Create Your Own CTA Line

[BrownLineTrainToTheLoop]

You can make any line you want, as long as it is logical. You can also modify current lines.

I'll start:

Cermak/22nd Line

Color: Havent Decided yet

Stops:

1. Desplaines
2. Harlem 
3. Oak Park
4. Ridgeland
5. Austin
6. Central
7. 54th/Cermak 
8. Cicero
9. Kostner
10. Pulaski
11. Central Park
12. Kedzie
13. California
14. Western
15. Damen
16. Ashland
17. Racine
18. Halsted
19. Canal
20. State St (Connect to Cermak-Chinatown and Cermak-McCormick Pl)

 

[ChicagoNova]

Harlem--Oak Park--Ridgeland--Austin--Central--54th/Cermak--Cicero--Kostner--Pulaski--Central Park--Kedzie--California--Western--Damen--18th--Roosevelt--Polk--Racine Transfer to Blue Line)--UIC-Halsted--Clinton--LaSalle--Jackson--Monroe--Washington--Clark/Lake--Grand/Milwaukee--Chicago/Milwaukee--Division/Milwaukee--Damen (Transfer to Blue Line to O'Hare)--Then on the branch which is currently a walk path: Western--California--Humbolt--Kimball--Lawndale (or Central Park)--Pulaski--Kostner--Grand/Cicero--Laramie--Central--Austin--Narragansett--Oak Park--Harlem/Grand

[artthouwill]

2 hours ago, ChicagoNova said:

Harlem--Oak Park--Ridgeland--Austin--Central--54th/Cermak--Cicero--Kostner--Pulaski--Central Park--Kedzie--California--Western--Damen--18th--Roosevelt--Polk--Racine Transfer to Blue Line)--UIC-Halsted--Clinton--LaSalle--Jackson--Monroe--Washington--Clark/Lake--Grand/Milwaukee--Chicago/Milwaukee--Division/Milwaukee--Damen (Transfer to Blue Line to O'Hare)--Then on the branch which is currently a walk path: Western--California--Humbolt--Kimball--Lawndale (or Central Park)--Pulaski--Kostner--Grand/Cicero--Laramie--Central--Austin--Narragansett--Oak Park--Harlem/Grand

I had floated this routtibf before, except my northern terminal was Diversey and Narragansett  am*Brickyard) and my southern or western terminal was N Riverside Mall.

[strictures]

Howard, then Asbury---Touhy/Lawndale [following the former Weber Line]---Devon---Peterson---Foster---Lawrence---Montrose transfer to Blue]---Irving Park---[now on the Belt Ry. ROW]Addison---Belmont---Fullerton---North---Chicago---Madison---Roosevelt---Cermak---31st---39th---47th---Midway---Ford City---[then follow the RR ROW along 75th]---Pulaski---Kedzie---California---Western---Ashland---Halsted---79th/Dan Ryan---87th/Dan Ryan---95th/Dan Ryan

[artthouwill]

1 hour ago, strictures said:

Howard, then Asbury---Touhy/Lawndale [following the former Weber Line]---Devon---Peterson---Foster---Lawrence---Montrose transfer to Blue]---Irving Park---[now on the Belt Ry. ROW]Addison---Belmont---Fullerton---North---Chicago---Madison---Roosevelt---Cermak---31st---39th---47th---Midway---Ford City---[then follow the RR ROW along 75th]---Pulaski---Kedzie---California---Western---Ashland---Halsted---79th/Dan Ryan---87th/Dan Ryan---95th/Dan Ryan

Kind of a cross between  a crosstown expressway route and a proposed "Circle Line" that would have run near the Western Ave corridor rather than the Cicero Ave corridor you propose.  It definitely provides crosstown service without going through downtown and would connect with every rail line except the Green Line and possibly the Pink Line. 

[strictures]

I totally forgot about the Green & Pink Line connections.  Those would take some very long walkways from the Cicero Ave, stations on those lines to connect to the Belt Ry ROW, unless the proposed line was jogged west to connect.

[ChicagoNova]

As for the Green Line, I would extend it down to Blue Island, IL via the current route between Harlem & Garfield, then have it go further south, stopping at 63rd, then further down south, making a turn wide enough to continue going 55 m.p.h., connecting to a South Chicago leg following the track that parallel South Chicago/I-90, stopping at King Drive--Cottage Grove--75th, then winding over to the tracks currently run on by the ME tracks, stopping at 79th--83rd--87th--91st--95th-Chicago State University--103rd--107th--111th--115th--Michigan--Stewart--Halsted--Racine--Ashland--127th--Blue Island.

[NewFlyerMCI]

29 minutes ago, ChicagoNova said:

As for the Green Line, I would extend it down to Blue Island, IL via the current route between Harlem & Garfield, then have it go further south, stopping at 63rd, then further down south, making a turn wide enough to continue going 55 m.p.h., connecting to a South Chicago leg following the track that parallel South Chicago/I-90, stopping at King Drive--Cottage Grove--75th, then winding over to the tracks currently run on by the ME tracks, stopping at 79th--83rd--87th--91st--95th-Chicago State University--103rd--107th--111th--115th--Michigan--Stewart--Halsted--Racine--Ashland--127th--Blue Island.

Ever since the Red Line was created, the Green Line has lost ridership due to people opting to stay on the bus an extra 5 minutes for faster access downtown and to the north side. Those who live over east enough, opt for the J14 & 6 (and the 26 & 28) instead, routes that can, traffic willing, get downtown in 20 or less minutes once they hit the expressway. I don't see how this proposal will attract new riders, or convince existing ones to take advantage of it, as opposed to maintaining existing Red Line transfers. For instance, if I'm at Halsted/119th, how would I get downtown faster via this extended Green Line vs the 352 or 359 to 95th? Or eventually the Red Line South Extension. Same thing goes for 75th/South Chicago, how is this faster than taking the 75 to either 79th Red Line (probably around the same amount of time) or the J14 (definitely faster). The only people I see taking this are people who live minutes walking distance from a station or those who need access to the west side (and a lot more people go N/S than W/S and vice versa).

The current frequency also calls this into question, since 75th to Blue Island can see service anywhere from 40-120 minutes currently and the Blue Island branch doesn't even have Sunday service. Do these stations really need a train even every 20-27 minutes (assuming this is still a branch of Green Line service, not a combined southern routing)?

[artthouwill]

41 minutes ago, ChicagoNova said:

As for the Green Line, I would extend it down to Blue Island, IL via the current route between Harlem & Garfield, then have it go further south, stopping at 63rd, then further down south, making a turn wide enough to continue going 55 m.p.h., connecting to a South Chicago leg following the track that parallel South Chicago/I-90, stopping at King Drive--Cottage Grove--75th, then winding over to the tracks currently run on by the ME tracks, stopping at 79th--83rd--87th--91st--95th-Chicago State University--103rd--107th--111th--115th--Michigan--Stewart--Halsted--Racine--Ashland--127th--Blue Island.

Honestly,  I don't see anyone south of 75th or even 63rd riding this route.  There would be way too many stops.  No one really rides the ME Kensington Local/Blue Island route now.    A bus ride and a transfer to the Red Line seems infinitely faster.  

However,  a continuation along S. CHICAGO  stopping at 79th/Stony Island,  87th, 92nd/Commercial,  Ewing,  then 108th and the Indiana Toll Rd and finally ending at 112th and Ave O would tap into an unserved market. The only question is what to do with the current two branches?  Do we eliminate them altogether or do we turn them into shuttles, feeding the main line at a new 58th St transfer station or stub tracks at Garfield, turning one or both platforms into Island platforms?

 

[NewFlyerMCI]

35 minutes ago, artthouwill said:

Honestly,  I don't see anyone south of 75th or even 63rd riding this route.  There would be way too many stops.  No one really rides the ME Kensington Local/Blue Island route now.    A bus ride and a transfer to the Red Line seems infinitely faster.  

However,  a continuation along S. CHICAGO  stopping at 79th/Stony Island,  87th, 92nd/Commercial,  Ewing,  then 108th and the Indiana Toll Rd and finally ending at 112th and Ave O would tap into an unserved market. The only question is what to do with the current two branches?  Do we eliminate them altogether or do we turn them into shuttles, feeding the main line at a new 58th St transfer station or stub tracks at Garfield, turning one or both platforms into Island platforms?

 

I agree on the point of it being too many stops. That's part of the reason people take the Red Line over the Green Line now.

Is it really un(der)served? The 30, 26 and 100 being here currently makes me feel like there wouldn't be much need for this as a rail line. As we discussed earlier last week, the 30 doesn't get much ridership north of 83rd and the 26 and 100 don't run outside of rush hour. For this, we could simply switch the southern terminuses of the 30 & the 100 at 106th/Ewing and that would probably better serve the area once you adjust the running hours.

[artthouwill]

40 minutes ago, NewFlyerMCI said:

I agree on the point of it being too many stops. That's part of the reason people take the Red Line over the Green Line now.

Is it really un(der)served? The 30, 26 and 100 being here currently makes me feel like there wouldn't be much need for this as a rail line. As we discussed earlier last week, the 30 doesn't get much ridership north of 83rd and the 26 and 100 don't run outside of rush hour. For this, we could simply switch the southern terminuses of the 30 & the 100 at 106th/Ewing and that would probably better serve the area once you adjust the running hours.

In the sense of rail service,  yes.  While you can make an argument to shorter that proposal to 92nd,  though I think a rail yard could be built at 108th or 112th, the speed if one seat ride service through that area and the capabilities of transfers that the express  and other routes can't provide makes this a cheaper but solid idea.   Riders around 79th and Stony who would normally ride to the Red Lune and ride to any point north of 63rd to Roosevelt  or transfer to a Loop or subway rail would potentially eliminate either a ride or paid transfer.  If fmthe city can develop the site of the USS plant, there are organic opportunities to grow ridership.  Access to rail service can contribute to that growth.

[BusHunter]

Probably the best thing they could come up with is a crosstown service to link all lines. You would be surprised how many people ride downtown just to transfer across town. If money was no object, I would build a line from lake cook rd down to the yellow line Dempster, then proceed down the crosstown routing at knox. Have transfers at all the lines swing around the SW side by ford city heading towards 79th red line. Could you imagine how mobile that would make our city? It would be a line for all rail lines, all neighborhoods, all ethnicities. For a little bonus, maybe an extension to gurnee mills/great america could really hammer it home. The extension could be a metra electric line or they could even go down to Dempster cause lake cook is getting far out for cta.

[BusHunter]

Also I'd get rid of the color lines. The lines are bland they have no flavor. I like the old way. Dan Ryan Garfield pk, Howard, ravenswood. That gives the lines character and personality. They could still be colors but the neighborhoods they serve would be their official names. The dan ryan red line, the ohare blue line, the midway orange line. Like that.

[NewFlyerMCI]

15 minutes ago, BusHunter said:

Also I'd get rid of the color lines. The lines are bland they have no flavor. I like the old way. Dan Ryan Garfield pk, Howard, ravenswood. That gives the lines character and personality. They could still be colors but the neighborhoods they serve would be their official names. The dan ryan red line, the ohare blue line, the midway orange line. Like that.

Absolutely not. That would be way too convoluted, and three of the examples you just gave aren't even neighborhoods (although I see the point you're trying to make). The colors are easy to remember, easy to identify, and they treat all the communities they serve fairly. Imo, naming by destination or location only works with small subway systems. To my knowledge, every subway system in the US with more than 3 lines operating full time does a color, number and/or line designation, not destination and/or location. And it's easier for bus announcements as well, such as with Addison Brown, Addison Blue & Addison Blue vs Addison Ravenswood, Addison NSML, Addison Kennedy for example.

[strictures]

6 hours ago, ChicagoNova said:

As for the Green Line, I would extend it down to Blue Island, IL via the current route between Harlem & Garfield, then have it go further south, stopping at 63rd, then further down south, making a turn wide enough to continue going 55 m.p.h., connecting to a South Chicago leg following the track that parallel South Chicago/I-90, stopping at King Drive--Cottage Grove--75th, then winding over to the tracks currently run on by the ME tracks, stopping at 79th--83rd--87th--91st--95th-Chicago State University--103rd--107th--111th--115th--Michigan--Stewart--Halsted--Racine--Ashland--127th--Blue Island.

The original plan for the South Side Main Line in the 1960s was this:  Once the Dan Ryan Line was running, they were going to move it to the IC Mainline to Kensington & then demolish the elevated line, by using two of the ten tracks on the IC ROW.  Why that never happened is a mystery, but money, Richard J. Daley's indifference to mass transit & his numbskull son's rehab of what's now the Green line, instead of following the original plan, in an attempt to get black votes, by buying off a lot of South Side black ministers, is why.

[artthouwill]

7 minutes ago, strictures said:

The original plan for the South Side Main Line in the 1960s was this:  Once the Dan Ryan Line was running, they were going to move it to the IC Mainline to Kensington & then demolish the elevated line, by using two of the ten tracks on the IC ROW.  Why that never happened is a mystery, but money, Richard J. Daley's indifference to mass transit & his numbskull son's rehab of what's now the Green line, instead of following the original plan, in an attempt to get black votes, by buying off a lot of South Side black ministers, is why.

I remember multiple tracks on the IC mainline from 43rd south.   It would have been perfect except Englewood would have lost its direct line.  

[BusHunter]

4 hours ago, NewFlyerMCI said:

Absolutely not. That would be way too convoluted, and three of the examples you just gave aren't even neighborhoods (although I see the point you're trying to make). The colors are easy to remember, easy to identify, and they treat all the communities they serve fairly. Imo, naming by destination or location only works with small subway systems. To my knowledge, every subway system in the US with more than 3 lines operating full time does a color, number and/or line designation, not destination and/or location. And it's easier for bus announcements as well, such as with Addison Brown, Addison Blue & Addison Blue vs Addison Ravenswood, Addison NSML, Addison Kennedy for example.

Yeah but to a tourist, telling them this color to that color, you might as well speak swahili. How do you go to Englewood from ohare easy take the blue line to the green line. Which side you go to is 50 percent correct plus if you dont know 63rd/ashland is in Englewood you might just ride to harlem/lake. 

So what do you say for Western/blue. Blue where? Western has multiple blue line stops. How do you discern Addison red line Wrigley from Addison blue. Hopefully our tourists all have working cell phones or have maps or they will be lost. Theres always uber. 

[NewFlyerMCI]

1 hour ago, BusHunter said:

Yeah but to a tourist, telling them this color to that color, you might as well speak swahili. How do you go to Englewood from ohare easy take the blue line to the green line. Which side you go to is 50 percent correct plus if you dont know 63rd/ashland is in Englewood you might just ride to harlem/lake. 

So what do you say for Western/blue. Blue where? Western has multiple blue line stops. How do you discern Addison red line Wrigley from Addison blue. Hopefully our tourists all have working cell phones or have maps or they will be lost. Theres always uber. 

As someone who used to speak Swahili, it's not that complicated. In fact, you just said it, "take the Blue Line to the Green Line". 9 out of 10 people, when giving directions to the uninitiated, are going to denote the correct side and direction to take. Station managers exist for this purpose as well, alongside easy to understand maps, in part because the lines are colored and don't have to waste space on labels. Setting aside the fact that 98% of anyone going to Englewood from O'Hare is likely to be the opposite of a tourist, most tourists these days do indeed have access to Google/Apple Maps, which are easier to understand, in part because of the use of colors. This system also works elsewhere just as easily, such as in ATL or DC.

Western & Harlem are odd ducks, each with two stops on the Blue Line. Fortunately, from this tourist perspective (since this wouldn't really be an issue for locals), there's only really 1 of these 4 stops they're going to (Western-O'Hare) and both people and apps giving directions are generally clear about which one to go to (google maps give you the direction of travel, final station and intermediate stops). How can you tell apart the streets that have multiple stops on different lines? Well, you once again said the answer: There's California & then there's California. Also, there's California. All distinct from each other because of the colors, and unlike Western & Harlem, each line that stops at that street only has one stop on the street. Additionally, the announcements add a further level of distinction (Ashland/Lake vs Ashland/63rd)

Changing the lines from colors to destinations isn't really going to be of any benefit to tourists anyway. Outside of coming/going from the airports, I'd wager at least 75% tourists taking CTA aren't going past Logan Square, Belmont R/P/B, Ashland/Lake, IMD, Western or Damen (Pink), Sox-35th, 35th-BZ-IIT. Of this catchment area, no stops repeat on the same line and 4 of these station are unique by name. Colors for the lines have served CTA just fine for years, and will continue to do so

[BusHunter]

And it will continue to be the same boring system with trains that are duplicates of each other. No character, just cookie cutter routes cookie cutter service. Besides the tourists should be worried about the high crime. Better to take uber. 

[strictures]

14 hours ago, artthouwill said:

I remember multiple tracks on the IC mainline from 43rd south.   It would have been perfect except Englewood would have lost its direct line.  

It was 10 tracks from Roosevelt to Kensington, the widest railroad mainline in the world. 

Four tracks under wire for the IC & South Shore commuter service, two tracks for the IC's long distance trains & four tracks for the IC's freight trains. 

Now it's six tracks, the four under wire & two freight tracks.

[NewFlyerMCI]

2 hours ago, BusHunter said:

And it will continue to be the same boring system with trains that are duplicates of each other. No character, just cookie cutter routes cookie cutter service. Besides the tourists should be worried about the high crime. Better to take uber. 

I truly fail to see how the CTA is boring, especially compared to other subway systems in the US bar NYC. I can't think of another subway system in the US that has a Pink Line. Or a Brown Line for that matter (seeing as NYC's are called the J/Z). Cookie cutter service would be something like MARTA. Or Miami-Dade Subway. Not the CTA.

And now you're just fearmongering, taking the CTA is not some high-risk, life-averse activity than just walking around, especially if you're only counting the areas where the tourists are going (where it might actually be safer than the rest of the system). Something like seeing a sleeping homeless person is not the same as being robbed at gunpoint. Of course it's not going to be 100% safe to use at all times, but if people were holding out for that threshold, no one would ride. That sort of rhetoric only fuels a downward spiral that would cause the CTA to get worse.

[ChicagoNova]

On 4/14/2021 at 12:28 PM, artthouwill said:

Honestly,  I don't see anyone south of 75th or even 63rd riding this route.  There would be way too many stops.  No one really rides the ME Kensington Local/Blue Island route now.    A bus ride and a transfer to the Red Line seems infinitely faster.  

However,  a continuation along S. CHICAGO  stopping at 79th/Stony Island,  87th, 92nd/Commercial,  Ewing,  then 108th and the Indiana Toll Rd and finally ending at 112th and Ave O would tap into an unserved market. The only question is what to do with the current two branches?  Do we eliminate them altogether or do we turn them into shuttles, feeding the main line at a new 58th St transfer station or stub tracks at Garfield, turning one or both platforms into Island platforms?

 

That would be a good idea, or have the Green Line continue further east after stopping at Indiana, following what used to be the Kenwood Branch to 42nd Place, stopping at South Park--Vincennes--Cottage Grove--Ellis/Lake Park--42nd Place, then branching over to follow the MED tracks to 93rd/South Chicago, stopping at 47th--Hyde Park--55th--59th-University of Chicago--63rd--Stony Island--Jeffrey--South Shore--75th--79th--83rd--87th--93rd/South Chicago.

[NewFlyerMCI]

41 minutes ago, ChicagoNova said:

That would be a good idea, or have the Green Line continue further east after stopping at Indiana, following what used to be the Kenwood Branch to 42nd Place, stopping at South Park--Vincennes--Cottage Grove--Ellis/Lake Park--42nd Place, then branching over to follow the MED tracks to 93rd/South Chicago, stopping at 47th--Hyde Park--55th--59th-University of Chicago--63rd--Stony Island--Jeffrey--South Shore--75th--79th--83rd--87th--93rd/South Chicago.

South Park? And Vincennes goes past 69th?

[Anthony Devera]

2 hours ago, NewFlyerMCI said:

South Park? And Vincennes goes past 69th?

King Drive used to be called South Parkway. There's a stretch of Vincennes between Browning (close to 35th) and 50th. There used to be a station at Vincennes on the Kenwood branch.

3 hours ago, ChicagoNova said:

That would be a good idea, or have the Green Line continue further east after stopping at Indiana, following what used to be the Kenwood Branch to 42nd Place, stopping at South Park--Vincennes--Cottage Grove--Ellis/Lake Park--42nd Place, then branching over to follow the MED tracks to 93rd/South Chicago, stopping at 47th--Hyde Park--55th--59th-University of Chicago--63rd--Stony Island--Jeffrey--South Shore--75th--79th--83rd--87th--93rd/South Chicago.

I feel like this is what should have been done back in 1957 or so when the Kenwood branch was still intact. This would have given Hyde Park and South Shore a better connection to IIT and various other destinations in Bronzeville. For the stations, maybe there only needs to be a station at Cottage Grove. However, since then some houses have been built where the old Kenwood branch used to be, so such a proposal is not as feasible anymore.

If such a line were to be built, I wonder how the grade crossings on the South Chicago branch would be dealt with. Would third rail simply be placed and then have barriers placed on the sides, or would the line be run with pantographs, like how the Yellow line was in the past? I doubt there would be an elevated structure above 71st and Exchange; I believe someone recently posted that there are regulations that no longer allow building elevated structures above streets.

[Tcmetro]

I believe when the L was originally constructed, a majority of the property owners had to agree to allow it to be built above the street. It was easier to just purchase the ROW and build in the alley. I don't think the CTA would face the same challenges today (because it's now a governmental entity), but there hasn't been a serious proposal to build anything like that in decades anyways.