Altgeld branch, but lived near the 353 138th/Leyden branch. 353 was the best option. Now the only option or transfer between 34/353 is at 130th/Indiana (which is not a good spot to transfer lol).

Well using your transfer of Olive Harvey example, Pace does now have all 353s pulling into the terminal at 103rd Garage for transfers to the 106. And even though in some situations it might be inconvenient but all the east west routes in that area also use the 95th/Dan Ryan terminal which the 353 does have its terminus. So Pace likely figures the nonstop operations north of 130th is still a fair tradeoff with CTA having split the 111's weird structure before December 2012 into the more streamlined 111 and separate 115.

[andrethebusman]

Which is why I also tied this to there maybe just being crowded buses on the 95th to Harvey portion on those trips that arrive at Harvey at 1AM and the next day ones that leave at 4AM for no immediately obvious reasons in light of Pace saying that they were making the move to alleviate crowding.

Well using your transfer of Olive Harvey example, Pace does now have all 353s pulling into the terminal at 103rd Garage for transfers to the 106. And even though in some situations it might be inconvenient but all the east west routes in that area also use the 95th/Dan Ryan terminal which the 353 does have its terminus. So Pace likely figures the nonstop operations north of 130th is still a fair tradeoff with CTA having split the 111's weird structure before December 2012 into the more streamlined 111 and separate 115.

111th/115th got thru-routed with the Pullman bus so you could have a one-seat ride to the L at 95th. This was because CTA went to the 3-rides-for-one-fare and people bitched that 111th-115th riders got knocked for a second fare if they were going to work in the northwest suburbs, while anybody riding any of the other routes in the area didn't.

352 is these days by far Pace's heaviest route. Basically from Harvey on north going to the L to jobs in the northwest suburbs. Remember too that 108 had owl service twice before, but basically didn't go far enough south. Even the last 352 at 1am from 95th gets a standing load, so definitely the need is there. Actually there would be good riding on a lot of all-night buses if they ran. When CTA cut off not just owl but most service after 11pm a few years back, they basically kissed off second-shift workers. If you work in Elk Grove Village (which has darn near all night service on the 223) and get off at midnight or 1am, you simply can't get home if you don't live within walking distance (defined as maybe a mile?) of the minimal owl service that still exists. This is also why you see quite a few bike riders at night. You can reasonable bicycle a whole lot further from the nearest owl bus than you can walk. Personally I think CTA would have been better off keeping all-night service where it still existed in 1995, but started "owl" headways of 30 to 60 minutes a lot earlier in the evening, say at 10pm, so you still could reduce daily platform hours but still make it possible for people to get to and from late shifts at work. Most late-night riders I don't think really care how often a bus comes as long as it does come.

[jajuan]

111th/115th got thru-routed with the Pullman bus so you could have a one-seat ride to the L at 95th. This was because CTA went to the 3-rides-for-one-fare and people bitched that 111th-115th riders got knocked for a second fare if they were going to work in the northwest suburbs, while anybody riding any of the other routes in the area didn't.

352 is these days by far Pace's heaviest route. Basically from Harvey on north going to the L to jobs in the northwest suburbs. Remember too that 108 had owl service twice before, but basically didn't go far enough south. Even the last 352 at 1am from 95th gets a standing load, so definitely the need is there. Actually there would be good riding on a lot of all-night buses if they ran. When CTA cut off not just owl but most service after 11pm a few years back, they basically kissed off second-shift workers. If you work in Elk Grove Village (which has darn near all night service on the 223) and get off at midnight or 1am, you simply can't get home if you don't live within walking distance (defined as maybe a mile?) of the minimal owl service that still exists. This is also why you see quite a few bike riders at night. You can reasonable bicycle a whole lot further from the nearest owl bus than you can walk. Personally I think CTA would have been better off keeping all-night service where it still existed in 1995, but started "owl" headways of 30 to 60 minutes a lot earlier in the evening, say at 10pm, so you still could reduce daily platform hours but still make it possible for people to get to and from late shifts at work. Most late-night riders I don't think really care how often a bus comes as long as it does come.

The earlier 30 to 60 minute headways wouldn't really work though on routes like 9, 22 or 49 which all get significant ridership still in the 10 PM hour. It may sound good on paper but it just would be hard to implement when CTA has a number of routes that are still of relatively high ridership numbers in late evening hours leading into the "owl" service hours.

[west towns]

Anyone hear how's the ridership ?

[MetroShadow]

Anyone hear how's the ridership ?

Hasn't been three months. Probably should ask next month to get a better estimate.