CTA's DE40LFs

[rmadisonwi]

Spoke with a New Flyer representative at a transit conference yesterday, and he said CTA's hybrid low floors are going on the production line as we speak. First one should be in Chicago by the end of this month or early next month.

[sw4400]

It seems like a little bit of a long wait to start an order of just 20 Hybrids which were part of the base order.  Maybe I'm just a little impatient to see these vehicles and hear feedback on how they are operating.  If they are going to be an actual part of this bus order(numerically speaking), they will probably(speculation here) have the last 20 numbers from 1410-1429.

BTW: Do you chicagobus members think these buses will be a permanent part of the roster until retirement or will they be like the 5900 series New Flyers?

[RIPTA42]

Fuel-cell buses were (and still are) experimental, and they require entirely different fuel from the diesel fleet. Hybrid-electric buses are in widespread use and use the same fuel; I think they'll stay around. I'm not surprised that they're being held off until the end of the order, though.

So, any speculation as to where they'll be assigned? :)

[MetroShadow]

Well, aren't they going with the additional 185 still coming into the CTA, and on top of that they just announced that they picked up with first option of 200?

So pretty much, they're finishing the first set before they give us the DE40LF's, and later the add-ons and the first option thereafter...or am I wrong?

[Busjack]

Well, aren't they going with the additional 185 still coming into the CTA, and on top of that they just announced that they picked up with first option of 200?

So pretty much, they're finishing the first set before they give us the DE40LF's, and later the add-ons and the first option thereafter...or am I wrong?

The orders were:

• Base: 265, with the last 20 to be hybrid
  
• Option 1: 185
  
• Option 2: 200
  

Since the spokesperson has said that 276 have been received, that means that we are into Option 1, without the hybrid part of the base order having been delivered yet.

The press releases on the order, such as one of 11/8/05 say "CTA will be able to evaluate the performance of the environmentally friendly vehicles in Chicago’s extreme weather conditions. Performance results will help determine if hybrid buses are suitable as future additions to CTA’s fleet." I thought I read elsewhere that the evaluation would take one year, but. in any event, it won't be over while the commitment to purchase 650 is in effect.

This also demonstrates a couple of other points:

• Frank has apparently gone back on his policy, announced with the Nova order, that to avoid having the whole fleet reach retirement age at once, CTA was staggering its orders to about 150 buses per year. That is why there was a gap in the delivery of Novas.
  
• If the garage allocation was based on getting 650 buses instead of 265, surmises about what garages will get them are out the window.
  
• Although both complain about the lack of a capital program, and the diversion of capital funds to operating, neither CTA nor Pace is very forthcoming about the source of the funds for new buses, although in this case the CTA said it was bond money.
  

[Busjack]

So, any speculation as to where they'll be assigned?

The speculation was Kedzie, because its order of 1000s was a bit short. Also it would make sense to run them on downtown routes, with a lot of chance for regenerative braking (but since when has CTA done what makes sense?).

Also, since CTA is receiving option buses before the hybrid part of the base order, the old prediction of 1245-1264 is out the window, and I am predicting a separate series (maybe 7900 or 8000, now that 500, 1000, and 5000 have been spoken for, or 9000 as a tribute to the old trolley buses). However, I think definitely not in the 1000s. For instance, Toronto has placed its Orion VII hybrids in a separate series from the Orion VII diesels.

[trainman8119]

I would think that they would be different numbers anyway. Were not the 1600's different from the initial New Flyers because they were different in that they had single row seats. Then the old Fishbowls were split up because they had something different about them at the time (1000-1524...then 7400..7944...then 9000-9799). I guess that ended with the 5700's when that small amount 5740-5750 (ish) had the different engines. But then the new orders of Flxibles went to 6000 (I think they came in before the New Flyer low floors). And don't forget, the initial test fuel cells went out of the 5800 series to 5900.

The current New Flyer receipt has reached at least 280, since I have seen up to 1280 operating on 71st Street in recent days.

[Busjack]

Then the old Fishbowls were split up because they had something different about them at the time (1000-1524...then 7400..7944...then 9000-9799).

In the case of the fishbowls, there were 4 distinct orders (1972, 1974, 1975, and 1976). Since the numbering of the 1974 order of 545, if it would have started at 1525, would have run into the 2000 series of L cars, that wouldn't have worked. There wasn't much difference between the 1000s and 7400s, except that the last bunch of 7400s was designed for expressway service, and the last 10 or so were used on 40-O'Harexpress. I've heard several conflicting theories why the block started with 7400, either that they were received in 74 or there was some other equipment already numbered 7000 (but the latter, if true, couldn't have lasted long, given the 7000 series articulateds).

I agree about the 1600s and 5900s, and for that reason, my strongest bet is on 7900s. We'll know in 4 to 6 weeks.

[trainman8119]

I stumbled on a picture while web surfing from a company called Air Products, who won a contract in conjunction with Ballard in dealing with the fuel cell buses. There is a pic showing the back end of a bus. It is real hard to tell, but it looks like the number on the bus is either 1605 or 1805. I wish I could blow up the pic and get a better look at it. It is in the upper right side of the bus.

Check it out for yourself New Fuel Cell Bus. I don't know when this pic was taken, but the back end of the bus is different from anything I have seen recently.

[Busjack]

I blew it up using the Windows Picture and Fax viewer (right clicked on it, selected "Save Image As...," saved it to the desktop, and double clicked it), but there isn't enough resolution to make anything out. However, if the number is on the right side (i.e. opposite the blanked back window from the CTA logo), it could be 5900.

Doing the same in Paint Shop Pro, that part of the picture is pixalated out by 4:1 magnification. Thus, there really isn't any distinct number viewable at the resolution of the picture.

Similarly, while it looks like an Illinois municipal license plate, one can't make out the numbers on it. The sticker on the lower left side looks like what one normally sees on a CTA bus.

[sw4400]

I stumbled on a picture while web surfing from a company called Air Products, who won a contract in conjunction with Ballard in dealing with the fuel cell buses. There is a pic showing the back end of a bus. It is real hard to tell, but it looks like the number on the bus is either 1605 or 1805. I wish I could blow up the pic and get a better look at it. It is in the upper right side of the bus.

Check it out for yourself New Fuel Cell Bus. I don't know when this pic was taken, but the back end of the bus is different from anything I have seen recently.

While the bus does look different from the DLF's we have, I doubt it's the DELF's as the CTA logo is the old speedline one.  All new bus orders have the circular CTA logo.

[Busjack]

He wasn't talking about the hybrids, he was talking about one of the 3 (1996?) fuel cell buses. You know, the ones that got Belcaster fired.

[sw4400]

This information in the post makes me think trainman8119 was talking about the DELF's.

[geneking7320]

Hi All;

Tonight on Michigan Ave between 9:00pm and 9:30pm I saw CTA New Flyer DE40LF #801 working route 124 northbound for Navy Pier. The bus had stopped to board passengers between Lake and Randolph. A moment later bus DE40LF #800 working route 124 arrived heading southbound. The bus was quieter than the 1000's but the diesel engine is still audible. The roof pod appears higher than the a/c pod on the 5800's. Needless to say, I didn't have my camera with me.

Hopefully, Mr. Z will get pics real soon.

[jesi2282]

Cool, there finally here! I guess there being assigned to Kedzie then.

[trainman8119]

I am sorry I missed those operating. I left the loop around 7:15 via lower Wacker. Had I know those buses were running, I might have made it a point to stay above ground in the loop. I guess that clears up the numbering for the emission buses. Good catch !!!!!

[Busjack]

The bus was quieter than the 1000's but the diesel engine is still audible.

I wonder if one can tell if the first two are the series or parallel ones. The series ones should be more of a continuous hum, as the engine only charges the batteries (or one would think not in sync with how the bus accelerates) while the parallel goes through a conventional transmission, but still uses a smaller diesel engine.

[geneking7320]

IMHO it might be parallel. When bus 800 was pulling away the engine sounded as though the pitch varied with the rpm - that is , it did not sound constant. I was anticipating a constant diesel sound.This brings to mind the 55 foot MAN artics the CTA used to run. I believe there was small auxiliary engine running at constant rpm to power the a/c.

[pace2322]

Heres photos of 800 and 801. From today.

[rmadisonwi]

You beat me by just a couple of minutes. I was just about to post a link to my photos of 801.

http://rides.webshots.com/photo/2884721720...048480006AIWqWK

There are several more on my site as well (five Hybrid shots in total).

[geneking7320]

Yesterday (1/15/2007) around 5pm I saw bus #802 signed for route 127 laying over eastbound at the Roosevelt Green/Orange 'L' station.

Gene King

[RJL6000]

Yesterday (1/15/2007) around 5pm I saw bus #802 signed for route 127 laying over eastbound at the Roosevelt Green/Orange 'L' station.

Someone should update the 800-series page soon. Looks like a couple of buses of each type (800 and 900 series) will be assigned to each garage at different times. The 127, IIRC, is a 77th Garage route.

[Busjack]

The 127, IIRC, is a 77th Garage route.

Nope, unless there was another change after the West Side restructuring. See Posts 2861, 3056, and 3059.

[RJL6000]

Nope, unless there was another change after the West Side restructuring. See Posts 2861, 3056, and 3059.

I looked at the outdated run number list on another site.

What I put down previously was true - before June 18, 2006. Kedzie now runs #127.

So, bus 802 is still assigned to Kedzie Garage.

[rmadisonwi]

The fellow I spoke with from bus engineering said that the Hybrids would all go to Kedzie Garage. However, he never said they'd *stay* at Kedzie Garage. It seems a couple have been sent over to Archer and a couple to Chicago. I don't know if this is a long-term deal, or just a few weeks to try them out.