June 19 run pick

[andrethebusman]

Only change coming in June of the ones announced recently is resuming Lincoln service to Fullerton/Halsted. All others (31st, thru 95th, 4 to 115th, 26 midday) will be in September. 11 will be every 20 minutes, with six buses. The two extra buses for midday previously pulled in off 49B after the AM rush.

[sw4400]

25 minutes ago, andrethebusman said:

Only change coming in June of the ones announced recently is resuming Lincoln service to Fullerton/Halsted. All others (31st, thru 95th, 4 to 115th, 26 midday) will be in September. 11 will be every 20 minutes, with six buses. The two extra buses for midday previously pulled in off 49B after the AM rush.

How come they're ranting about it resuming on #11 during September, not June? I see what it says in the Tribune link, but this poster is going on about it beginning in the fall.... either he misread the post(which looks like a possibility), or the Tribune made a typo and #11 Lincoln isn't resuming until September.

 

[artthouwill]

21 minutes ago, andrethebusman said:

Only change coming in June of the ones announced recently is resuming Lincoln service to Fullerton/Halsted. All others (31st, thru 95th, 4 to 115th, 26 midday) will be in September. 11 will be every 20 minutes, with six buses. The two extra buses for midday previously pulled in off 49B after the AM rush.

So I take it that the 11 won't be reunited with the 37 as one continuous route.

[Sam92]

5 minutes ago, artthouwill said:

So I take it that the 11 won't be reunited with the 37 as one continuous route.

I personally think it will eventually and that that is the ultimate plan it's just they don't have the funds at the moment so whatever funds they do what they are are to tap into the extra income the service provides and slowly expand it from there as the ridership help the expansions pay themselves off. I give this new president one thing even though he knows money is tight, he still tries to give expansion a try at the same time with the little they do have

[jajuan]

13 hours ago, artthouwill said:

So I take it that the 11 won't be reunited with the 37 as one continuous route.

No it's not. I'm not so sure about Sam's thought that that is their plan because of their tailoring the expansion mostly toward the seniors' projected riding patterns since they made the most noise for the return. When both were still one route, ridership coming back north didn't pick as much until passing the Lincoln Park neighborhood and the Red Line. Available funds played into it for sure since I'm not sure it can be said seniors just sit in the house on weekends. I will agree though that Carter deserves praise for not being afraid to at least test whether expansions and restorations are warranted because community demographics do change over time. If service is taken back because ridership didn't appear or pan out, at least they have a more current record than the 4-20 year range we've seen original cuts made that we've seen recent restorations tested out. Weekend service on the 39 is a good example of this.

[Busjack]

7 hours ago, sw4400 said:

How come they're ranting about it resuming on #11 during September, not June?

In short, you trust someone on rectumbook who plagiarizes the Tribune but doesn't even read what he is using.

Especially, when the CTA site, cited in the 11-31 topic says "#11 pilot service is expected to begin Monday, June 20..."

Finally, CTA has never announced more than 180 day experiments, although it has renewed some.

[Busjack]

8 hours ago, andrethebusman said:

The two extra buses for midday previously pulled in off 49B after the AM rush.

Which seems another reason why it starts at 10 a.m.

[BusHunter]

1 hour ago, Busjack said:

Which seems another reason why it starts at 10 a.m.

That's going to take more than 2 buses.

[jajuan]

4 hours ago, BusHunter said:

That's going to take more than 2 buses.

Well Andre did say the total number of buses would six on a 20 minute headway. The two reference is from the explanation of where the extras over the current number used will be coming from.

[andrethebusman]

One small item also - 170-UofC/Midway service ends 5/30 account UofC subsidy ends. This route has been basically useless since 2 was extended to 60th/Cottage on the "non-rush" direction, and UofC finally noticed.

[jajuan]

10 hours ago, andrethebusman said:

One small item also - 170-UofC/Midway service ends 5/30 account UofC subsidy ends. This route has been basically useless since 2 was extended to 60th/Cottage on the "non-rush" direction, and UofC finally noticed.

So CTA's U of C routes drops down to three: 171, 172 and 192. 

[andrethebusman]

192 is considered in a separate category from 171 and 172. 192 is considered a "regular route" that UofC would have to subsidize if riding fell below a certain point (which it hasn't in a long, long, time), while 171 and 172 are part of UofC's Campus Shuttle system, essentially contracted to CTA, and as such liable to cancellation, which is why 170 goes away three weeks before the next run pick.

[jajuan]

11 hours ago, andrethebusman said:

192 is considered in a separate category from 171 and 172. 192 is considered a "regular route" that UofC would have to subsidize if riding fell below a certain point (which it hasn't in a long, long, time), while 171 and 172 are part of UofC's Campus Shuttle system, essentially contracted to CTA, and as such liable to cancellation, which is why 170 goes away three weeks before the next run pick.

192 may be operated as a "regular" route under that technicality, but CTA still considered it a contracted route to be eliminated with the rest if University of Chicago didn't agree with the new rate increase CTA imposed under the DeCrowd plan Claypool got the CTA Board to rubber stamp and implement three and a half years ago. The route system maps also don't make that distinction you illuminated. They lump 192 together with 170, 171 and 172 in the same category, "U of C/Hyde Park" routes. 

[Busjack]

12 hours ago, andrethebusman said:

192 is considered in a separate category from 171 and 172. 192 is considered a "regular route" that UofC would have to subsidize if riding fell below a certain point (which it hasn't in a long, long, time), while 171 and 172 are part of UofC's Campus Shuttle system, essentially contracted to CTA, and as such liable to cancellation, which is why 170 goes away three weeks before the next run pick.

 

33 minutes ago, jajuan said:

192 may be operated as a "regular" route under that technicality, but CTA still considered it a contracted route to be eliminated with the rest if University of Chicago didn't agree with the new rate increase CTA imposed under the DeCrowd plan Claypool got the CTA Board to rubber stamp and implement three and a half years ago. The route system maps also don't make that distinction you illuminated. They lump 192 together with 170, 171 and 172 in the same category, "U of C/Hyde Park" routes. 

The U of C's site supports jajuan's conclusion: "The three other bus routes the CTA operates as part of its agreement with the University – the 171, 172, and 192 – will remain in service and will not be impacted by this change." The only difference is that the U of C's main CTA page says that rides on 171 and 172 are free with university ID.

Thus, the only distinction that can be drawn is that 192 collects enough fares that it doesn't need to be subsidized. But it is still subject to the contract.

Also, it appears that U of C simply replaced 170 with a UGo Shuttle.

 

[andrethebusman]

UofC has an extensive route system run by First Student. Only thing is that they only use relatively small buses, biggest being the ex-Hammond cutaways that were over there after Hammond shut down. Lot of the fleet appears to be about 20 passengers at most. Thus, they don't have anything big enough to successfully run 171 and 172, especially at class breaks. Changing 170 to a First Student operation has got to be a major, major cost reduction. Most of the drivers are students, working part time, for maybe 12 dollars an hour?

[maths22]

8 hours ago, andrethebusman said:

UofC has an extensive route system run by First Student. Only thing is that they only use relatively small buses, biggest being the ex-Hammond cutaways that were over there after Hammond shut down. Lot of the fleet appears to be about 20 passengers at most. Thus, they don't have anything big enough to successfully run 171 and 172, especially at class breaks. Changing 170 to a First Student operation has got to be a major, major cost reduction. Most of the drivers are students, working part time, for maybe 12 dollars an hour?

The UGo shuttle program is actually operated by First Transit (same parent company as First Student).  I believe some of our larger shuttles are actually closer to 30 people.  Also, I'm pretty sure that most of the drivers are not students, although I'm not 100% certain on that.  Also, the shuttle contract is/was up for renewal, and apparently we will be getting new buses.  My understanding is that the University intends to end up with more transit-oriented buses (we were shown a silhouette of what looked like an ElDorado bus), but that seemed not to be definitive.

[maths22]

18 hours ago, Busjack said:

 

The U of C's site supports jajuan's conclusion: "The three other bus routes the CTA operates as part of its agreement with the University – the 171, 172, and 192 – will remain in service and will not be impacted by this change." The only difference is that the U of C's main CTA page says that rides on 171 and 172 are free with university ID.

Thus, the only distinction that can be drawn is that 192 collects enough fares that it doesn't need to be subsidized. But it is still subject to the contract.

Also, it appears that U of C simply replaced 170 with a UGo Shuttle.

 

The text of the University agreement can be found here (http://www.transitchicago.com/assets/1/ordinances/013-060.pdf), which indicates that the 192 is technically subsidized by the University.  However, since I understand that all fares collected on the routes go to the University (or equivalently, reduce its subsidy), the 192 has much less/no cost to the University than the other routes.

[Busjack]

41 minutes ago, maths22 said:

The text of the University agreement can be found here (http://www.transitchicago.com/assets/1/ordinances/013-060.pdf),

That actually isn't the text of the agreement, but the ordinance authorizing the agreement. Note, it says "in conformance with the agreement attached as Exhibit A hereto" but, as usual, nothing is attached.*

"Reduce its subsidy" is probably correct, as I doubt that CTA counts the Ventra taps and converts them to $1.14 cash each.

 

____________

*Also: "These changes shall be implemented when an executed Agreement between the Authority and the University of Chicago is attained and when the necessary operating arrangements have been completed."

[Busjack]

9 hours ago, andrethebusman said:

Lot of the fleet appears to be about 20 passengers at most. Thus, they don't have anything big enough to successfully run 171 and 172, especially at class breaks.

U of C's Request a Charter Bus page says "If you are interested in chartering a UGo shuttle, search "First Transit" as the vendor in BuySite. If you want to charter a school bus, search "First Student" as the vendor. " So, I'm sure First Group could come up with a 70 passenger school bus if necessary, similar to when it was required to provide accessible school buses on the Naperville Pace contract about 2000. Also, as maths22 indicates, they could bring in real transit equipment, again similar to what they or a predecessor also did in DuPage County at one time.

This is similar to art saying "How can Chicago Doubledecker and Trolley" run Pace express routes, when they apparently ran 855 with Coach USA equipment even though Keeshin was no longer doing charters, because Coach USA is Coach USA. Same with First Group.

[sht6131]

Notice on the CTA Bus Route Tracker Sn --- for some Chicago 66 AM Run Numbers. I know what SR is but what is SN?

[Busjack]

58 minutes ago, sht6131 said:

Notice on the CTA Bus Route Tracker Sn --- for some Chicago 66 AM Run Numbers. I know what SR is but what is SN?

Must be something underground near Navy Pier.

[Sam92]

1 hour ago, sht6131 said:

Notice on the CTA Bus Route Tracker Sn --- for some Chicago 66 AM Run Numbers. I know what SR is but what is SN?

 

42 minutes ago, Busjack said:

Must be something underground near Navy Pier.

Nah they just leave a trail 8-9 buses at Navy Pier terminal itself along the path leading into it. 

SR- equals stored underground on middle randolph

SN- run filled by a bus left at navy pier between rush

SH- stored at hickory between rush

SS - run is filled by a bus that either is to go to south shops after it's trips or just came from. 

 

 

[sht6131]

Wow that`s plenty of info I did not know and I thought SR meant school run. Thanks all.

[artthouwill]

1 hour ago, Sam92 said:

 

Nah they just leave a trail 8-9 buses at Navy Pier terminal itself along the path leading into it. 

SR- equals stored underground on middle randolph

SN- run filled by a bus left at navy pier between rush

SH- stored at hickory between rush

SS - run is filled by a bus that either is to go to south shops after it's trips or just came from. 

 

 

Would you say if all of SN buses are from C?  Likewise would all of the SR buses are from 77th?  It would seem that if all of the stored buses in one area are from one garage, one vehicle can run all 8 or si drivers  to and from that one garage.

[Busjack]

6 hours ago, artthouwill said:

Would you say if all of SN buses are from C?  Likewise would all of the SR buses are from 77th?  It would seem that if all of the stored buses in one area are from one garage, one vehicle can run all 8 or si drivers  to and from that one garage.

That might  be the result, but only a function  of the route being terminated, such as 8 at North Branch and 66 at Navy Pier.