Bustracker

[Busjack]

I tried this out, and assuming it is accurate (we couldn't say that for Pace's) buses are bunched, even on a Saturday night. 6700 and 6701 were within a block of each other WB, as were 6705 and 6706 going EB. This resulted eastbound of intervals of 11 (6706), 12 (6705), and 29 minutes (6713) EB at Washington & Jefferson. CTA had better find out a way to get the buses unbunched, or this will just show how badly service is regulated.

BTW, after I loaded the java plug in as requested, I didn't have any problem with this using Firefox. Both the map and the next bus time windows appeared to update automatically.

[Kevin]

It looks like the incorrect redirection to the mobile version of the site I wrote about in the news article is actually present only on Macs. When using either Safari or Firefox on a Mac you're sent to the mobile version of the site. I assumed the same would be the case for Firefox on Windows as well since the browser uses the same identifier, but apparently I was wrong.

edit: Seems to be working fine on all browsers on all platforms this morning.

[ryanbytes]

How is bus bunching dealt with? You can't hold a bus at a point along the route until the bus ahead is farther along because the riders would raise all hell. If buses are held at one end or another then you might have a less buses going in the direction opposite the bunch assuming the obstruction and traffic that caused the bunch cleared.

[Busjack]

How is bus bunching dealt with? You can't hold a bus at a point along the route until the bus ahead is farther along because the riders would raise all hell. If buses are held at one end or another then you might have a less buses going in the direction opposite the bunch assuming the obstruction and traffic that caused the bunch cleared.

That is exactly what you don't do. Knowing CTA, that would get the headway up from 20 minutes on a 10 minute route to an hour.

When programmable signs first appeared in the 1980s, MTA New York City Transit would put a sign on the leader saying "NEXT BUS PLEASE." You then run that bus as an express until it gets back on schedule. Hence, 6706 gets back on schedule, and the people, say from Pulaski to Western, take 6705. What good does it do to pack 6706 and run 6705 empty behind it? (And I've seen worse, such as the trailer being an articulated bus on 79, following two 40 footers).

In the old days, CTA had other strategies, such as short turning late runs.

My only point, is that since (again assuming this system is accurate), the control center has enough information to see that the problem is developing, and should do something about it. If, in fact, there is nothing to keep 6706 and 6705 from running together, replace them with one articulated and save one driver.

[MetroShadow]

In the old days, CTA had other strategies, such as short turning late runs.

Correct me if I am wrong, but they still do that today, or at least I've seen it done on Belmont and Harlem routes in the past couple of weeks.

This program looks promising, and they should have color codes (early, late, express, out of route, etc.), and maybe this will promote buses actually running on time. Should the bus run behind tomorrow, there would be speed-ups for buses to catch up on and prevent bunching.

(IMHO, This should've been practiced along the N. LSD routes in the past =p )

[trainman8119]

I think the thing that keeps being overlooked by everyone from the top bean counter to the lowest form of passenger life is that when it comes to schedule, the main factors for a bus to stay on schedule are traffic conditions and passenger loading. Buses bunch and run late becuase of a traffic light that is out, or accident, fire or simply heavy Friday traffic. Add that to the passenger who insists on putting a bike on the front end, not having a fare ready, asking questions, or wheelchair loading.

All the bells and whistles don't change this fact, and it will forever be this way. Until planners figure out that you don't get in a car and go from time point to time point without making stops and/or allowances....until managers ride a bus once in awhile and see what goes on instead sucking up to the mayor in their pretty yellow rain coats...etc things are not going to change. These people constantly look at something like bustracker or GPS and don't have a clue what they are looking at. For that reason, I contend that these little gimmicks are nothing but a big waste of money.

[Busjack]

For that reason, I contend that these little gimmicks are nothing but a big waste of money.

Depends on whether things like what DSorrell suggests ever get implemented. But there seems to be no point publishing a schedule that says, for instance, that #20 runs Saturday night every 12 minutes, when, in fact, the average interval is 24, because the buses are bunched. It might not have made much of a difference when buses were running every 3 minutes, but does now.

But this does become a waste of money if CTA and its apologists continue to maintain that CTA is efficient, and that any customer complaint will be forwarded to the supervisor (presumably for nonaction), when the information now exists to make real time adjustments, but isn't used properly. (Take a look at Krambles, CTA at 45, pages 88 and 89--the service control technologies for which he wished 15 years ago are here.)

P.S. I don't see how this became a political photo op for da Mare. I'm sure the city had nothing to do with this; federal taxpayers' money probably paid for it. He appears to take credit for anything the CTA does (like his appearance at Archer Garage for 1002), but expects the surburbs to pay for the operating losses.

[rmadisonwi]

Until planners figure out that you don't get in a car and go from time point to time point without making stops and/or allowances....until managers ride a bus once in awhile and see what goes on instead sucking up to the mayor in their pretty yellow rain coats...etc things are not going to change.

I can tell you that your impression of the way CTA (and its planners and managers) works is severely misguided.

[Busjack]

I can tell you that your impression of the way CTA (and its planners and managers) works is severely misguided.

Maybe you can inform us what they actually do (and also the source for your information). As illustrated by my comments above and in the Poor Fleet Management thread, as a rider, I have a different view of CTA management and supervisors; maybe they are the enablers for the kinds of things trainman seems to support. It seems to me that they can't establish service control in the sense of having equipment there when needed, or on schedule.

Apparently, from the sightings this week, they did do a better job for Tall Ships/Lollapalooza than they did with the Auto Show or Taste.

[rmadisonwi]

I can assure you that my coworkers and managers do get on buses, more often than "once in a while," and do understand that buses do actually make stops en route.

There are lots of factors that wouldn't necessarily be obvious to the rider that make things more complicated. Scheduling for runs to trade buses, so an articulated bus can stay out all night, is difficult if you don't even know if the garage will have an articulated bus available to put on that run. Even if they did, how do you know if that bus is going to be anywhere close to on time, considering how bad traffic can be (especially for special events)? Then we could have a relief driver waiting for a run that might be 45 minutes late.

Scheduling extras for events like Taste of Chicago (especially July 3), Tall Ships, etc. is a lot of work. One of my coworkers put in over 110 hours in the last two weeks, most of it just to schedule the extra service for tall ships (and being on salary, all of that overtime was donated to the company). It's good to know that the hard work and effort of these people (nearly all of whom are daily riders, to/from work, and some of whom are former drivers for CTA) gets met with "they should ride the bus more, blah blah blah."

When you put in your 30+ hours of uncompensated overtime to put together supplemental schedules for the tons of special events, on top of a bus pick, on top of the various rail schedule bulletins that get issued on a weekly basis, on top of budgetary pressure to "spend less money," on top of pressure from service planning to "run more service," on top of complaints from the garages that they don't have enough buses to meet pull out, then I'll listen to your complaints about how bad CTA's planning staff and managers are.

[trainman8119]

As a former Pace employee, I know how the planners there work...they don't ride buses like they should. They don't listen when people offer suggestions, or solutions to a problem. And they outright refuse to acknowledge that they are ever wrong.

That said, I will also concede that comparing Pace to CTA is unfair, because as bad as the CTA may seem, they are a much better run system than Pace could ever dream of being. I will suggest that you hit the nail on the head when it comes to what the problem is over there. It is real simple...lack of communication between the departments. When one person has to put in 110 hours for something that should have a blue print to it already, I will question the wisdom of what that one person is doing. There should be an outline in place of where the extra service should come from....how many operators may be available, how many and from where buses are available. Is it feasible to run buses, perhaps, an entire route or short turn it. It has been done time and time again, and by now all of this should be fine tuned. It should not be up to a schedule planner to worry about if an artic is available or not. The schedule planner should create the schedule. It should then be up to operations to figure out which bus goes where. It should be up to the street supervisors to keep the buses on time or at least close to it, and if not, make the proper notifications to get that relief in a position, so that he is not taking over something that is 45 minutes late. I will contend, that if the transit managers were doing their jobs, no bus would ever be 45 minutes late (and actually anything over 10 is unacceptable), no matter what the reason.

Often times, those who came up through the ranks, those who should know the ins and outs of the system, will forget where they came from once they get a management title. I see it every day on the railroad, and unfortunately I saw it way to much at Pace too...and listenting to many CTA operators, it happens there too...it is just the nature of the beast.

One final thing on this....nothing is absolute. I am sure that there are many knowlegable, hard working, dedicated people who sweat CTA grey (or blue or red...whatever identity the CTA has these days). The problem comes from those in power who a) probably couldn't make a useful decision if their lives depended on it or don't have the stones to make a decision for fear it will either offend someone or will result in the loss of the whole $2 fare (see all of my comments on bikes, for example).

At one time, the CTA was an outstanding system and could be depended on to get you from point a to point b. Today, I don't think that is totally true as often you have to go through point c to get there (and without a transfer too).

[Busjack]

Getting back closer to the topic of this thread, the Red Eye had this today:

"CTA standard operating procedures require rail and bus operators to make all service stops," Ziegler said. "As a result, operators are not allowed to forego a stop because the bus appears to be full, and it is left up to the customer's discretion whether or not to board."

So, if that policy remains unchanged, trainman is right; the tracking system is a waste of money.

[Peter]

I've been informed that there will be a discussion of this at the CTA board's meeting next Wednesday, March 14, 10 a.m., 567 W. Lake, 2nd floor. I for one have seen no evidence that the Bustracker will do anything except waste millions that should properly be going into restoring cut service.

[Busjack]

CTA has a pdf on its Feb. Board Meeting Presentations page about Bustracker, indicating at least that it is getting some satisfied customer feedback on it. However, it only peripherally mentions (on page 7) the core issue--whether it is or can be used by the control center and street supervisors to restore regular intervals of service, as previously discussed here. If it were implemented to do that, it would certainly be worth it. But if not, my message of August 8 still stands.

Pace is ahead of CTA with WebWatch, but as noted in Webwatch, a half-hearted endeavor, the implementation of that is also questionable. With regard to the predictions, it is not clear whether they are real time or based on past experience. There is a Live Map, which shows at least all of the routes operated by Pace divisions. However, the plug in only works with Internet Explorer, not Firefox, and none of the maps has been updated to reflect the North Shore and Fox Valley restructurings. For instance, while the Route 250 map is large enough that buses on Lee Street show "off the route," the maps for Routes 422 and 530 do not extend far enough west to show buses on segments added to those routes (the old 212 and 526).

Thus, at the moment, both implementations are half-baked. Maybe they can learn.

[jesi2282]

What's up with Webwatch? They took out the live map.

[MetroShadow]

Correct me if I am wrong, but they still do that today, or at least I've seen it done on Belmont and Harlem routes in the past couple of weeks.

This program looks promising, and they should have color codes (early, late, express, out of route, etc.), and maybe this will promote buses actually running on time. Should the bus run behind tomorrow, there would be speed-ups for buses to catch up on and prevent bunching.

(IMHO, This should've been practiced along the N. LSD routes in the past =p )

I guess judging from the press release, I was eventually going to get my wish. lol.

[Busjack]

I guess judging from the press release, I was eventually going to get my wish. lol.

Putting the cited press release with the other one on CTA Amends Capital Budget... and the Tribune article, I guess we can determine the source of the funds for this project.

The Tribune says that "Chicago would be the first city to deploy the technology citywide," but we know that Pace has it areawide. Whether either can use it effectively for service control waits to be seen.

[trainman8119]

I get a kick out of the contstant referral to "supervisory personell will be able to monitor service..." comment. It seems as though that is all that is done...as if someone is looking at this and saying, yup...this bus is late. When was the last time you saw a bus turned back short ???? I get downtown around 1:30 every day...and very often find 3 Madison buses in a row between, say, Ogilvie and Wells St. Wonderful use. Put the money elsewhere !!!!

[Busjack]

trainman basically raises the issue I raised earlier in this topic regarding what the supervisors actually do, if anything to restore service regularity. I see from juliehamos.org/transit that State Rep. Marlow Colvin has submitted legislation, requiring, among other things, that the RTA agencies file annual:

"Service Performance Reports":

(i) On-time performance: the percentages of trips arriving at the last stop within 5 minutes of schedule, with reasons for annulments and the principal causes of delays.

(ii) Service regularity: the percentage of the actual intervals between trips that are within plus or minus 50% of the scheduled interval (for intervals of less than 10 minutes) or within plus or minus 5 minutes of the scheduled interval (for intervals of 10 minutes or more).

(iii) Interruption of service: The average distance between service interruptions; that is, the number of miles traveled by a vehicle divided by the total number of chargeable "road calls", including mechanical swaps that interrupt service.

(iv) Crowding: one-hour passenger volume per vehicle at maximum load points at the a.m. and p.m. rush period.

(v) Capacity utilization: daily passenger load divided by the rated capacity of the vehicles for the a.m. and p.m. peaks, mid-days, evenings, Saturdays, and Sundays.

(vi) Speeds of buses and trains. ...

While this maybe is just another burdensome paperwork mandate, if the CTA Board and management had been monitoring service performance, instead of having a standard procedure that a loaded bus must make all stops even though there is an immediate trailer, maybe this wouldn't be necessary. But it shows that someone with possibly more influence than trainman has recognized the problem.

[RIPTA42]

When was the last time you saw a bus turned back short ????

Sunday. A late eastbound 66 was turned back at McClurg.

[Busjack]

I was trying to use BusFinder on the search for 8000s, but it turns out that the official Bus Tracker isn't showing any buses or arrival times, so I wonder what's up.

[BusHunter]

it's working now

[BusHunter]

I forgot to mention yesterday that I didn't see any #39 buses on bustracker even though it has been stated that service has started.

http://www.dnainfo.com/chicago/20150304/oakland/cta-testing-expanded-weekend-hours-for-route-39-buses

By the looks of the schedule with 27 minute headways and 37 minutes end to end, it sounds like they are running two buses. Maybe they were all ghost buses when I was looking.

http://www.transitchicago.com/assets/1/bus_schedules/39.pdf

[jajuan]

I forgot to mention yesterday that I didn't see any #39 buses on bustracker even though it has been stated that service has started.

http://www.dnainfo.com/chicago/20150304/oakland/cta-testing-expanded-weekend-hours-for-route-39-buses

By the looks of the schedule with 27 minute headways and 37 minutes end to end, it sounds like they are running two buses. Maybe they were all ghost buses when I was looking.

http://www.transitchicago.com/assets/1/bus_schedules/39.pdf

Make that 27 to 30 minute headways, but either way it does sound like weekend service is being done with only two buses as you suspect.

[busfan2847]

Make that 27 to 30 minute headways, but either way it does sound like weekend service is being done with only two buses as you suspect.

It has to be three buses. The first bus leaves 38th/St Louis at 8.00am reaches Lake Park at 8:37 leaving at 8:41 > St Louis at 9:12.

This would then be the 9:19 from St Louis. Buses leave St Louis at 8:00am, 8:26am, 8:52am then 9:19am.

If you follow any of the subsequent journeys they also get back to St Louis in time for the third departure.