Pace bus Garage and routes

[Mr.cta85]

I was just wondering if anybody knew what routes come out of which garage concerning pace. 

[artthouwill]

12 minutes ago, Mr.cta85 said:

I was just wondering if anybody knew what routes come out of which garage concerning pace. 

Generally, 208 - 299 are Pace NW ( though some might be shared with North or North Shore).

300 - 340 are Pace West

340 - 375 Pace South

375 - 399 Pace SW ( some UPS routes may be operated by Pace West  or Pace South)

500 - 519 Pace Heritage ( Joliet, soon to be Plainfield)

520 - 539 Pace Fox Valley  ( North Aurora )

540 - 559 Pace River *( Elgin).  Some supplements from a Dundee facility.

560 - 579 Oace North ( Waukegan).

600, 603, 605, 610 River

606 Pace Northwest

755, 850. 851, 855 Pace Heritage

 

[FG6834]

27 minutes ago, artthouwill said:

Generally, 208 - 299 are Pace NW ( though some might be shared with North or North Shore).

300 - 340 are Pace West

340 - 375 Pace South

375 - 399 Pace SW ( some UPS routes may be operated by Pace West  or Pace South)

500 - 519 Pace Heritage ( Joliet, soon to be Plainfield)

520 - 539 Pace Fox Valley  ( North Aurora )

540 - 559 Pace River *( Elgin).  Some supplements from a Dundee facility.

560 - 579 Oace North ( Waukegan).

600, 603, 605, 610 River

606 Pace Northwest

755, 850. 851, 855 Pace Heritage

 

559 is operated by Fox Valley.

606 is operated by Northwest and River.

In addition, 421 North Shore.

422 -423 both operated by Northwest and North Shore.

Also 626 North Shore

[artthouwill]

33 minutes ago, FG6834 said:

559 is operated by Fox Valley.

606 is operated by Northwest and River.

In addition, 421 North Shore.

422 -423 both operated by Northwest and North Shore.

Also 626 North Shore

Yes there are exceptions,  but GENERALLY those route numbers i listed are operated by those garages

272 is shared by Northwest and North.

696 Pace Northwest

The 600 routes were once operated by contractors.  These includ the 600, 606, 610, 616, and 626.   Other 600 routes , while sill contractor operated were feeder routes.  

[Erin Mishkin Jr.]

You’re also missing routes 410 to 412 operated by village of niles and 471/472 operated by village of highland park

[Busjack]

5 hours ago, Erin Mishkin Jr. said:

You’re also missing routes 410 to 412 operated by village of niles and 471/472 operated by village of highland park

Basically 400s were municipal routes. 421-423 were Wilbus, and 461-464 were Downers Grove.

[renardo870]

On 8/23/2022 at 9:18 AM, artthouwill said:

Generally, 208 - 299 are Pace NW ( though some might be shared with North or North Shore).

300 - 340 are Pace West

340 - 375 Pace South

375 - 399 Pace SW ( some UPS routes may be operated by Pace West  or Pace South)

500 - 519 Pace Heritage ( Joliet, soon to be Plainfield)

520 - 539 Pace Fox Valley  ( North Aurora )

540 - 559 Pace River *( Elgin).  Some supplements from a Dundee facility.

560 - 579 Oace North ( Waukegan).

600, 603, 605, 610 River

606 Pace Northwest

755, 850. 851, 855 Pace Heritage

 

676, 68x,714, 722 & 802 : Pace Fox Valley Routes

801 & 803 : Pace River Routes

832 and 834 : Pace Heritage Routes 

[artthouwill]

2 hours ago, renardo870 said:

676, 68x,714, 722 & 802 : Pace Fox Valley Routes

801 & 803 : Pace River Routes

832 and 834 : Pace Heritage Routes 

Correct.   My intention wasn't to list every Pace route and its garage, but to give a general idea of where the majority of the routes come from.  I believe there is a list somewhere that's more specific.

[MetroShadow]

On 8/23/2022 at 7:18 AM, artthouwill said:

Generally, 208 - 299 are Pace NW ( though some might be shared with North or North Shore).

300 - 340 are Pace West

340 - 375 Pace South

375 - 399 Pace SW ( some UPS routes may be operated by Pace West  or Pace South)

500 - 519 Pace Heritage ( Joliet, soon to be Plainfield)

520 - 539 Pace Fox Valley  ( North Aurora )

540 - 559 Pace River *( Elgin).  Some supplements from a Dundee facility.

560 - 579 Oace North ( Waukegan).

600, 603, 605, 610 River

606 Pace Northwest

755, 850. 851, 855 Pace Heritage

 

600/606 series at one point were blocked by River and NW, 610 was mostly NW. 

604 was NW

608 was West

616 was mostly NW (one trip might have been blocked with River)

[Busjack]

21 hours ago, artthouwill said:

I believe there is a list somewhere that's more specific.

    There's one method that now takes some work, but is official. Go to pacebus.com, select a route, and look at the pdf schedule.                           

[Mr.cta85]

Here’s another question is pace south both south Holland and Markham collectively? I’m asking because I want to know which routes come out of which garage.

[Busjack]

23 minutes ago, Mr.cta85 said:

Here’s another question is pace south both south Holland and Markham collectively? I’m asking because I want to know which routes come out of which garage.

South Holland is just the acceptance facility and electronics shop (will move to Markham, but not there yet). Sort of similar to 7801 S. Vincennes Ave.

[busfan2847]

Excluding suspended routes. Shared routes have other garages in brackets.

Pace North West:  100 Milwaukee Pulse, 208, 209, 210(NS), 215(NS), 221, 223, 225, 226, 230, 234, 237, 240, 241, 250, 270, 272(N), 290, 422(NS), 423(NS), 604, 606(R), 697

Pace North Shore:  210(NW),  213, 215(NW), 421, 422(NW), 423(NW), 626

Pace North: 272(NW), 561, 562, 563, 564, 565, 566, 568, 569, 570, 571, 572, 573, 574

Pace West:  301, 203, 303, 305, 307, 308, 309, 310, 311, 313, 314, 315, 316, 317, 318, 319, 322, 330, 331, 332, 379(SW), 390(SW), 392, 776

Pace South:  348, 349, 350, 352, 353, 354, 356, 357, 358, 359, 360, 361, 364, 366, 367, 395(SW), 890

Pace South West:  379(W), 381, 383, 384, 385, 386, 390(W), 395(S), 768, 769

Pace Heritage: 501, 504, 505, 507, 508, 509, 511, 512, 755, 832, 834, 850, 851, 855

Pace Fox Valley:  524, 530, 533, 540, 559, 714, 722, 802

Pace River:  541, 542, 543, 546, 547, 548, 549, 550, 552, 554, 600, 603, 605, 606(NW), 607, 801, 803

Village of Niles:  410, 411, 412

Village of Highland Park:  471, 472, 475

First Student - Joliet:  510

First Transit - Grayslake:  590 Round Lake On Demand

First Transit - Glen Ellyn:  591 Wheaton/Winfield On Demand, Vernon Hills/Mundelein On Demand, 598 Naperville/Aurora On Demand, 905 Shuamburg Trolley

First Transit - McHenry: 806, 807, 808

River Call n Ride:  592 St Charles/Geneva On Demand, 596 Batavia On Demand, 597 South East Aurora On Demand, 599 Hoffman Estates On Demand

MV Niles:  594 Arlington Heights/Rolling Meadows On Demand, 811 Rosemont Entertainment Circular

MV Batavia:  711, 715

 

[renardo870]

4 hours ago, busfan2847 said:

Excluding suspended routes. Shared routes have other garages in brackets.

Pace North West:  100 Milwaukee Pulse, 208, 209, 210(NS), 215(NS), 221, 223, 225, 226, 230, 234, 237, 240, 241, 250, 270, 272(N), 290, 422(NS), 423(NS), 604, 606(R), 697

Pace North Shore:  210(NW),  213, 215(NW), 421, 422(NW), 423(NW), 626

Pace North: 272(NW), 561, 562, 563, 564, 565, 566, 568, 569, 570, 571, 572, 573, 574

Pace West:  301, 203, 303, 305, 307, 308, 309, 310, 311, 313, 314, 315, 316, 317, 318, 319, 322, 330, 331, 332, 379(SW), 390(SW), 776

Pace South:  348, 349, 350, 352, 353, 354, 356, 357, 358, 359, 360, 361, 364, 366, 367, 395(SW), 890

Pace South West:  379(W), 381, 383, 384, 385, 386, 390(W), 395(S), 768, 769

Pace Heritage: 501, 504, 505, 507, 508, 509, 511, 512, 755, 832, 834, 850, 851, 855

Pace Fox Valley:  524, 530, 533, 540, 559, 714, 722, 802

Pace River:  541, 542, 543, 546, 547, 548, 549, 550, 552, 554, 600, 603, 605, 606(NW), 607, 801, 803

Village of Niles:  410, 411, 412

Village of Highland Park:  471, 472, 475

First Student - Joliet:  510

First Transit - Grayslake:  590 Round Lake On Demand

First Transit - Glen Ellyn:  591 Wheaton/Winfield On Demand, Vernon Hills/Mundelein On Demand, 598 Naperville/Aurora On Demand, 905 Shuamburg Trolley

First Transit - McHenry: 806, 807, 808

River Call n Ride:  592 St Charles/Geneva On Demand, 596 Batavia On Demand, 597 South East Aurora On Demand, 599 Hoffman Estates On Demand

MV Niles:  594 Arlington Heights/Rolling Meadows On Demand, 811 Rosemont Entertainment Circular

MV Batavia:  711, 715

 

Isn't 392 out of Pace West?

[busfan2847]

19 hours ago, renardo870 said:

Isn't 392 out of Pace West?

Yes missed 392 at Pace West

[andrethebusman]

On 8/24/2022 at 10:41 AM, Busjack said:

Basically 400s were municipal routes. 421-423 were Wilbus, and 461-464 were Downers Grove.

In the original scheme of things in 1976, 401-402 Bensenville, 411 Niles, 421-423 Wilmette, 431-434 Wheeling, 441 Melrose Park, 451-456 Homewood,  461-468 Downers Grove, 471-473 Highland Park. 600s were to be train feeders, only 601-603 Schaumburg, 611 Mundelein, 621-622 Northbrook existed at the time. The great feeder expansion started 1978.

[renardo870]

Now that Plainfield Garage is online, what is going to happen to Heritage? Are they going to sell the property or use the facility for something else?

[Busjack]

On 10/22/2022 at 5:27 PM, renardo870 said:

So besides all of the Heritage routes being transferred to Plainfield, are any other routes going to move there by the next pick, like 559?

559 is still running FV buses (2627, 20312 on tracker).

Also, Pace tends not to transfer runs between garages, apparently because garages have different unions (ATU or Teamsters) and different contracts.

[renardo870]

1 hour ago, Busjack said:

559 is still running FV buses (2627, 20312 on tracker).

Also, Pace tends not to transfer runs between garages, apparently because garages have different unions (ATU or Teamsters) and different contracts.

I wasn't aware that FV and Heritage could be operated by different unions and different contracts. Can we get a list of garages and unions they fall under? 

[Busjack]

3 hours ago, renardo870 said:

I wasn't aware that FV and Heritage could be operated by different unions and different contracts. Can we get a list of garages and unions they fall under? 

It can be looked up, but:

• ATU Local 241 has N, NS, SW, and W.
• Teamsters Local 731 has NW
• Teamsters Local 330 has R
• Most of the rest of Pace is apparently ATU Local 1028.

On the Local 241 Pace page, there are links to each division"s agreement.

[andrethebusman]

241 got N apparently from the days it was affiliated with North Shore Line, NS as successor to Evanston Bus Co, W as successor to West Towns Bus Co, SW not sure, as Suburban Transit was not 241 as far as I know.

Evanston and West Towns of course go back to their affiliation with Chicago Rys (CSL).

[Busjack]

15 hours ago, andrethebusman said:

241 got N apparently from the days it was affiliated with North Shore Line, NS as successor to Evanston Bus Co, W as successor to West Towns Bus Co, SW not sure, as Suburban Transit was not 241 as far as I know.

Evanston and West Towns of course go back to their affiliation with Chicago Rys (CSL).

However, labor law doesn't work like that. While West can be traced back to C&WT, in general, employees must petition for a union, and the union must win a representation election or present enough signature cards to show majority support. That's described in an article on South drivers trying to get ATU 1028 recognized, and another on the Teamsters winning representation rights from ATU 1028 at Northwest.

It is inconceivable that NS workers just assumed that union that represented EBC, which went out of business 20 years earlier, or CCT, which went out of business some 85 years earlier, were stuck with that union. If NS is derived from anything, it was Nortran and Wilmette, the operations of which Pace absorbed shortly before opening the Evanston garage. CTA was, and still partially is, the successor of EBC, except for a couple of Nortran emergency routes.

[andrethebusman]

Unions tend to be inherited by successor operators, especially if former operator's employees are hired by new one. They are familiar with their local, know their local's leadership, and human nature being what it is, the known is preferable to the unknown. So yes there is a union election which more often than not the old union wins. 

Evanston Bus Co was the combination of three operations, Evanston Ry (pretty much an offshoot of CRys), Evanston Bus Co (a Northwestern Elevated affiliate), and Niles Center Transit (apparently unaffiliated with anything). The mystery would be why EBC ended up 241 and not 308, except most likely the bus side was non-union at the 1930s merger, while ERy was 241 already, so 241 was able to convince the bus drivers to join them.

[Busjack]

9 hours ago, andrethebusman said:

Unions tend to be inherited by successor operators, especially if former operator's employees are hired by new one. They are familiar with their local, know their local's leadership, and human nature being what it is, the known is preferable to the unknown. So yes there is a union election which more often than not the old union wins. 

Evanston Bus Co was the combination of three operations, Evanston Ry (pretty much an offshoot of CRys), Evanston Bus Co (a Northwestern Elevated affiliate), and Niles Center Transit (apparently unaffiliated with anything). The mystery would be why EBC ended up 241 and not 308, except most likely the bus side was non-union at the 1930s merger, while ERy was 241 already, so 241 was able to convince the bus drivers to join them.

As I noted, as a matter of labor law, this is inconceivable, especially in the NS case (why would someone vote in a union for a company that was out of business for 20 years if they transferred from Wilmette to a new Nortran garage?), and doesn't explaon why NW kicked out ATU for the Teamsters. There are explanations reflected in the articles I cited, such as NW being more militant (they called a strike a couple of years ago), and whether Pace employees thought Richard Jefferson was a help or a hindrance.

Your theory may hold some water, as CTA bought the assets of CRT, CRys, CCRC, and CMC, and the RTA bought the assets of WT and SSS, but in the case of South Suburban Safeway, there was a representation dispute 20 years later. And, to reiterate, nobody bought EBC. It;s equivalent to saying that Coach USA employees were stuck with the union that represented C&CD or HW&EC, both of which had similar demises to the Evanston companies.

Finally, in Chicago, 308 was the RT union, not the streetcar one. How a union groups its locals is its own internal concern.

[andrethebusman]

C&CDT failed for lack of riding in the 1970s. Local lines went first, 1972?, downtown service lasted later. Not a strike situation.

North Shore PACE is actually a successor to Wilbus, the Wilmette municipal operation that was non union as far as I know, with pieces of Nortran thrown in. 241 must have made a good presentation.

Companies do change unions, if the work force decides their current union is inadequately representing them. Rare, as it is a complicated process. 

Regarding 308, yes that is the rail union. But there is nothing that says 308 could not also represent drivers at a bus company. For instance, there are teamster locals representing workers at grocery stores, that have nothing to do with transportation. It comes down to who the workforce wants to represent them.