7000-series - Delivery & Updates

[Mr.cta85]

Have anybody else noticed besides the blue end caps the top of the new cars are blue as well? 

[Busjack]

9 hours ago, sw4400 said:

Is this still the breakdown for options? This was from 2013, when the 7000's were initially expected this year before the cancellation and rebid of the contract.

Base order + 8 options, totaling 846 cars breaks down as the following:

• Base Order for 100 cars
• Option 1 for 50 cars
• Option 2 for 50 cars
• Option 3 for 100 cars
• Option 4 for 100 cars
• Option 5 for 156 cars
• Option 6 for 100 cars
• Option 7 for 100 cars
• Option 8 for 90 cars

No. The other reason it was rebid was that the base order was too small to attract bidders. The base is 400, and then as Garmon indicated, Option 5 is now Option 1.

[Busjack]

8 hours ago, BusHunter said:

On a side note, I wonder could they just be building the factory to build these cars and sell it off to someone. In boston, they have a plant in Springfield,Mass. Do they need two american factories?

They do if they wanted both contracts.

[Busjack]

22 hours ago, garmon757 said:

There are 4 options is this order pending: 

1. 156 rail cars = $237,120,000

2. and 3. 100 rail cars each = $152,000,000 each

4. 90 rail cars = $136,800,000

Total of 446 rail cars = $677,920,000

 

22 hours ago, Busjack said:

 

Didn't mention the base order of 400.

 

Sun-Times has it. "The contract, worth up to $1.309 billion for 846 rail cars, will begin with 400 rail cars, at a cost of $632 million."

[sw4400]

1 hour ago, Busjack said:

They do if they wanted both contracts.

One will probably be closed after the contract is completed. I don't think CSR will want two bases of operation in the U.S, especially with the life of railcars in the U.S averaging 25-30 years, future orders with other TA's might be years away, so work may not warrant two plants. Bombardier only has one(Plattsburgh), even bus companies New Flyer(St. Cloud, MN) and Nova Bus(Plattsburgh, NY) only have one plant each.

[Busjack]

1 hour ago, sw4400 said:

One will probably be closed after the contract is completed.

If you want to predict things in 2027, go ahead. I bet nobody predicted 12 years ago that Jewel would become Safeway.

[Busjack]

1 hour ago, sw4400 said:

even bus companies New Flyer(St. Cloud, MN) ...only have one plant each.

That's not true. NF also has facilities in Crookston MN and Anniston AL, and a completion center in Ontario, CA (locations page), not to mention the MCI facility.

[Busjack]

7 hours ago, sw4400 said:

One will probably be closed after the contract is completed.

Despite  my previous comment, there is one sense in  which I concur with you.

The reason there isn't any American rail car company is that there isn't sufficient demand to sustain one. In effect, CTA is in the midst of an 17-year buying binge, and unless it expands the rapid transit system (beyond the last 2 expansion options in this order), won't be eligible to get new cars (for replacements) until about 2040. So, any company getting this business had better figure on getting more business, or is planning to close in 2027.

[west towns]

Place your bets- will there be schedule delays ?    Defects with the cars? Labor issues?  

[sw4400]

1 hour ago, west towns said:

Place your bets- will there be schedule delays ?    Defects with the cars? Labor issues?  

I'll reserve judgment until the prototype and first dozen or two roll in starting in 2019(if chitransit.org is still here then.... Kevin may decide to shut it down before then.... he's the Administrator and owner...it's his site). I will say this.... if CSR doesn't use that same original Chinese company that had wheel or wheel bearing problems with the 5000's originally before Bombardier terminated them and went to a German or German/Chinese manufactuer, then I see no reason why an issue should come up.

[BusHunter]

1 hour ago, west towns said:

Place your bets- will there be schedule delays ?    Defects with the cars? Labor issues?  

You might be interested in this story. Some Bostonians have criticized the picking of a company with communist beliefs as in China and it's nuclear program and the defiance of Kim Jong Un against the UN testing nuclear missiles, doing essentially whatever he pleases. Some say they don't want to fund communism and it is a sensitive subject among our foreign born ancestors. I have to admit the thought also crossed my mind. Here's the link:

https://www.bostonglobe.com/metro/2014/10/21/gov-patrick-announces-chinese-company-top-bidder-replace-red-and-orange-line-cars/i6hN6Q1UX0fmu49kzqkB9N/story.html

[sw4400]

This needs to be addressed, and has merit on this topic so I'll put it here.... it's OT, but it ties in....

In the current situation of our 2016 Presidential race, we have one candidate who seems to be getting a stronger and stronger following... while I won't mention the name publicly, I think it can be deduced rather quickly here based on the material piece I'm piecing in here. I'm mentioning it because we have CSR Sifang America JV building our 7000-Series Railcars for the 2019-2022 time frame, but this candidate is proposing high tariffs(45%!!!) on exports from China to the U.S!!! This might have some impact on the 7000-Series contract even before building begins..... dare I think that CSR Sifang America JV may pull out of the contract for this reason, and might it be possible? I know they have some U.S operations, but I'm sure they still get a percentage of parts for their trains from China, which will be tariffed heavily by this candidate(aside from what other outrageous and immoral ideas to better America this candidate proposes).

Anyone else think this candidate, should (name left out) become President, cause a possible stall, rewrite or cancellation of this contract for CTA?

[Busjack]

1 hour ago, sw4400 said:

In the current situation of our 2016 Presidential race

Unless you are referring to Bernie Sanders, the fact still is that the Buy America Act requires 60% American content (reports are that it is going up to 70%) and final assembly here means that the impact on price isn't going to be great. Remember that Bombardier was importing Chinese parts. The only difference is whether the car bodies will be fabricated outside the U.S.

The other thing is that it is the Chinese government affiliated company that has to CYA in the contract, before it is made. CTA has proven that it will take vendors to court (and, in particular, the vendor has to submit to the jurisdiction of the Circuit Court of Cook County).

[Juniorz]

All i'm going to say is this, the manufacturer has been selected and the contract will be signed, sealed and delivered in April!

Whatever theories or notions that are out there have been revealed and apparently the cta feels content within it's decision to choose CSR. 

Let's just observe, watch and wait for the new series to arrive in late-2019 and enjoy the countdown of the 2600-series.

[Busjack]

13 minutes ago, Juniorz said:

Let's just observe, watch and wait for the new series to arrive in late-2019 and enjoy the countdown of the 2600-series.

5750 and BusHunter will be waiting.

[Juniorz]

Here is the service plan for the 7000s

[BusHunter]

10 minutes ago, Juniorz said:

Here is the service plan for the 7000s

The only thing that's sort of misleading by that is that the Orange and Brown lines together are more than 256 cars. They are upwards of 350-400 themselves together. So they would have to go into the 190 expansion option to just retrofit blue, brown and orange. That is unless someone coughs up some #5000's to orange, but why do that if you have an incompatibility problem in 2022-24. But then again 400 #2600 cars does not include the orange line, so CTA I think is in a catch-22 here. They very well might have to cough up #5000's to orange only to give them back to whoever, due to incompatibility with the #7000's. Fleet expansion on the Red might very well include the #5000's that are extra for Orange. Bottom line is something is going to replace #2600's on the orange, but nothing's happened so far. It will probably be similar to FG the equipment doesn't get replaced until there is no other choice.

[Juniorz]

To make this short, ain't nothing shaking until 2020! 

Get used to it and enjoy those 2600s, because once they're gone, they're gone forever!!!!!!!!!!!

[garmon757]

The most recent posts have been deleted due to irrelevancy. I don't know how in the world Donald Trump became present inside the forum. Keep it down SW with yo goofy self! 

[Busjack]

19 hours ago, BusHunter said:

The only thing that's sort of misleading by that is that the Orange and Brown lines together are more than 256 cars. They are upwards of 350-400 themselves together. So they would have to go into the 190 expansion option to just retrofit blue, brown and orange.

Unless you somehow argue that CTA really needs more than 400 2600s into 2020, no. As I said before, since the Orange Line is running only 2600s and 3200s, it isn't getting any 5000s, and six months later, despite what you said, hasn't. There also may be a current surplus of cars because some are out for rehab.

What Juniorz posted was the case since the first addendum to the first solicitation, except merger of the options to get to the 400 base order. And nothing Juniorz posted said which lines.

[BusHunter]

34 minutes ago, Busjack said:

Unless you somehow argue that CTA really needs more than 400 2600s into 2020, no. As I said before, since the Orange Line is running only 2600s and 3200s, it isn't getting any 5000s, and six months later, despite what you said, hasn't. There also may be a current surplus of cars because some are out for rehab.

What Juniorz posted was the case since the first addendum to the first solicitation, except merger of the options to get to the 400 base order. And nothing Juniorz posted said which lines.

What do you mean the Orange line is not getting anything? What are the riders going to ride, when the #2600's are gone? 400 cars will remain but those will be on the blue line, so unless the #2400's are resurrected by a magic genie, that story doesn't have any gas. Unfortunately cars being out for rehab will be the prevailing story for at least 2 years, so they don't have that loophole. So since you have the answers explain it to me!!

[Busjack]

6 minutes ago, BusHunter said:

What do you mean the Orange line is not getting anything? What are the riders going to ride, when the #2600's are gone? 400 cars will remain but those will be on the blue line,

• I didn't say "the Orange line is not getting anything." I said it wasn't going to get 5000s as part of this delivery. It didn't.
• Nothing saying that the Blue Line needs 400 cars, other than to cover for junk. The Blue Line's demand should be down, with all the short turns. But maybe the Eisenhower project, if ever done, will be considered "expansion."
• "Cars being out for rehab for the next two years" has nothing to do with whether more 7000s will be needed in 2024.

[BusHunter]

38 minutes ago, Busjack said:

• I didn't say "the Orange line is not getting anything." I said it wasn't going to get 5000s as part of this delivery. It didn't.
• Nothing saying that the Blue Line needs 400 cars, other than to cover for junk. The Blue Line's demand should be down, with all the short turns. But maybe the Eisenhower project, if ever done, will be considered "expansion."
• "Cars being out for rehab for the next two years" has nothing to do with whether more 7000s will be needed in 2024.

huh, huh and huh???

1. Yeah but it's getting something and it's probably not blue line #2600's!!

2. So your telling me that the green line can have 140 new cars when it once ran with 98 old ones? Then the Blue line can sacrifice the oldest in the CTA fleet to have a minimum spare ratio, but the Green line can have a max spare ratio with new cars???

3. You totally lost me here. 164 cars currently run the Orange, 180 cars currently run the Brown. Add them together and what do you get? 344, so the first option is for 256 right, how does 256 cars replace 344? 400 cars will probably always be on the blue, why not, every other line is bloated why not the one with the oldest cars too.

I don't know if people realize this but the expansion cars for Red are already here in the form of #5000's. If Red did go with #7000's it would have to cough up all it has 426 #5000 cars and then the yellow and purple would be incompatible with the #7000's at Howard, so they would have to swap all those lines with #7000's for it to work. Not impossible to do but alot of work.

 

[Busjack]

1 hour ago, BusHunter said:

Yeah but it's getting something and it's probably not blue line #2600's!!

Probably will get some between 2020 and 2024. Like Forest Glen didn't get any Novas from 74th and C. Or did it?

1 hour ago, BusHunter said:

400 cars will probably always be on the blue

As I said above, probably not. Hard to justify over 320 under present conditions.

As I have frequently said, you assume bloat. I do not.

[sw4400]

7 hours ago, garmon757 said:

The most recent posts have been deleted due to irrelevancy. I don't know how in the world Donald Trump became present inside the forum. Keep it down SW with yo goofy self! 

Thanks garmon and sorry..... Blech!!!