Pace Bus Moves

[Erin Mishkin Jr.]

13 hours ago, rotjohns said:

And given that #6258 and #6263 are not on any NS routes at the moment, they might be transitioning up there too.  Those two should be the last Nabis remaining.

On the live map, I just spotted 6258 on the 626.

[Busjack]

On 11/14/2017 at 10:33 AM, busfan2847 said:

2696 has turned up at River

WebWatch confirmation of 2696 (finally)

[garmon757]

#6263 has made its way to West. #6255 and #6258 remain the same at North Shore. Does anybody knows if #6256 is still in service?

[Erin Mishkin Jr.]

6261 has moved to West and is currently operating on the 318.

[BusHunter]

So on Andre's list South 2 is the south  junkyard? If so then there are no Ravinia Orions?

[busfan2847]

6258 still out on the 626 this morning

[Busjack]

3 minutes ago, BusHunter said:

So on Andre's list South 2 is the south  junkyard? If so then there are no Ravinia Orions?

Not sure what it denotes, as no other Orions are on it, but there hasn't been a recent advertisement for a sell off of retired buses.There may be a chance that South Holland is too full of new buses to store them. Or there may be a chance that only NABIs will be used this year.

[BusHunter]

4 hours ago, Busjack said:

Not sure what it denotes, as no other Orions are on it, but there hasn't been a recent advertisement for a sell off of retired buses.There may be a chance that South Holland is too full of new buses to store them. Or there may be a chance that only NABIs will be used this year.

I think I did see 6154 when I was out at the south junkyard lot.

[garmon757]

Well well #6237 is turning back the clock by coming back to West. Just spotted it on 318. 

[rotjohns]

2 hours ago, garmon757 said:

Well well #6237 is turning back the clock by coming back to West. Just spotted it on 318. 

Wasn't that a North bus?

I think I may see what's happening here.  Pace's priority is to get rid of the 6600s, wherever they are (N & W).  If any 6162s are in good shape at North, they must be sending them to West to eliminate any 6600s over there.  When I checked Webwatch yesterday morning at North, there's a lot of 6600s that were NOT running that are currently on the latest roster and a lot of  El Dorados running instead.  Most of the 6162s up there were running.  Once the 6600s are gone, then Pace's next priority will be the last of the 6162s and then start focusing on the blue Nabis next.  Sending them all to West makes it easy to replace them all at once like the Orions and gives the 6300s over there some rest, especially on the weekends.

[Busjack]

1 hour ago, rotjohns said:

Once the 6600s are gone, then Pace's next priority will be the last of the 6162s and then start focusing on the blue Nabis next. 

The math in my head is that once NS ended, there were 50 buses within the range (6730-6779)  seen by @Pace831. Rough count is that it would take about 46 to 49 buses to take out white NABIs at North and 25 to take them out of West. So there aren't enough yet.

I still have a feeling that something else has to happen, like the 2016 budget for small buses (seems like that idea died, either as impractical, or there wasn't the operating surplus predicted then, and the 17000s are already being assigned to paratransit contractors on the inventory) or N is going to get some 30 foot buses from either the existing pool or out of the 2018 budget. But it seems clear:

• Pace doesn't have any use for a 35' bus, and really hasn't since 2006, when it first used 2600s to move 6600s.
• The 6162s are at W until something other than these 50 buses is delivered.

[rotjohns]

42 minutes ago, Busjack said:

The math in my head is that once NS ended, there were 50 buses (6730-6779) seen by @Pace831. Rough count is that it would take about 46 to 49 buses to take out white NABIs at North and 25 to take them out of West. So there aren't enough yet.

I still have a feeling that something else has to happen, like the 2016 budget for small buses (seems like that idea died, either as impractical, or there wasn't the operating surplus predicted then, and the 17000s are already being assigned to paratransit contractors on the inventory) or N is going to get some 30 foot buses from either the existing pool or out of the 2018 budget. But it seems clear:

• Pace doesn't have any use for a 35' bus, and really hasn't since 2006, when it first used 2600s to move 6600s.
• The 6162s are at W until something other than these 50 buses is delivered.

I assume that count is for all of the Nabis at North.  I was originally curious as to why 6237 would be shipped west as I though they'd keep all of the 40 footers at North and use them mainly for school routes and spares once the 6600s were gone.  But maybe Pace has a plan that we're not knowing.  It is certainly conceivable that N could get some 30 footers as I'm sure many routes don't need 40 footers.  Plus with FV supposably having 6701-6702, they could ship 2 30 footers away at some point, maybe even more.  

Speaking of which, I'm surprised those 2 buses didn't end up in Joliet.  One route that could surely use 40 footers is the #834.  It's always packed, sometimes standing room only during rush hour.  I'm sure the 501 and 507 probably could use them too, they used to be mostly 40 footers until the Eldos got there, but I haven't been that way lately to see how ridership is now.  

[Pace831]

59 minutes ago, rotjohns said:

Speaking of which, I'm surprised those 2 buses didn't end up in Joliet.  One route that could surely use 40 footers is the #834.  It's always packed, sometimes standing room only during rush hour.  I'm sure the 501 and 507 probably could use them too, they used to be mostly 40 footers until the Eldos got there, but I haven't been that way lately to see how ridership is now.  

It wouldn't seem to make sense for 6701-02 to be used exclusively for school runs. Why give them two brand new buses to only be used for a few short trips a day? That's why I didn't want to bet on that possibility. They could be for 530, which seems to be the busiest route there. I don't know how crowded certain trips get.

I agree that a few 35' or 40' buses would help in Joliet. I say 35' because the lack of a rear door and standing room on a 30' can really slow down the trip once all the seats are full. When I mentioned this before, the response was that if Pace thought bigger buses were needed in Joliet, they would have kept some there. However, I would argue that the probable reason is the timing of crowded trips would make it too difficult to schedule runs without having a surplus of larger buses, so 40' buses can be more effectively used at other divisions. They might also be facing garage capacity issues with so many MCIs there now.

As far as specific routes/times they might be needed, you are correct about 834, but most of the heavy ridership is toward the north end of the route. 501 midday JJC trips are heavy, with two trips using two 30' buses. 507 can still get a decent crowd throughout the day as well. I haven't checked, but 504 during Amazon shift changes might be busy, because 361 always looks full.

[Busjack]

5 hours ago, Pace831 said:

It wouldn't seem to make sense for 6701-02 to be used exclusively for school runs.

It may also be a goof, like last's year's inventory saying 6573-4 were going to SW, although I'm not sure why NS is still running 2 NABIs and has 4 on the inventory.

5 hours ago, Pace831 said:

However, I would argue that the probable reason is the timing of crowded trips would make it too difficult to schedule runs without having a surplus of larger buses, so 40' buses can be more effectively used at other divisions

That gets me in another direction, based on having been at the Waukegan Sheridan Road transfer point when a bunch of students would get off and transfer to a 35 foot Route 571 and pack it. At first I wondered why they didn't just change one of the 40 ft buses in the line to 571, but it has since dawned on me that the way buses are interlined is too complicated to just change the route on in midrun.

For that reason, one could assume that a route such as 570 or 574 could use a smaller bus, but they are interlined with 565 and 572.

Is there a similar situation in Joliet?

 

[Pace831]

43 minutes ago, Busjack said:

Is there a similar situation in Joliet?

There is interlining of 501 and 509 on the trips leaving downtown at 8:10 AM, then every two hours until 6:10 PM. 501 is busy, 509 is not. The 9:10 AM and 10:10 AM departures of 501 use two buses, and other midday trips are crowded.

507 uses one bus throughout the day. A second bus comes out during rush hours.

834 runs mostly consist of only one round trip before returning to the garage, due to the length of the route.

I can think of service revisions that would help alleviate crowding on 501 and 507, but I'm not sure what can be done about 834 other than larger or more frequent buses.

[Busjack]

15 hours ago, Pace831 said:

I can think of service revisions that would help alleviate crowding on 501 and 507, but I'm not sure what can be done about 834 other than larger or more frequent buses.

Yes, but you commented on that when the 2742s were first assigned. However, Pace didn't have any qualms about getting rid of the NABIs.

[Pace831]

4 hours ago, Busjack said:

Yes, but you commented on that when the 2742s were first assigned. However, Pace didn't have any qualms about getting rid of the NABIs.

I only brought it up in response to @rotjohns saying "I'm surprised Joliet didn't get 6701-02 instead of FV", and you asking if there was interlining. I am not saying moving the NABIs out was a bad decision, as you seem to be implying. It's better to have a handful of crowded trips than run bigger buses that aren't full most of the time, especially when those buses could be better utilized elsewhere.

[Busjack]

7 hours ago, Pace831 said:

I only brought it up in response to @rotjohns saying

Come to think of it, it may have been @rotjohns. But it was noted back then.

[rotjohns]

On 1/20/2018 at 4:25 PM, Busjack said:

That gets me in another direction, based on having been at the Waukegan Sheridan Road transfer point when a bunch of students would get off and transfer to a 35 foot Route 571 and pack it. At first I wondered why they didn't just change one of the 40 ft buses in the line to 571, but it has since dawned on me that the way buses are interlined is too complicated to just change the route on in midrun.

For that reason, one could assume that a route such as 570 or 574 could use a smaller bus, but they are interlined with 565 and 572.

This is probably why Pace just went ahead and decided to put 40 footers at North and be done with it, so that they don't deal with any interline issues with smaller vs. bigger buses.  And it goes back to why back doors for buses are needed except for lower running routes.  

Personally, although I do think 30 footers have places on certain routes outside of the feeders, I'm thinking that the 30 footers where they are currently placed are going to stay there until they retire, which may explain why the "small buses" theory is apparently dead because they're not needed.  I originally thought many of them would head to N, but now that I see what's going on, I can't see any of them moving.  

[rotjohns]

On 1/20/2018 at 11:13 AM, Pace831 said:

It wouldn't seem to make sense for 6701-02 to be used exclusively for school runs. Why give them two brand new buses to only be used for a few short trips a day? That's why I didn't want to bet on that possibility. They could be for 530, which seems to be the busiest route there. I don't know how crowded certain trips get.

So far, no sign of them on 530 (anywhere else for that matter).  714 sees some traffic with COD students so I could see them there too.  

[Busjack]

13 minutes ago, rotjohns said:

So far, no sign of them on 530 (anywhere else for that matter).  714 sees some traffic with COD students so I could see them there too.  

Maybe, but it would have had to recover from the times when Pace threatened to cut it. Also, it's probably interlined with 530.

[Busjack]

37 minutes ago, rotjohns said:

which may explain why the "small buses" theory is apparently dead because they're not needed.

I was thinking more along the lines of they didn't work in Downers Grove (for whatever reason, DG got 2600s, and I really can't see passengers heading down the high steps in Naperville or Lisle).

But, as far as "needed," shifts after receiving the small buses seemed necessary to replace the 6262s; now I don't see a path to doing that, unless this order goes up into the 6850s or so, which is possible, I suppose.

[rotjohns]

21 hours ago, Busjack said:

Maybe, but it would have had to recover from the times when Pace threatened to cut it. Also, it's probably interlined with 530.

It is.  In fact, because routes 530, 714, and 722 all go to Naperville Metra, they usually interline with each other, especially in the early afternoon as that's usually when there's a shift change with drivers. 

[garmon757]

#6227 is back at West. 

[rotjohns]

14 hours ago, garmon757 said:

#6227 is back at West. 

Wow, that was fast.  It was just at North on Monday.