2018 CTA budget

[Busjack]

Actually, there isn't one yet, and like in the Claypool years, it's overdue, but this Tribune article indicates what's really happening.Seems like CTA can't bite the bullet on fare increases, although state transportation funding is down and the state Dept. of Revenue is taking a 2% collection fee out of retailers' occupation taxes, including the RTA's.

This Sun-Times article also indicates that there is some aldermanic resistance to a fee hike on ride haling to give the money to CTA, but it doesn't appear in retrospect that that's what's holding up the budget.

But the RTA seems to know what the CTA is attempting to pull off.

[artthouwill]

4 hours ago, Busjack said:

Actually, there isn't one yet, and like in the Claypool years, it's overdue, but this Tribune article indicates what's really happening.Seems like CTA can't bite the bullet on fare increases, although state transportation funding is down and the state Dept. of Revenue is taking a 2% collection fee out of retailers' occupation taxes, including the RTA's.

This Sun-Times article also indicates that there is some aldermanic resistance to a fee hike on ride haling to give the money to CTA, but it doesn't appear in retrospect that that's what's holding up the budget.

But the RTA seems to know what the CTA is attempting to pull off.

Rahm is trying to keep his south side improvements intact for the 2019 mayoral race.

[Busjack]

29 minutes ago, artthouwill said:

Rahm is trying to keep his south side improvements intact for the 2019 mayoral race.

Could be, but as the article somewhat reminds us, he ran on fare b.s. before, when he claimed to have held the line on fares, but he later said he was only referring to the $2.25 base fare, and not all the passes that were raised then.

I take it what you are implying is that if the choice is fare hikes or service cuts, he doesn't want the 4 and 95 extensions cut.However, the real question is whether he will allow a 50 cent fare hike to be imposed now so that it is forgotten by 2019. That's standard political theory around here, but it sure didn't work for Toni Preckwinkle, with the beverage tax being rammed through with a promise of no sales or property tax hikes until 2020.

Anyway, under his administration, service cuts have been pretty much restricted to the north and northwest side.

[artthouwill]

26 minutes ago, Busjack said:

Could be, but as the article somewhat reminds us, he ran on fare b.s. before, when he claimed to have held the line on fares, but he later said he was only referring to the $2.25 base fare, and not all the passes that were raised then.

I take it what you are implying is that if the choice is fare hikes or service cuts, he doesn't want the 4 and 95 extensions cut.However, the real question is whether he will allow a 50 cent fare hike to be imposed now so that it is forgotten by 2019. That's standard political theory around here, but it sure didn't work for Toni Preckwinkle, with the beverage tax being rammed through with a promise of no sales or property tax hikes until 2020.

Anyway, under his administration, service cuts have been pretty much restricted to the north and northwest side.

At least with the fare hike , and to some extent if RTA doesn't approve a budget without (or forces) service cuts, he can blame the State and Bruce Rauner for funding cuts. It's political gamesmanship. The South and West Sides are his political bases and he needs them to have a real chance to stay in office.

[Sam92]

8 hours ago, artthouwill said:

At least with the fare hike , and to some extent if RTA doesn't approve a budget without (or forces) service cuts, he can blame the State and Bruce Rauner for funding cuts. It's political gamesmanship. The South and West Sides are his political bases and he needs them to have a real chance to stay in office.

We still not voting for him this time ??

[artthouwill]

1 hour ago, Sam92 said:

We still not voting for him this time ??

Who can beat him?  Preckwinkle killed her chance with the soda tax.  Will Chewy run again?  Ricardo Munoz?  Dorothy Brown?  Forest Claypool?  Doesn't seem to be any candidates strong enough to challenge him. But he has to play his cards right with the CTA budget as to not give anyone any momentum.

[Busjack]

2 hours ago, artthouwill said:

Who can beat him?  Preckwinkle killed her chance with the soda tax.  Will Chewy run again?  Ricardo Munoz?  Dorothy Brown?  Forest Claypool?  Doesn't seem to be any candidates strong enough to challenge him. But he has to play his cards right with the CTA budget as to not give anyone any momentum.

You seem mired in past failures. It's obvious that the police troubles have eroded his south side base, and CTU or its ilk will find a more viable candidate. Don't forget, the President isn't Mitt Romney.

[Busjack]

Trying to avoid spraying to all fields, and especially since this speaks to CTA "governance"

17 minutes ago, garmon757 said:

So RTA is pressuring Carter to come up with a budget along with a fare hike or be doomed!

The letter is in the second link. 

http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/local/breaking/ct-met-cta-fares-rta-20171114-story.html

http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/columnists/wisniewski/ct-rta-cta-letter-20171114-htmlstory.html

Interesting that the first clause in the letter is "In the preliminary 2018 operating budget submitted to the RTA on October 23rd." In short, by the deadline by which Pace and Metra published their preliminary budgets* and the boards ordered public hearings on them, CTA also had a preliminary budget it submitted to the RTA but did not publish it.

The letter does confirm how the RTA knew what CTA was pulling off. Maybe it should be like its siblings and play by the rules.

___________

*Also note the statement "In order to maintain desired service levels, Metra and Pace have both submitted proposed 2018 budgets which contain necessary fare increases to offset their funding reductions and balance with their required expense levels." (emphasis added)

[BusHunter]

A stronger black or Hispanic candidate can beat him easily. But Toni preckwinkle's political career is probably over.

[garmon757]

15 minutes ago, Busjack said:

Trying to avoid spraying to all fields, and especially since this speaks to CTA "governance"

Interesting that the first clause in the letter is "In the preliminary 2018 operating budget submitted to the RTA on October 23rd." In short, by the deadline by which Pace and Metra published their preliminary budgets* and the boards ordered public hearings on them, CTA also had a preliminary budget it submitted to the RTA but did not publish it.

The letter does confirm how the RTA knew what CTA was pulling off. Maybe it should be like its siblings and play by the rules.

___________

*Also note the statement "In order to maintain desired service levels, Metra and Pace have both submitted proposed 2018 budgets which contain necessary fare increases to offset their funding reductions and balance with their required expense levels." (emphasis added)

Notice how the Tribune said it was rare for RTA to send a letter to CTA. It makes me wonder if Carter has something up his sleeve in countering RTA demand because of the fact that CTA hasn't increase fares excluding passes in almost a decade. Two can play the same game eh? Just for kicks: someone in the comment section (in the Tribune) of that article said that RTA or CTA should stop stealing and mismanaging. 

[Busjack]

3 minutes ago, garmon757 said:

It makes me wonder if Carter has something up his sleeve in countering RTA demand

Predictably, the Sun-Times, while also publishing the letter, has a much more political slant on it, especially on what Emanuel is calculating (which gets @artthouwill back on topic).

Also, I don't buy Steele's assertion that this is an "unprecedented challenge." We were told that 2008 and 2010 were much worse.

[garmon757]

12 minutes ago, Busjack said:

Also, I don't buy Steele's assertion that this is an "unprecedented challenge." We were told that 2008 and 2010 were much worse.

In which I don't even bother jumping into that nonsense. If only politics can stay on it's course but it doesn't in Chicago nor this state. 

[Busjack]

In afternoon news, the Sun-Times has Emanuel indicating support for fare hikes, but not service cuts,citing, as @artthouwill did, not going back on the south side expansions.

[BusHunter]

3 hours ago, Busjack said:

In afternoon news, the Sun-Times has Emanuel indicating support for fare hikes, but not service cuts,citing, as @artthouwill did, not going back on the south side expansions.

Yeah but how can there not be a service cut #54A is not getting cut next year? Fare hikes would indicate the budget is short yet again. All these old #6400's driving around is probably not helping the budget. Don't know why else the budget would be short unless ridership went down. The politicos have been introducing new legislation to help fund transit so I don't know why they would be short.

[Busjack]

50 minutes ago, BusHunter said:

Yeah but how can there not be a service cut #54A is not getting cut next year?

No, its being given to Pace. It isn't being cut due to the budget, as like what happened in 2010.

51 minutes ago, BusHunter said:

Don't know why else the budget would be short

Obviously you didn't read any of the linked articles. The RTA is short because sales tax receipts are down, the state is taking 2% of them as a collection fee, and state transportation appropriations are down.

[BusHunter]

2 hours ago, Busjack said:

No, its being given to Pace. It isn't being cut due to the budget, as like what happened in 2010.

Obviously you didn't read any of the linked articles. The RTA is short because sales tax receipts are down, the state is taking 2% of them as a collection fee, and state transportation appropriations are down.

And is Pace sending a bus up Cicero from Irving pk blue line? No, so that sounds like a service cut to me if certain communities are not served. 

 

[Busjack]

11 hours ago, BusHunter said:

And is Pace sending a bus up Cicero from Irving pk blue line? No, so that sounds like a service cut to me if certain communities are not served. 

 

Apparently, but that has nothing to do with this. Some consultant must have figured there was no passenger count between Montrose and Foster. Most of that faces a railroad berm and the Edens Expressway. Similarly, that consultant must have figured out that the next generation of little old ladies wasn't riding 210.

As you said way back when the NS Coordination Project was announced, it's a service cut. It wasn't provoked by the 2018 budget, but a 2016 plan under which CTA rightfully decided it should be cutting back overlap with Pace. In turn, Pace consultants decided to run 215 and Route C (621) as planned--including new service on Pulaski-Crawford north of Peterson.. If the people in Mayfair don't like it,  they can comment.

[Busjack]

It's finally posted.

Base fare goes up 25 cents, monthly passes up $5, half fares up 10 cents bus with Ventra card, 15 cents rail or cash bus fare, other fares the same.

Also frequently mentioned is that ridership is down and is projected to go down in 2018, 4.7% for bus and 2.7% for rail.

The other thing indicated is that the ride hailing tax will be used as security for bonds.

Other new stuff:

• Tactile bus stop signs are to be installed for the blind (page 70).
• Bus and Bus Facilities program (page 82) says CTA is seeking grants for plug in hybrid and clean diesel buses to replace 1999 model buses. Maybe that explains (to @BusHunter's chagrin), why there are still so many 6400s around. The budget also indicates that there are still lease payments on 6400s (page 60).
• Several other programs are listed in pages 82-83 under which CTA got grants for electric buses.

[sw4400]

12 hours ago, Busjack said:

It's finally posted.

Base fare goes up 25 cents, monthly passes up $5, half fares up 10 cents bus with Ventra card, 15 cents rail or cash bus fare, other fares the same.

Also frequently mentioned is that ridership is down and is projected to go down in 2018, 4.7% for bus and 2.7% for rail.

The other thing indicated is that the ride hailing tax will be used as security for bonds.

Other new stuff:

• Tactile bus stop signs are to be installed for the blind (page 70).
• Bus and Bus Facilities program (page 82) says CTA is seeking grants for plug in hybrid and clean diesel buses to replace 1999 model buses. Maybe that explains (to @BusHunter's chagrin), why there are still so many 6400s around. The budget also indicates that there are still lease payments on 6400s (page 60).
• Several other programs are listed in pages 82-83 under which CTA got grants for electric buses.

I think whoever put together this pdf. made a big oopsie...

"In FY 2018-2022, funding of $75.4 million is provided for two initiatives: the first is the life extending overhaul of up to 430,1000-Series New Flyer Articulated buses, and the second is the overhaul of up to 100 of the 4300/4333-Series New Flyer Articulated buses."

Anyone see the error?

Also, on Page 83, it looks like the CTA applied for 1.08 million in funds for the purchases toward the purchase of 3 all-electric buses. The 40 earlier mentioned, like you said @Busjack is for a mix of clean diesel and hybrid buses.

[artthouwill]

6 hours ago, sw4400 said:

I think whoever put together this pdf. made a big oopsie...

"In FY 2018-2022, funding of $75.4 million is provided for two initiatives: the first is the life extending overhaul of up to 430,1000-Series New Flyer Articulated buses, and the second is the overhaul of up to 100 of the 4300/4333-Series New Flyer Articulated buses."

Anyone see the error?

Also, on Page 83, it looks like the CTA applied for 1.08 million in funds for the purchases toward the purchase of 3 all-electric buses. The 40 earlier mentioned, like you said @Busjack is for a mix of clean diesel and hybrid buses.

CTA  has a. Secret stash of 430 ARTICULATED buses which happened to be the same series number as the 40ft buses.

[Pace831]

7 hours ago, sw4400 said:

Anyone see the error?

The word "extending" has multiple meanings.

[Busjack]

4 hours ago, artthouwill said:

CTA  has a. Secret stash of 430 ARTICULATED buses which happened to be the same series number as the 40ft buses.

Yeah, I caught the error.

7 hours ago, sw4400 said:

Also, on Page 83, it looks like the CTA applied for 1.08 million in funds for the purchases toward the purchase of 3 all-electric buses. The 40 earlier mentioned, like you said @Busjack is for a mix of clean diesel and hybrid buses.

No, that wasn't what I said.There seems to be 4 things going on

• Last year's CMAQ grant for the additional cost of maybe 25 electric buses not mentioned in this budget.
• Bus and Bus Facilities Program: 20 plug in hybrid and 20 clean diesel buses (not clear if CTA applied twice in 2017).
• Low or No Emission Vehicle Deployment Program: Awarded a grant for 4 electric buses.
• EPA’s National Clean Diesel Funding Assistance Program. Awarded a grant for up to 5 electric busies. Further application for 3 electric buses.

In short. you missed 9 electric buses in this capital plan that seem to be firm.

 

[BusHunter]

On 11/22/2017 at 1:08 PM, Busjack said:

It's finally posted.

Base fare goes up 25 cents, monthly passes up $5, half fares up 10 cents bus with Ventra card, 15 cents rail or cash bus fare, other fares the same.

Also frequently mentioned is that ridership is down and is projected to go down in 2018, 4.7% for bus and 2.7% for rail.

The other thing indicated is that the ride hailing tax will be used as security for bonds.

Other new stuff:

• Tactile bus stop signs are to be installed for the blind (page 70).
• Bus and Bus Facilities program (page 82) says CTA is seeking grants for plug in hybrid and clean diesel buses to replace 1999 model buses. Maybe that explains (to @BusHunter's chagrin), why there are still so many 6400s around. The budget also indicates that there are still lease payments on 6400s (page 60).
• Several other programs are listed in pages 82-83 under which CTA got grants for electric buses.

It still doesn't make much sense to make lease payments on something that sits in the south shops junkyard. I dont know of anyone making lease payments on 15-17 year old equipment. 

As far as ridership is concerned, not only are the ride sharing services cheaper than taxis they also go where the bus can't and are a more personalized service. I can't help but wonder how much they are eroding the cta ridership.  Did you know multiple passengers can ride for the same price as one passenger!!  A party of 3 would be paying close to 7 dollars on cta when the average fare is not much more on a ride share. It's no wonder they are so successful.

[Busjack]

46 minutes ago, BusHunter said:

t still doesn't make much sense to make lease payments on something that sits in the south shops junkyard. I dont know of anyone making lease payments on 15-17 year old equipment. 

It was strictly a financial decision when made, and they have to pay the bank. As usual, I challenge anyone to try to figure out the DEBT ADMINISTRATION part of the budget book.

[BusHunter]

Yeah it just seems weird that they are leasing old equipment. This answers all our questions why they are still running though. Probably if they breached the contract they would just be sued for the just amount. So might as well run them. So I wonder as part of the lease are they paying for maintenance. If not it's a sweetheart deal.