strictures Posted October 13, 2015 Report Share Posted October 13, 2015 This Saturday & Sunday, October 17 + 18, will be Open House Chicago, which is run by the Chicago Architecture Foundation & more importantly, co-sponsored by the CTA.I repeat, co-sponsored by the CTA this year, last year & apparently every one of the five years that Open House has been in operation.Last year after Open House, the CTA wasted a lot of money sending out unnecessary letters to a number of the holders of the RTA Ride Free cards, saying they were used too much on the two days of Open House 2014. They also intimated that the Ride Free card holders were letting others use the cards.Completely wrong, as the Ride Free cardholders were doing exactly as the CTA wanted them to do to travel between the various Open House locations -- They rode the CTA!So let's hope that someone at the CTA uses some common sense next week, when they get the statistics on how many rides each card holder used & they disregard all uses on October 17 + 18. And that the CTA's PR department doesn't go to the media claiming widespread fraudulent use of the cards, based on the increased usage of just those two days! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BusHunter Posted October 13, 2015 Report Share Posted October 13, 2015 Someone tried to use a senior ride free card on the bus last week and the operator pointed out to me that it says right on his screen that that was a senior card. I was thinking CTA could really put the kibash on the fraudulent use of those cards. Why don't they black flag those cards that were used, suspending privileges for possibly 10 days first offense, 30 days second, 3 strikes your out or give them a 6 months suspension? 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
strictures Posted October 13, 2015 Author Report Share Posted October 13, 2015 Someone tried to use a senior ride free card on the bus last week and the operator pointed out to me that it says right on his screen that that was a senior card. I was thinking CTA could really put the kibash on the fraudulent use of those cards. Why don't they black flag those cards that were used, suspending privileges for possibly 10 days first offense, 30 days second, 3 strikes your out or give them a 6 months suspension?There are two kinds of Ride Free Cards.The Senior one, for those over 65 & under the income limit & the Disabled Ride Free Card, which is for people of any age under the income limit set by the state Dept. of Aging.So are you sure it was a senior card being used by an underage person? For example, most people think I'm in my 40s, but I turned 66 today! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Busjack Posted October 13, 2015 Report Share Posted October 13, 2015 There are two kinds of Ride Free Cards.The Senior one, for those over 65 & under the income limit & the Disabled Ride Free Card, which is for people of any age under the income limit set by the state Dept. of Aging. There are also the military ones, discussed here on the CTA Tattler. Note Kevin O's question whether there is fraud, and my response that CTA was trying to get out from under the mandate.The original post brings up the issue why CTA is sponsoring anything, when it is not a money making organization. Compare it say to the Draft Kings Lounge, where they want to sucker money out of you, to CTA which loses money per passenger, and most of its passengers are not paying the $2.25 full fare, but using some sort of free, reduced, or 3/7/30 day fare card. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
garmon757 Posted October 13, 2015 Report Share Posted October 13, 2015 Hey guys, just a minor change of this topic: Change of the title.Carry on! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BusHunter Posted October 13, 2015 Report Share Posted October 13, 2015 There are two kinds of Ride Free Cards.The Senior one, for those over 65 & under the income limit & the Disabled Ride Free Card, which is for people of any age under the income limit set by the state Dept. of Aging.So are you sure it was a senior card being used by an underage person? For example, most people think I'm in my 40s, but I turned 66 today!Yeah it was fraudulent alright. The guy was younger than me, around 25-30 and the card did go through but on the touch screen clever device the operator was pointing out to us that it says he used a senior card. He asked the guy to see his ventra card, and he shows him some other card, looked like an ID, cause he knew the gig was up. So he motioned to get off the bus and the operator obliged him. The operator said to me "does he think I'm stupid, it says right there pointing to the screen he's using a senior card" That was basically the whole story. I felt like telling him about the stories I've been told about the riders on Madison, I have a good friend that told me people would tape their pictures over the old ones making their cards look legit. This was before Ventra. I don't think that matters now. The picture is ingrained in the card. You would immediately see that fraud now. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
strictures Posted October 13, 2015 Author Report Share Posted October 13, 2015 Hey guys, just a minor change of this topic: Change of the title.Carry on!Why did you change the title?I gave it that title in the hope that someone at CTA will see it & use some common sense this year & save the CTA some money, which it doesn't have & not send out letters claiming that the Ride Free cards were used fraudulently, just because for just two days a year, they get extremely heavy use! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MetroShadow Posted October 13, 2015 Report Share Posted October 13, 2015 Why did you change the title?I gave it that title in the hope that someone at CTA will see it & use some common sense this year & save the CTA some money, which it doesn't have & not send out letters claiming that the Ride Free cards were used fraudulently, just because for just two days a year, they get extremely heavy use!The title was somewhat misleading. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Busjack Posted October 13, 2015 Report Share Posted October 13, 2015 Why did you change the title?I gave it that title in the hope that someone at CTA will see it & use some common sense this year & save the CTA some money, which it doesn't have & not send out letters claiming that the Ride Free cards were used fraudulently, just because for just two days a year, they get extremely heavy use!The title was somewhat misleading. In that the thread really wasn't about the open house, but CTA complaining about pass use. The topic can now be used for other instances, like CTA complaining if someone with an RTA pass uses it to get to Christmas lights, or whatever. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
strictures Posted October 14, 2015 Author Report Share Posted October 14, 2015 In that the thread really wasn't about the open house, but CTA complaining about pass use. The topic can now be used for other instances, like CTA complaining if someone with an RTA pass uses it to get to Christmas lights, or whatever.The title wasn't misleading, as it was the use of the Ride Free cards during Open House that caused some of the incompetents at the CTA to call legitimate use of the cards, fraudulent! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sw4400 Posted October 14, 2015 Report Share Posted October 14, 2015 Anyone know the rules about school-aged kids and CTA? I was coming back from a Vet office on Saturday when a couple of people got on the #152 Addison bus @ Lane Tech. The girl(possibly 11 according to her "Mom"-she looked young to have an 11-year old daughter) put $1.10 in(Student rate), but the bus driver stopped her and said fare was $2.25 on weekends and non-school days. The driver presumed because of her height(she was tall for 11) and the fact she was wearing a Schurz High School sweatshirt that she was a High School Student. The "Mom" and him got into a shouting match, then the "Dad" got into it as well, so far as to come up to the driver and threaten to beat him up. The "Mom" cooled him down a bit, the 11-year old was crying. When the driver asked some Lane Tech kids if they knew this 11-year old girl, they said yes. Anyhow, CPD gets called and the police actually get on the driver for them coming out. One cop even said to the driver "Why do you care how much they're paying??? It's not your money!!! Just take the fare and drive the bus!!!"Who was in the wrong.... the "Family", the Operator or the CPD??? Isn't fare only $1.10 for kids during school hours, not on weekends??? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Busjack Posted October 14, 2015 Report Share Posted October 14, 2015 (edited) Anyone know the rules about school-aged kids and CTA?....The official word for students is here. 7-11 above that. Edited October 14, 2015 by Busjack Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pace831 Posted October 14, 2015 Report Share Posted October 14, 2015 Anyone know the rules about school-aged kids and CTA? I was coming back from a Vet office on Saturday when a couple of people got on the #152 Addison bus @ Lane Tech. The girl(possibly 11 according to her "Mom"-she looked young to have an 11-year old daughter) put $1.10 in(Student rate), but the bus driver stopped her and said fare was $2.25 on weekends and non-school days. The driver presumed because of her height(she was tall for 11) and the fact she was wearing a Schurz High School sweatshirt that she was a High School Student. The "Mom" and him got into a shouting match, then the "Dad" got into it as well, so far as to come up to the driver and threaten to beat him up. The "Mom" cooled him down a bit, the 11-year old was crying. When the driver asked some Lane Tech kids if they knew this 11-year old girl, they said yes. Anyhow, CPD gets called and the police actually get on the driver for them coming out. One cop even said to the driver "Why do you care how much they're paying??? It's not your money!!! Just take the fare and drive the bus!!!"Who was in the wrong.... the "Family", the Operator or the CPD??? Isn't fare only $1.10 for kids during school hours, not on weekends???Many operators don 't enforce (and possibly don't understand) the fare policy, which leads to people falsely believing they are eligible for reduced fare. It is very common for high school students outside of school hours and college students to pay reduced fare. In this case, even if the "student" was eligible, she would need a student Ventra card to get reduced fare. So the operator's explanation wasn't totally correct either.Something similar happened on a Pace bus I was on. A college student got on and paid $.85 reduced, the operator told him he needed to pay full $1.75. He refused, saying "all the other drivers let me do it". He held up the bus for a half hour over $.90 so the supervisor could drive there to yell at him. Another example of how lack of enforcement leads to conflict. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
busfan2847 Posted October 14, 2015 Report Share Posted October 14, 2015 Who was in the wrong.... the "Family", the Operator or the CPD??? Isn't fare only $1.10 for kids during school hours, not on weekends???Children 7-11 pay reduced cash fare at any time of $1.10. Children under 7 are freeThe Student Reduced Fare ($0.75) is separate from the regular Reduced Fare and is valid on school days only between 5:30am and 8:30pm. Students 20 & younger are eligible with a valid Student Ventra Card. If she was 11 the operator was wrong.Trust cta to make it complicated! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Busjack Posted October 14, 2015 Report Share Posted October 14, 2015 ...Trust cta to make it complicated!That was some Emanuel giveaway, apparently "so the kiddies can get to school." Not sure why they needed another 35 cents off. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pace831 Posted October 14, 2015 Report Share Posted October 14, 2015 Forgot to mention I was surprised the cop blamed the driver more than the passengers. The driver is asking for the fare simply because that's his job! Being a cop, you'd think he'd understand how enforcing rules works. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
garmon757 Posted October 14, 2015 Report Share Posted October 14, 2015 Oh now they want to start checking for fraudulent passes @ Fullerton Station this morning via K-9 unit while I was on my way to work. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Busjack Posted October 14, 2015 Report Share Posted October 14, 2015 Oh now they want to start checking for fraudulent passes @ Fullerton Station this morning via K-9 unit while I was on my way to work.You sure it wasn't the prior stink over being stopped for Homeland Security purposes (such as reported here)? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
garmon757 Posted October 14, 2015 Report Share Posted October 14, 2015 You sure it wasn't the prior stink over being stopped for Homeland Security purposes (such as reported here)?Oh I'm definitely sure because the same unit are always at 69th. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sw4400 Posted October 15, 2015 Report Share Posted October 15, 2015 Children 7-11 pay reduced cash fare at any time of $1.10. Children under 7 are freeThe Student Reduced Fare ($0.75) is separate from the regular Reduced Fare and is valid on school days only between 5:30am and 8:30pm. Students 20 & younger are eligible with a valid Student Ventra Card. If she was 11 the operator was wrong.Trust cta to make it complicated!This could be easily solved if states gave special I.D's to children that just had their name and DOB on them. The girl may have been 11, but seemed rather tall(but some 11 year olds can be rather tall depending on growth spurts). Maybe a Juvenile State I.D that the child keeps on them(children starting from age 8 or 9 to 17, then they get the vertical "Under 21" I.D(or Driver's License if they get a license at 18). It's just a few cents/dollars, but it's the principle that if there was a lie about the child's age, imagine what else they could lie about? You can't always take someone's word of mouth. I scanned liquor once for someone, asked for I.D, and the customer started to tell me their birthday. I told them we need an I.D. The customer told me "CVS just asks for birthday." Also, I carded someone for liquor, and someone else decided to pay for it/give money. Law says purchasers need to show I.D if they appear under 30. And this one was very unhappy that I refused when I didn't sell when they didn't have their I.D on them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Busjack Posted October 15, 2015 Report Share Posted October 15, 2015 This could be easily solved if states gave special I.D's to children that just had their name and DOB on them....The state is never involved with transit passes. The senior and disabled passes are issued by the RTA and you have to go to a designated place to get a picture taken, unless you can provide a selfie meeting requirements. You also have to wait 3-4 weeks to get the pass. (See RTA page and click through). Note also the prior comment on the military pass.Based on the CTA links I posted above, CTA issues some sort of student Ventra card, but otherwise you tell the driver. Now is CTA supposed to set up the kind of bureaucracy similar to the RTA one?Getting back to the state, the Secretary of State can't even afford to send out notices to renew your driver's license. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BusHunter Posted October 15, 2015 Report Share Posted October 15, 2015 This could be easily solved if states gave special I.D's to children that just had their name and DOB on them. The girl may have been 11, but seemed rather tall(but some 11 year olds can be rather tall depending on growth spurts). Maybe a Juvenile State I.D that the child keeps on them(children starting from age 8 or 9 to 17, then they get the vertical "Under 21" I.D(or Driver's License if they get a license at 18). It's just a few cents/dollars, but it's the principle that if there was a lie about the child's age, imagine what else they could lie about? You can't always take someone's word of mouth. I scanned liquor once for someone, asked for I.D, and the customer started to tell me their birthday. I told them we need an I.D. The customer told me "CVS just asks for birthday." Also, I carded someone for liquor, and someone else decided to pay for it/give money. Law says purchasers need to show I.D if they appear under 30. And this one was very unhappy that I refused when I didn't sell when they didn't have their I.D on them.You do make a valid point that there needs to be some verification of age. Maybe if now Ventra users are using the same card over and over and can be virtually identified, then the ventra reader should be programmed with a person's age, in case the operator would like to verify or make an inquiry. it would stop alot of the arguments. Depending on what garage you work for depends how the management is. I've heard Fg is easier than NP. A Np operator once made me pay twice for a fare because he didn't see me swipe the card. It didn't matter to me, i was on a pass and told him I could pay a million times, which we both laughed at that. He told me that NP management took him in the office and nabbed him on someone walking up to the farebox and not paying, so they are watching the operators, you can't just let people ride for free. It's your job to maintain this. It's like someone coming into Jewel and you say it's free today. I bet you wouldn't have a job too long. I don't know what was up with these cops. They obviously didn't care if that operator was called into the office or not or even lost his job or got suspended. Better yet the unruliness of the passenger threatening the operator over 50 cents to a dollar? I don't know people just take things too far. I heard a story on the Cicero bus down around Washington about a guy who lost his life over $20. The man used someone's cell phone and ran up this bill and he was murdered over it. I think it was his brothers phone or a friend. But now that young man has no future and his attacker has no future. Senseless. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Busjack Posted October 15, 2015 Report Share Posted October 15, 2015 You do make a valid point that there needs to be some verification of age. Maybe if now Ventra users are using the same card over and over and can be virtually identified, then the ventra reader should be programmed with a person's age, in case the operator would like to verify or make an inquiry. it would stop alot of the arguments. ...So what happens when mommy tells the driver to take 2 kids fares off her Ventra card? Or says that a six year old with secondary characteristics of puberty is entitled to a free ride? Or someone just buys a card at a vending machine? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BusHunter Posted October 15, 2015 Report Share Posted October 15, 2015 So what happens when mommy tells the driver to take 2 kids fares off her Ventra card? Or says that a six year old with secondary characteristics of puberty is entitled to a free ride? Or someone just buys a card at a vending machine?Cards would need to be registered before they could be used. They could always start a new rule, that riders without verification cannot ride, but you would have to admit that that scenario is 5 percent of riders, so while you wouldn't eliminate all the arguments eliminating 95 percent of them is not bad. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Busjack Posted October 15, 2015 Report Share Posted October 15, 2015 Cards would need to be registered before they could be used. They could always start a new rule, that riders without verification cannot ride, but you would have to admit that that scenario is 5 percent of riders, so while you wouldn't eliminate all the arguments eliminating 95 percent of them is not bad. Since you are throwing out numbers, the issue is that CPS and some private schools administer the Student Pass program (web page) by issuing the cards, and the system seems to know when they are valid for student, half, or full fares. I don't know if sw's example where mommy was asked to pay a cash fare is because the child was not enrolled in a participating school, but it seems like an outlier. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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