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Anthony Devera

What to Do With Surplus Artics

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4 hours ago, Busjack said:

But,in more of tales of the unexpected, it looks like Kedzie is running it today, based on buses being in its range.

matts.thumb.png.38acabdbd0156c2d46561453b3742b13.png

Bringing my response to this observation to the proper topic, this and your earlier observations confirm that Kedzie only sent artics out on this route that first week and halfway into the second week that the 130 had been back when Kedzie did cover its service during these past few weeks.

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my idea to prevent buses from being late and use artics is to have routes be 50% artic rather that 100% artic

*certain times only(mainly rush hour)

1, 2, 3*, 4*, 8*, 20*, 21, 28*, 29*, 36*, 52*, 56*, 60*, 62*, 65*, 66, 72*, 74, 79, 80, 82 and (201* maybe 25% rather than 50%)

i'm not super confident about some routes  

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2 hours ago, XE NewFlyer said:

my idea to prevent buses from being late and use artics is to have routes be 50% artic rather that 100% artic

*certain times only(mainly rush hour)

1, 2, 3*, 4*, 8*, 20*, 21, 28*, 29*, 36*, 52*, 56*, 60*, 62*, 65*, 66, 72*, 74, 79, 80, 82 and (201* maybe 25% rather than 50%)

i'm not super confident about some routes  

You can take routes 1, 21, 36, 56, 60, 62 off the list as they either parallel a rail lone and therefore are more filling in the gaps.  The rest only would work if you used those artics as a X service to get around schedule issues with dwell times affecting local routes etc

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3 hours ago, XE NewFlyer said:

my idea to prevent buses from being late and use artics is to have routes be 50% artic rather that 100% artic

*certain times only(mainly rush hour)

1, 2, 3*, 4*, 8*, 20*, 21, 28*, 29*, 36*, 52*, 56*, 60*, 62*, 65*, 66, 72*, 74, 79, 80, 82 and (201* maybe 25% rather than 50%)

i'm not super confident about some routes  

1, 28, 52, 60, 72, 74, 80, 201: Not sure the ridership justifies this.

3, 66, 79: Runs too many buses that artics hurt service, not help it.

4: Would probably be fine if it could siphon regular shoeboxes or novas off the 3, although having three different SB termini isn't exactly helping.

8: I think someone pointed out a long time ago that routes like the 8 & 9 have high ridership is not because people are taking it end to end but rather to transfer from bus to bus and thus I'm not sure artics would help. @Busjack or @jajuan can probably speak more on this than I can.

20: Does the route experience the crush loads necessary for artics?

21, 29, 36, 62, 65: Parallels the L

28: See 1

29: The 29 does run artics on rare occasions, but I've only ever seen it midday when the bus would otherwise be deadheading along the Dan back to 103rd. Also, see 21

82: Uses artics on occasions other than school trips, but very rare

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6 hours ago, NewFlyerMCI said:

1, 28, 52, 60, 72, 74, 80, 201: Not sure the ridership justifies this.

20: Does the route experience the crush loads necessary for artics?

21, 29, 36, 62, 65: Parallels the L

 

1: sort of i have seen some standees on board during rush hour

28: it does i see them packed all the time

52, 60, 201 these are the iffy ones i'm not so sure myself

72, 74, 80 WB in the afternoon always packed

20: yes

65: does not parallel any rail line

21, 62: still see them packed 

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17 minutes ago, XE NewFlyer said:

another idea is to sell some artics to pace to use on the 352 and other routes that might need them 

Might be better to see if ART needs it first.  Express service alone could thin out the crowds with reduced delays/dwell times in some cases like with Ashland or Western

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2 hours ago, XE NewFlyer said:

another idea is to sell some artics to pace to use on the 352 and other routes that might need them 

No Pace bus is going to need artics or they would've purchased some by now. The 352 is the Pace bus route with the highest ridership, with levels this past June 2018 clocking in around 136k rounding. By contrast, the lowest performing CTA route in the top 10 is the 3, with 449k. Also of note is that many of the routes with the highest ridership do not use artics on a regular basis (e.g. 8, 9, 53, 77, 82), or had them and lost them (e.g. 3, 4, 66, 79).

Weekday boardings for the 352 in March 2018 were 4,964. If this were a CTA route, it would be in between the 126 & the 35, neither of which need artics. Furthermore, during peak times, between the 8A (every 11-14 mins), the 108 (every 17-20 mins) and the 352 (every 15 mins), there is more than enough bus service (if my math is right, that's a bus every 5-6 mins, spaced evenly) on Halsted btwn 127th & the Red Line that artics aren't really necessary. 

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2 hours ago, Sam92 said:

Might be better to see if ART needs it first.  Express service alone could thin out the crowds with reduced delays/dwell times in some cases like with Ashland or Western

ART? Is this the Ashland Jump?

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18 hours ago, NewFlyerMCI said:

1, 28, 52, 60, 72, 74, 80, 201: Not sure the ridership justifies this.

3, 66, 79: Runs too many buses that artics hurt service, not help it.

4: Would probably be fine if it could siphon regular shoeboxes or novas off the 3, although having three different SB termini isn't exactly helping.

8: I think someone pointed out a long time ago that routes like the 8 & 9 have high ridership is not because people are taking it end to end but rather to transfer from bus to bus and thus I'm not sure artics would help. @Busjack or @jajuan can probably speak more on this than I can.

20: Does the route experience the crush loads necessary for artics?

21, 29, 36, 62, 65: Parallels the L

28: See 1

29: The 29 does run artics on rare occasions, but I've only ever seen it midday when the bus would otherwise be deadheading along the Dan back to 103rd. Also, see 21

82: Uses artics on occasions other than school trips, but very rare

On the point about the 8 and 9, yeah the higher numbers are more because folks are taking short rides to transfer to other routes that connect with the 9. And Sam alluded to my othet point that the return of the X9 has helped thin crowds down somewhat due to shorter dwell times to board and unload passengers. The 8 would need 77th to stop acting allergic to having artics assigned to it long enough for that route to see any artics. That would also apply to the 3, 4 and 79 as well since they also are assigned to 77th. And as XE New Flyer mentioned 65 doesn't run parallel to any L lines, but its numbers aren't up there to use artics all that efficiently. Also his point of selling some artics is a nonstarter for PACE because if it felt it had any need for artics it would have made direct purchases instead of any hypothetical second hand purchase from CTA. 

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2 minutes ago, NewFlyerMCI said:

ART? Is this the Ashland Jump?

ART is Arterial Rapid Transit, which is basically the suburban analogy for BRT. 

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17 hours ago, XE NewFlyer said:

another idea is to sell some artics to pace to use on the 352 and other routes that might need them 

  • Despite the myth perpetuated on this board, Pace does not buy CTA surplus (as @jajuan stated). On the other hand... CTA could pick up some of the NABIs on the Pace disposition list. It has done similar before.
  • Pace has already defined what kind of buses go on Pulse, except it appears that 352 will use CNGs.
  • Getting back to the last go around on this with @andrethebusman nobody has shown that artics would work any better on Halsted than they did on 79th or Chicago Ave., nor who would pay to rebuild the Harvey and Chicago Heights TCs to accommodate them. I'm still waiting.
  • For that matter, it has been said ad nauseum here that 74th and FG don't have artics, despite that 9 and 49 could theoretically use them, because the garages don't have lifts to accommodate them. What makes you think Pace garages do?
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1 hour ago, Busjack said:
  • . CTA could pick up some of the NABIs on the Pace disposition list. It has done similar before.

they will only be temporary because there old but that could work so the cta can save funds mabye some 35 footers as well

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33 minutes ago, XE NewFlyer said:

they will only be temporary because there old but that could work so the cta can save funds mabye some 35 footers as well

Um did you not see @Busjack's point that PACE does not have the garage or transit center infrastructure available to accommodate artics? So this incessant proposing that CTA sell some to PACE even on a temporary basis is a nonstarter and just not going to happen no matter how many times you keep pushing it or how temporary you mention it would be.

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43 minutes ago, jajuan said:

Um did you not see @Busjack's point that PACE does not have the garage or transit center infrastructure available to accommodate artics? So this incessant proposing that CTA sell some to PACE even on a temporary basis is a nonstarter and just not going to happen no matter how many times you keep pushing it or how temporary you mention it would be.

i was talking about the NABIs not the artics

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1 hour ago, XE NewFlyer said:

they will only be temporary because there old but that could work so the cta can save funds mabye some 35 footers as well

But CTA doesn't need those NABIs. It could use 35ft buses, but CTA still wouldn't need those either.

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1 hour ago, NewFlyerMCI said:

But CTA doesn't need those NABIs. It could use 35ft buses, but CTA still wouldn't need those either.

With all the complaints about the 6400s breaking down and only having a partial path to replacement, acquiring  Pace  depreciated vehicles  is less facetious than  to say  that Pace is not only going to buy CTA mistakes, but also incur the infrastructure  and operating costs that would ensue.

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4 hours ago, Busjack said:

With all the complaints about the 6400s breaking down and only having a partial path to replacement, acquiring  Pace  depreciated vehicles  is less facetious than  to say  that Pace is not only going to buy CTA mistakes, but also incur the infrastructure  and operating costs that would ensue.

While CTA's 4915s did well, I'm not sure if  Pace's NABIs are up to the task to help CTA, even on FG routes.

 

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Pace buying CTA mistakes inanity aside, my point about selling them was to somewhere like some university town, Texas, Detroit, Las Vegas, etc.  not that I know whether they can use them, and @andrethebusman indicating that there wasn't a market.

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