Academy/Pace operations.....

[qwantae]

The Orion Vis ride very nice but Im not too crazy about the look of the bus, I never really took to the the Orion low floor. The newer Orion model they have I do like, I rode one in Niagara Falls.

I really do hope that Pace will order Orion VII Generation soon in a future.

I've rode an Orion VIIs from Detroit to Windsor as a "Transit Windsor" Tunnel Bus, It rode real nice. Then I rode their 1987 GM Classic (Similar to Nova Classic) back to Detroit (my hometown), Canada still operates alot of 20 year old and older buses with some fishbowls.

[Busjack]

Academy might as well get some Orion Vs

Unless you meant VIs, Pace doesn't have any Vs to give them, and sure won't be procuring any.

And if you meant VIs, with their longitudinal seats and low seating capacity, I don't think the tollway riders would appreciate that either (although I remember standing on 355s when it was run with 5307s, to show how times and ridership have changed).

[Guest]

No wonder when I was at South Suburbs few times last week, rode 350 to Hammond then 364 entire route to Orland and i never seen none of those two (2309/2325), One of them was runnning daily on 364 before it left the fleet and I was kinda expected to ride one of them.

Academy might as well get some Orion Vs and definetly Nova Classics when the rest of 40 foot Orion Is are gone, There is no way that 600/606 will be good for 100% 35 ft bus. They can send some of their 6600s NABIs to Southwest to replace some Nova Classics/ Northwest for some Orion Vs so they can come to Academy. I will love to see some Novas on 606

Yes the NABI 6600s havent been well recieved especially on the 606. Drivers and a few passengers have had negative comments to make about the Nabis on the 606. Some passenger have been asking what happened to the longer buses.

Here are some pics I shot two days ago at Rosemont CTA of our newest arrival, NABI #6681. The #2290 Orion in the background was my bus. I like the design of the NABI 35ft bus. I know it isnt popular with lots of riders or busfans but they have grown on me and IMO theyre not bad buses, when theyre working of course! But you live with what you have and Im enjoying it so far. Heres a thought, the Orions now are becoming more unreliable than our NABIs, go figure! We only have 7 Orions left at Academy. So 7 or 8 more NABIs from the system will have to be reassigned. Although I doubt #2289/90 will be retired just yet. Im curious to see where the remaining NABIs will be coming from. Although I still hold some hope that the Nova Classics will come one day.

I also added a shot of NABI #6648 that made an appearance at Rosemont on Route 325.

The Orions still operating at Academy are Nos.#2293,2326,2302,2372,2374,2289,2290.

Currently there are 26 Pace buses operating out of Academy.

[Busjack]

Here are some pics I shot two days ago at Rosemont of our newest arrival #6681.

I remember the big fleet number on the rear from when it was at HP and NS.

[qwantae]

Unless you meant VIs, Pace doesn't have any Vs to give them, and sure won't be procuring any.

And if you meant VIs, with their longitudinal seats and low seating capacity, I don't think the tollway riders would appreciate that either (although I remember standing on 355s when it was run with 5307s, to show how times and ridership have changed).

You're correct, I meant Orion VIs. Thanks!

[Guest]

So does know how many high floor Orions are left? I didn't know that the south division had 2 and now none! It seems Pace NW has the most high floor Orions still in service. Seen at least three or four parked outside the Cubs game for the express service, among others on various pace NW routes.

I spotted 3 Orions I buses today at NWTC on the #282 Cubs Express and one Orion VI.

[MVTArider]

Yes the NABI 6600s havent been well recieved especially on the 606. Drivers and a few passengers have had negative comments to make about the Nabis on the 606. Some passenger have been asking what happened to the longer buses.

Wow passengers are complaining!!?? Be interesting to see what Pace does if they get enough complaints.

The Orions still operating at Academy are Nos.#2293,2326,2302,2372,2374,2289,2290.

Are they all running like 2301 was? Well except for 2289/90 which I'm guessing run a little better if you're thinking they'll stay around longer.

BTW could you get a mileage count on an Orion or two? (and an NABI for comparison) Obviously they are past the 12 year benchmark but I wonder how many miles over 500,000 they are.

[Guest]

Wow passengers are complaining!!?? Be interesting to see what Pace does if they get enough complaints.

Are they all running like 2301 was? Well except for 2289/90 which I'm guessing run a little better if you're thinking they'll stay around longer.

BTW could you get a mileage count on an Orion or two? (and an NABI for comparison) Obviously they are past the 12 year benchmark but I wonder how many miles over 500,000 they are.

I hope theres enough noise from passengers that Pace will end up sending us 40 footers. I would be happy if they sent us at least three or four of them. Surprisingly Orion #2290 didnt run as good as #2289 does, probably our strongest runner right now as far as Orions. Orion #2290 runs a bit rough, its a bit loud, it sounds like a Gillig Phantom now. But just like all older transit buses, they run better when the a/c is shut off but these hot days lately the a/c had to stay running. On occasion I would run the bus with the a/c shut down. Yesterday I operated Orion #2326, it was hot yesterday but I kept a wet towel with me so I was able to keep cool even when I would turn off the a/c. I could try to get a milage count for one of the Orions, but i do know that our newest NABI arrival #6681 has right around the 100,000 mark, It looks like it was well taken care of inside and out. In unrelated news for you MVTA, our Metro Transit Gillig, looks like theyve begun parting out the bus, since Ive returned to work they have removed the rear engine door and looks as though theyve begun taking engine parts out of it. My next work day is tuesday, Ill get another look at it. We have a cool collection of parted out transits, if youre in town look me up and Ill give you a tour of the place.

[BusHunter]

I hope theres enough noise from passengers that Pace will end up sending us the Nova Classics. I would be happy if they sent us at least three or four of them. Surprisingly Orion #2290 didnt run as good as #2289 does, probably our strongest runner right now as far as Orions. Orion #2290 runs a bit rough, its a bit loud, it sounds like a Gillig Phantom now. But just like all older transit buses, they run better when the a/c is shut off but these hot days lately the a/c had to stay running. On occasion I would run the bus with the a/c shut down. Yesterday I operated Orion #2326, it was hot yesterday but I kept a wet towel with me so I was able to keep cool even when I would turn off the a/c. I could try to get a milage count for one of the Orions, but i do know that our newest NABI arrival #6681 has right around the 100,000 mark.

I used to ride the #606 quite a bit and often noticed that you guys would shut down the A/C when you entered the Nw tollway. (referring to the Orions of course!)I'm assuming so the bus would not overheat. The Orion fleet you guys had always seemed to have a problem with it here and there. I remember one summer 2 or 3 years ago I was stranded 2 or 3 times on the Tollway mainly because of overheats. Alot of times the engine would kick back in after 5 or 10 minutes. Once some guy got off a stalled bus on the tollway and walked down the tollway at the split where you guys used to access the ramp to 190. Traffic was backed up from the River Road toll plaza eastbound. I remember this guy trying to hale a taxi on the expressway and then walking on. I guess he was in a big hurry!! There were other times when a bus had a really slow trans and was crawling on the expressway. It barely made it over the Tri state bridge. That was actually kind of scary because you have cars whizzing by at 50 - 60 miles per hour and we were lucky if we were doing 20 or 30 and on the big inclines we seemed to almost stop. I think that was #2304. Often I used to see the buses accelerate with the back door closing but still in an open position like the interlocks on the back doors were inoperable or disconnected. In alot of ways the Orions at Academy seem like they have seen better days and are tired and wore out. They must have really high miles. They've been needing some better buses up there at Academy. It's good you got the #6600's They ride much better than the Orions. Rode one on the #600 recently. It would be nice to see some Nova Classics up at Academy. But mechanically the #6600's are most likely in better shape. Strangely enough the high floor Orions at pace NW seem to run pretty good. Maybe that's why they still have some.

[Guest]

I remember the big fleet number on the rear from when it was at HP and NS.

Looks alright dosent it?

[Guest]

I used to ride the #606 quite a bit and often noticed that you guys would shut down the A/C when you entered the Nw tollway. (referring to the Orions of course!)I'm assuming so the bus would not overheat. The Orion fleet you guys had always seemed to have a problem with it here and there. I remember one summer 2 or 3 years ago I was stranded 2 or 3 times on the Tollway mainly because of overheats. Alot of times the engine would kick back in after 5 or 10 minutes. Once some guy got off a stalled bus on the tollway and walked down the tollway at the split where you guys used to access the ramp to 190. Traffic was backed up from the River Road toll plaza eastbound. I remember this guy trying to hale a taxi on the expressway and then walking on. I guess he was in a big hurry!! There were other times when a bus had a really slow trans and was crawling on the expressway. It barely made it over the Tri state bridge. That was actually kind of scary because you have cars whizzing by at 50 - 60 miles per hour and we were lucky if we were doing 20 or 30 and on the big inclines we seemed to almost stop. I think that was #2304. Often I used to see the buses accelerate with the back door closing but still in an open position like the interlocks on the back doors were inoperable or disconnected. In alot of ways the Orions at Academy seem like they have seen better days and are tired and wore out. They must have really high miles. They've been needing some better buses up there at Academy. It's good you got the #6600's They ride much better than the Orions. Rode one on the #600 recently. It would be nice to see some Nova Classics up at Academy. But mechanically the #6600's are most likely in better shape. Strangely enough the high floor Orions at pace NW seem to run pretty good. Maybe that's why they still have some.

Ive had two or three instances where the bus died out on me on the tollway. I managed to get it restarted, #2304 was one of them according to my notebook. These Orions at Academy are tired and worn out and IMO its time for them to be retired. I was driving around Skokie today and I saw Nabi #6261 on Route 215 and it kinda struck me, I thought to myself, this is probably the 40 foot bus we'll be getting if we get 40 footers again. I have a feeling it will be 6200 NABIs that will be the next buses at Academy. We cant maintain our routes having an all 35ft bus fleet, the passengers and drivers alike arent happy with them. Route 606 is a 40 foot bus route and if we get 40 footers again I feel it will be the 6200s. What I dont want are the 6000 Orions.

[MVTArider]

I hope theres enough noise from passengers that Pace will end up sending us the Nova Classics. I would be happy if they sent us at least three or four of them.

That would be nice for your riders I'm sure. I still want to try and ride one before they retire.

Surprisingly Orion #2290 didnt run as good as #2289 does, probably our strongest runner right now as far as Orions. Orion #2290 runs a bit rough, its a bit loud, it sounds like a Gillig Phantom now. But just like all older transit buses, they run better when the a/c is shut off but these hot days lately the a/c had to stay running. On occasion I would run the bus with the a/c shut down. Yesterday I operated Orion #2326, it was hot yesterday but I kept a wet towel with me so I was able to keep cool even when I would turn off the a/c. I could try to get a milage count for one of the Orions, but i do know that our newest NABI arrival #6681 has right around the 100,000 mark, It looks like it was well taken care of inside and out.

Thats funny, my van does the same thing It runs great but I can feel the a/c pulling power when I accelerate. I'm glad we have Gillig Advantages and NF's in the afternoon on 445, it gets pretty miserable here heat and humidity wise but those buses seem to stay at about 70℉ and still hold a steady speed on Hwy 77. I hope you guys get some cooler weather soon anyways. Thanks for the mileage info on the NABI I'm just wondering on the Orions since the way it sounds they should be well over the 500,000 mark.

In unrelated news for you MVTA, our Metro Transit Gillig, looks like theyve begun parting out the bus, since Ive returned to work they have removed the rear engine door and looks as though theyve begun taking engine parts out of it. My next work day is tuesday, Ill get another look at it. We have a cool collection of parted out transits, if youre in town look me up and Ill give you a tour of the place.

Thanks for the update I will definitely let you know next time I'm coming to town. I don't know when but I'm guessing at least not until next year since I go back to college next week. Possibly the Auto Show but I can't make any guarantees

Ive had two or three instances where the bus died out on me on the tollway. I managed to get it restarted, #2304 was one of them according to my notebook. These Orions at Academy are tired and worn out and IMO its time for them to be retired. I was driving around Skokie today and I saw Nabi #6261 on Route 215 and it kinda struck me, I thought to myself, this is probably the 40 foot bus we'll be getting if we get 40 footers again. I have a feeling it will be 6200 NABIs that will be the next buses at Academy. We cant maintain our routes having an all 35ft bus fleet, the passengers and drivers alike arent happy with them. Route 606 is a 40 foot bus route and if we get 40 footers again I feel it will be the 6200s. What I dont want are the 6000 Orions.

With Academy they are just hired to drive the buses right? In a way I wonder if it would be better if when Pace gets new buses (which has got to happen eventually) if it would make sense just to send some of them to Academy. That way they don't have to keep swapping stuff out with Academy because the fleet would be more dependable. In the meantime I guess 6200's would at least be better than the 6600's on the 606. Hey, at least they didn't swap everything out for 30ft El D's :D

[Guest]

That would be nice for your riders I'm sure. I still want to try and ride one before they retire.

Thats funny, my van does the same thing It runs great but I can feel the a/c pulling power when I accelerate. I'm glad we have Gillig Advantages and NF's in the afternoon on 445, it gets pretty miserable here heat and humidity wise but those buses seem to stay at about 70℉ and still hold a steady speed on Hwy 77. I hope you guys get some cooler weather soon anyways. Thanks for the mileage info on the NABI I'm just wondering on the Orions since the way it sounds they should be well over the 500,000 mark.

Thanks for the update I will definitely let you know next time I'm coming to town. I don't know when but I'm guessing at least not until next year since I go back to college next week. Possibly the Auto Show but I can't make any guarantees

With Academy they are just hired to drive the buses right? In a way I wonder if it would be better if when Pace gets new buses (which has got to happen eventually) if it would make sense just to send some of them to Academy. That way they don't have to keep swapping stuff out with Academy because the fleet would be more dependable. In the meantime I guess 6200's would at least be better than the 6600's on the 606. Hey, at least they didn't swap everything out for 30ft El D's

Between the Orions and the NABIs as far as a/c the NABIs operate better, the Orions are slow and cant pull very well when climbing the freeway ramps. The NABIs in some cases Ive had to turn the a/c off because it was too cold inside the bus. Im having more confidence in operating a NABI than the Orions now, go figure!. But in reality its not anyones fault, in the end we all know as busfans the Orions are done and very soon they will be no more. Im not looking forward to our last Orion leaving Academy but its going to happen because it is time for those buses to be retired. As far as Academys operations, yes thats correct, Academy is one of many contract operators Pace hires to operate its buses and routes. Pace of course decides the bus assignments and quantity of buses assigned. We have a Pace liason working for Academy to ensure all drivers operate its buses according to the same standards as regular Pace operators. Currently from what im told from personnel at our company there no 40 foot buses available to assign to Academy at this time. I hope it doesent go down to El Dorados in a couple of years. If 40 foot buses make a return to Academy I think it will be the 40 foot NABIs. I would welcome the 61/6200 NABIs I know theyre not the greatest but at least we would have 40 footers again getting the job done on the 606 route. For myself Im just thankful to be a part of this team where I can still enjoy driving transits, I wouldnt trade my position for anything. I enjoy what Im doing, my supervisors are great and are very helpful with my fire dept. work schedule. Im going to be working here for a good while, so long as Academy dosent lose the Pace contract. :)

[Busjack]

With all the talk implying that North Shore (Novas and seeing a 6200) transferring buses to Academy, one has to consider that NS also has about 16 Orions and would need something to replace them, too, and an express bus is needed on 626 (either the Novas or 6200s). While I have mentioned that some Orions could be replaced by ElDorados, it hasn't been said if more were ordered.

In fact, I think the more likely place for surplus 6200s and 6600s is Joliet, given the scope of that restructuring, including cutting back 831 (and renaming it 832), combining parts of other routes, and instituting DAR on the west side. That wouldn't happen until November, but ....

[Busjack]

Getting back to the question whether Academy needs many big buses, while there is no question regarding 600/606, the RTA Annual Report, previously cited, would raise a question regarding the rest of the routes (326, 616, 696, 699), most of which are now being run with 6600s, although apparently not exclusively on 616.

Pace is supposed to have an overall recovery ratio of 35-40%. It gets it in Highland Park and Niles because the municipalities kick in (and Niles "pays the fares" to use the Pace budget euphemism). Academy's recovery ratio is 23%. That compares to Laidlaw's recovery ratio of 32%, which would mostly be DuPage County feeders.

Hence, while a 6600 is too small for 600/606, one could probably get by with ElDorados on the rest. Do actual observations on those routes (especially 696, 699) indicate anything different?

[trainman8119]

Hence, while a 6600 is too small for 600/616, one could probably get by with ElDorados on the rest. Do actual observations on those routes (especially 696, 699) indicate anything different?

I think you are right on target with this observation !!!!

[qwantae]

I've been riding #2297 last few times on 606, and I thought that bus is probably going to be the last 40 foot bus on the rooster before it retires because I consider 2297 is the best good runner 40 foot than all other Orion Is at Academy.

It seems that Northwest has the better Orion Is. Most of Northwest drivers probably takes more advantage of them or enjoying as much as they can to drive them before they retire. Within the last month, I still seeing a few Orion Is on 208/ 270 on Sat/ Sun. I've saw one last sunday working #208 at Golf/ Rollin Meadows when I was on a 6600 on #606 getting off at Golf to go shop at Meijer.

[qwantae]

Other question, Whats going to replace the Orion Is at North Shore and Northwest???

I already know about South already got few more 6600s to replace #2309/ 2325- R.I.P.

[Busjack]

Other question, Whats going to replace the Orion Is at North Shore and Northwest???

If you see something on the Pace Contract Awards page, let us know.

Of course, there are 82 ElDorado options left, and with bus swaps and the like, who knows?

[Guest]

I've been riding #2297 last few times on 606, and I thought that bus is probably going to be the last 40 foot bus on the rooster before it retires because I consider 2297 is the best good runner 40 foot than all other Orion Is at Academy.

It seems that Northwest has the better Orion Is. Most of Northwest drivers probably takes more advantage of them or enjoying as much as they can to drive them before they retire. Within the last month, I still seeing a few Orion Is on 208/ 270 on Sat/ Sun. I've saw one last sunday working #208 at Golf/ Rollin Meadows when I was on a 6600 on #606 getting off at Golf to go shop at Meijer.

Actually #2297 from a drivers view isnt the best running bus. Our best running Orion bus is #2289.

[qwantae]

Actually #2297 from a drivers view isnt the best running bus. Our best running Orion bus is #2289.

Yesterday, I've rode #2293 on 606 to Woodfield, While on Golf road, I've spotted #2321 operating 208 eastbound. That 2293 is one of the slower accelerating bus I've ever been on compared to CTA 5300s/4400s and Ikarus 2200s, probably because of the A/C. I agree on the 2389, I thought that bus was one of the fastest. I did rode 2289 3 weeks ago on the weekend.

[MetroShadow]

I saw a 22/2300 Orion I in Mundelein (south of the Metra Station) on presumably the 572. So there MIGHT be one or two up at North at the moment.

[Busjack]

I saw a 22/2300 Orion I in Mundelein (south of the Metra Station) on presumably the 572. So there MIGHT be one or two up at North at the moment.

Should still be about 8 (out of 44 buses in all at North). Ones not on the "for sale" list are 2328, 2332-2338.

[artthouwill]

Old buses always seem to have problems with AC and high speeds, especially those buses which are "governed". I don't know what kind of transmissions are in those Orions, or for the CTa 4400s and 5300s, but those engines scream at 45 - 55 mph, so if there were an "overdrive" these buses can't take advantage of them. Strain on the engine because of governing, and the pulling of AC causes problems. I know some old MCI coaches would have the same problem at 70 plus mph, so the solution was not to drive pass 55 -60 mph on a hot day with the AC on. The 7500s don't seem to strain on LSD.

Does anyone think Pace will look at artics? Certainly I believe Eldorados are what Pace will be looking at for the majority of its routes, but its heavy hitters 352, 353, 223, etc need bigger than 35ft buses.

[Busjack]

Old buses always seem to have problems with AC and high speeds, especially those buses which are "governed". I don't know what kind of transmissions are in those Orions, or for the CTa 4400s and 5300s, but those engines scream at 45 - 55 mph, so if there were an "overdrive" these buses can't take advantage of them. Strain on the engine because of governing, and the pulling of AC causes problems. I know some old MCI coaches would have the same problem at 70 plus mph, so the solution was not to drive pass 55 -60 mph on a hot day with the AC on. The 7500s don't seem to strain on LSD.

Does anyone think Pace will look at artics? Certainly I believe Eldorados are what Pace will be looking at for the majority of its routes, but its heavy hitters 352, 353, 223, etc need bigger than 35ft buses.

I don't know what transmissions they have, but those of 1990s vintage would have been 3 speeds. The 5 speed transmission is a recent development.

I don't think Pace will ever justify artics (given the CTA service standard of at least 90 passengers), but won't argue with pace2322's contention that 352 might justify them. Demand on 352 and 353 may go down if Pace implements the prior restructuring suggestion of cutting back local stops in the city.