More Bus Moves

[Adam Hubbard]

Is there any chance that 7 might give away some or all of the remaining 7900's range?

[YoungBusLover]

41 minutes ago, jajuan said:

No that's not what he's saying. He said a trade with FG and another garage. So he's not saying FG is losing all its 8350s. But more of them plus 8350s from another garage are possibly getting moved to 77th. Plus he's not even saying all the remaining 7900s at 77th are moving. From what I'm understanding him saying, a sizable chunk are likely moving with a small potential but no solid guarantee for it to be all of them.

If what he mentioned actually plays out, looks like.

You're correct with your observations. I'll clarify that 77th isn't going to lose all of its #7900s by Monday. However, if you see any #7900 on the Southside without a fresh coat of paint among other miscellaneous upgrades just know that the ones you do see with that will eventually be on the way out eventually. Gotta make them look good for the Northside I guess. 😅 The other garage I assume would be either Kedzie or 103rd seeing as they have the least amount of #7900s of any garages. The mileage on them is what's still the issue as many are approaching 300k miles or have already surpassed 300k miles. FG being a lighter route on Mileage has always made the most sense to send them there outside of 103rd with the interlines.

[Chammon Moore]

1 hour ago, jajuan said:

No that's not what he's saying. He said a trade with FG and another garage. So he's not saying FG is losing all its 8350s. But more of them plus 8350s from another garage are possibly getting moved to 77th. Plus he's not even saying all the remaining 7900s at 77th are moving. From what I'm understanding him saying, a sizable chunk are likely moving with a small potential but no solid guarantee for it to be all of them.

If what he mentioned actually plays out, looks like.

Ohhhh ok 

[Shannon tahoeppv]

1 hour ago, YoungBusLover said:

You're correct with your observations. I'll clarify that 77th isn't going to lose all of its #7900s by Monday. However, if you see any #7900 on the Southside without a fresh coat of paint among other miscellaneous upgrades just know that the ones you do see with that will eventually be on the way out eventually. Gotta make them look good for the Northside I guess. 😅 The other garage I assume would be either Kedzie or 103rd seeing as they have the least amount of #7900s of any garages. The mileage on them is what's still the issue as many are approaching 300k miles or have already surpassed 300k miles. FG being a lighter route on Mileage has always made the most sense to send them there outside of 103rd with the interlines.

I say they need to leave RG along & let them have new buses for a change 7 will be ok with the buses they have like C has with 1979-2029 those buse spent their entire lives rolling out of C so the 7900's can do the same or send them to 6 or NP 

[Mr.NewFlyer1279]

#8699 has moved from FG to 74th currently on the 44 Wallace-Racine

[Bus fanatic30]

Saw 8704 and 8714 sitting at 74th

[artthouwill]

On 8/24/2024 at 7:19 AM, MALTDISNEY said:

Literally called it, all of our newer buses being

shipped out. Curious to see what P gets?

 

So far, P seems to have gotten some New Flyer swaps ( 40 ft and 60ft) but NO Novas  as of yet.  Apparently F is sending their Novas to 74th and 77th in exchange for 7900s.   Time will tell if P will get any Novas eventually,  but for now it's looking like they aren't getting any this go round.  

[jajuan]

5 hours ago, artthouwill said:

So far, P seems to have gotten some New Flyer swaps ( 40 ft and 60ft) but NO Novas  as of yet.  Apparently F is sending their Novas to 74th and 77th in exchange for 7900s.   Time will tell if P will get any Novas eventually,  but for now it's looking like they aren't getting any this go round.  

Well various members who are CTA employees have reported NP operators going through the training. And there are still at 200 8350s left to be delivered or go into service. So, they are not completely shut off yet. It just may be they will be last out of the bunch is all. Giving 77th more doesn't really surprise me because 7900s from there have been looking quite shabby even moreso than the 1000s from there. The only hitch for me is FG giving up more 8350s. Yes it has a surplus, but filling other garages until other 8350s get here shouldn't come too much at FG's expense to be able to hold on to something new. For the last twenty years, it's tender to be on the short end of the stick for getting new buses assigned that weren't used at other garages first and actually getting to hold on to them. 

 

9 hours ago, Mr.NewFlyer1279 said:

#8699 has moved from FG to 74th currently on the 44 Wallace-Racine

Its time out must have been short because Maths22 and CTA's trackers show that it's already gone out of service, and it and no other 8350s are shown in service out of 74th. 

[artthouwill]

1 hour ago, jajuan said:

Well various members who are CTA employees have reported NP operators going through the training. And there are still at 200 8350s left to be delivered or go into service. So, they are completely shut off yet. It just may be they will be last out of the bunch is all. Giving 77th more doesn't really surprise me because 7900s from there have been looking quite shabby even moreso than the 1000s from there. The only hitch for me is FG giving up more 8350s. Yes it has a surplus, but filling other garages until other 8350s get here shouldn't come too much at FG's expense to be able to hold on to something new. For the last twenty years, it's tender to be on the short end of the stick for getting new buses assigned that weren't used at other garages first and actually getting to hold on to them. 

 

Its time out must have been short because Maths22 and CTA's trackers show that it's already gone out of service, and it and no other 8350s are shown in service out of 74th. 

I know North Park operators received training on the 8350s.  Apparently I missed that 74th operators received training or even any 8350s for training. 

There are about 200 still to be delivered and it's possible that F can still wind up with some new buses after all.   It remains to be seen if North Park gets any 8350s.   Yes it would seem fair that they should, but I have said many times that history suggests that they may not get any.   But that garages has to be addressed at some point.  Hopefully CTA will make some progress concerning the 208 buses ( artics) soon which North Park will certainly benefit from 

[Busjack]

31 minutes ago, artthouwill said:

I know North Park operators received training on the 8350s.  Apparently I missed that 74th operators received training or even any 8350s for training. 

There are about 200 still to be delivered and it's possible that F can still wind up with some new buses after all.   It remains to be seen if North Park gets any 8350s.   Yes it would seem fair that they should, but I have said many times that history suggests that they may not get any.   But that garages has to be addressed at some point.  Hopefully CTA will make some progress concerning the 208 buses ( artics) soon which North Park will certainly benefit from 

• I don't know what "history" suggests NP won't get any. There were the bizarre splits of 1000s between NP and 103rd, but they got some. The other day I saw a NP bus that was so abused that the license plate was bare metal.
• If the 208 are electrics, as planned, they aren't going to do NP much good, because it is second to last in the environmental discrimination list. 103rd would get them first.

Again, I ask: What makes you think NP's fleet is going to last until about 2035?  Especially with rusting 1700s-1800s?

[YoungBusLover]

I had a chance to catch #8699 briefly at the Halsted Orange line so I believe 74th may have received the DNC shuttles minus #8699 of course. 

[artthouwill]

15 minutes ago, Busjack said:

• I don't know what "history" suggests NP won't get any. There were the bizarre splits of 1000s between NP and 103rd, but they got some. The other day I saw a NP bus that was so abused that the license plate was bare metal.
• If the 208 are electrics, as planned, they aren't going to do NP much good, because it is second to last in the environmental discrimination list. 103rd would get them first.

Again, I ask: What makes you think NP's fleet is going to last until about 2035?  Especially with rusting 1700s-1800s?

It certainly does look like  North Park has gotten some older 1000s in exchange for their 1700s and 1800s.

North Park did receive about 20 6400s when Archer closed.   But they didn't hold on to them very long  and sent them away .

I certainly don't expect North Park to keep these New Flyers another 11 years, I never said that. But going back to the 208 buses, I believe CTA'S phrase was " the equivalent of 208 buses".  They were referring to replacing 4000 - 4207 ( 208 buses) but gave no indication that all 208 would be artics.   That leaves open the possibility that some of these buses could be  40 ft buses but that might mean more than 208 buses.   

Therefore it could be inevitable that North Park winds up with Novas at some point  in time, but that doesn't necessarily mean that they will be assigned any in the near future.  This isn't much different than when the 1000s first came,  74th wasn't slated to receive ANY,  But the high rate of breakdowns with the 6000s forced CTA to send them some.  

 

If there was ever a perfect opportunity to assign North Park any Novas, this weekend was it.   But CTA chose not to.   

[Busjack]

2 minutes ago, YoungBusLover said:

I had a chance to catch #8699 briefly at the Halsted Orange line so I believe 74th may have received the DNC shuttles minus #8699 of course. 

 

What do you mean 'minus 8699?" 44 is a 74th route, and @maths22's tracker so shows it, after running a 19:

[jajuan]

2 minutes ago, Busjack said:

What do you mean 'minus 8699?" 44 is a 74th route, and @maths22's tracker so shows it, after running a 19:

He means 8699 wasn't a DNC shuttle like the other new Novas that 74th got this weekend.

[Busjack]

18 minutes ago, artthouwill said:

This isn't much different than when the 1000s first came,  74th wasn't slated to receive ANY,  But the high rate of breakdowns with the 6000s forced CTA to send them some.  

 

If there was ever a perfect opportunity to assign North Park any Novas, this weekend was it.   But CTA chose not to. 

• But at that time, 74th had the 6000s, which were relatively new compared to the 5300s and 4400s being replaced. It wasn't getting 5300s from 103rd, for instance, if there is any analogy.
• Even if the electric transition plan is for the "equivalent," the plan is for electric buses, and NP is not on the priority list for 40-foot BEBs, between the environmental discrimination list and the almost obvious need to build a new garage.
• If "History" proves anything, it is that CTA makes allocations based on the entire order, which, since Nova is leaving the US in the next 6 months, will show up shortly. So, this weekend may mean something, but not that NP will become the yard of junk.

[Busjack]

10 minutes ago, jajuan said:

He means 8699 wasn't a DNC shuttle like the other new Novas that 74th got this weekend.

The 19 entry indicates otherwise. I don't think the Bulls were playing (or the Blackhawks).

[YoungBusLover]

41 minutes ago, Busjack said:

What do you mean 'minus 8699?" 44 is a 74th route, and @maths22's tracker so shows it, after running a 19:

I'm referring to #8699 as being a bus that wasn't on my logs at 77th being used as a shuttle in reference to all the #8700s we got for the DNC that have mysteriously popped up at 74th afterwards. I wasn't expecting to see it there let alone being apart of the DNC.

[artthouwill]

9 minutes ago, Busjack said:

• But at that time, 74th had the 6000s, which were relatively new compared to the 5300s and 4400s being replaced. It wasn't getting 5300s from 103rd, for instance, if there is any analogy.
• Even if the electric transition plan is for the "equivalent," the plan is for electric buses, and NP is not on the priority list for 40-foot BEBs, between the environmental discrimination list and the almost obvious need to build a new garage.
• If "History" proves anything, it is that CTA makes allocations based on the entire order, which, since Nova is leaving the US in the next 6 months, will show up shortly. So, this weekend may mean something, but not that NP will become the yard of junk.

The 6000s weren't relatively new.  They were 1995 models and the New Flyers first appeared in 2006.  Which means 74th had buses 11 years old going on 12.  The 5000s were 1993 models, 2 years older than the 6000s.   

The only issue I really have argued is whether CTA can run an electric fleet long enough and well enough to send any Nova buses up north at all to replace North Park 1000s.  To this point CTA'S track record with electrics has been abysmal regardless of manufacturer.   Yet it appears that CTA intends to use the yet to be ordered electrics to indirectly replace North Parks aging New Flyer fleet.  That plan is doomed to fail.  Like I said before,  now is the best time to put Novas at North Park    it needs to happen soon. I'm just not sure if it will.

[artthouwill]

30 minutes ago, Busjack said:

The 19 entry indicates otherwise. I don't think the Bulls were playing (or the Blackhawks).

The 19 isn't limited to Bulls and Blackhawks games.   It's for special events including Disney on Ice.  I'm guessing these were free shuttles but probably used run numbers designated for the 19 which could explain why the 19 showed up on the tracker.

[Busjack]

2 minutes ago, artthouwill said:

The 6000s weren't relatively new.  They were 1995 models and the New Flyers first appeared in 2006.  Which means 74th had buses 11 years old going on 12.  The 5000s were 1993 models, 2 years older than the 6000s.   

The only issue I really have argued is whether CTA can run an electric fleet long enough and well enough to send any Nova buses up north at all to replace North Park 1000s.  To this point CTA'S track record with electrics has been abysmal regardless of manufacturer.   Yet it appears that CTA intends to use the yet to be ordered electrics to indirectly replace North Parks aging New Flyer fleet.  That plan is doomed to fail.  Like I said before,  now is the best time to put Novas at North Park    it needs to happen soon. I'm just not sure if it will.

• By the time the 5300s were gone, they had not been rehabbed (unlike the 4400s) and had been run into the ground. Basically, the only thing that resulted in the 6000s being retired was the 20% service reduction. BTW, at the time FG had 6000s and 6400s, and didn't get 1000s either. The 1000s were ordered to replace 4400s and 5300s.
• Whatever CTA's record with electrics is irrelevant to whether it needs new buses in the short term (like the next 6 months).
• Thus, I agree with the point that it will happen soon, but I guess not yesterday.

[Busjack]

5 minutes ago, artthouwill said:

The 19 isn't limited to Bulls and Blackhawks games.   It's for special events including Disney on Ice.  I'm guessing these were free shuttles but probably used run numbers designated for the 19 which could explain why the 19 showed up on the tracker.

Which was my point, but @YoungBusLover explained himself without your or @jajuan's help.

[Mr.cta85]

3 hours ago, YoungBusLover said:

I had a chance to catch #8699 briefly at the Halsted Orange line so I believe 74th may have received the DNC shuttles minus #8699 of course. 

YES!!! I can not wait to go to work Tuesday and I pull out I’m definitely going to ask for a new Nova if it’s any left for sure lol.

[Bus1883]

3 hours ago, artthouwill said:

It certainly does look like  North Park has gotten some older 1000s in exchange for their 1700s and 1800s.

North Park did receive about 20 6400s when Archer closed.   But they didn't hold on to them very long  and sent them away .

I certainly don't expect North Park to keep these New Flyers another 11 years, I never said that. But going back to the 208 buses, I believe CTA'S phrase was " the equivalent of 208 buses".  They were referring to replacing 4000 - 4207 ( 208 buses) but gave no indication that all 208 would be artics.   That leaves open the possibility that some of these buses could be  40 ft buses but that might mean more than 208 buses.   

Therefore it could be inevitable that North Park winds up with Novas at some point  in time, but that doesn't necessarily mean that they will be assigned any in the near future.  This isn't much different than when the 1000s first came,  74th wasn't slated to receive ANY,  But the high rate of breakdowns with the 6000s forced CTA to send them some.  

 

If there was ever a perfect opportunity to assign North Park any Novas, this weekend was it.   But CTA chose not to.   

#1007 was on the 146 earlier. I’m shocked it’s one of 20 2005 models that are still running, going on 20 years old next year. CTA will need to retire something in the #1000s soon other than the ones already at SS. There are approximately around 400 #8350s that have been delivered and placed into service and why are there still only 200+ #1000s OOS/Retired. I thought they were to start the retirement process? Will there ever be a scrap bid any time soon?

[Mr.NewFlyer1279]

#8700, #8704, #8706, #8714, and #8716 have moved from FG to 74th. 

[YoungBusLover]

7 hours ago, Bus1883 said:

#1007 was on the 146 earlier. I’m shocked it’s one of 20 2005 models that are still running, going on 20 years old next year. CTA will need to retire something in the #1000s soon other than the ones already at SS. There are approximately around 400 #8350s that have been delivered and placed into service and why are there still only 200+ #1000s OOS/Retired. I thought they were to start the retirement process? Will there ever be a scrap bid any time soon?

Well it's time you've done some research on the #1000s, the option 3/4 models from 2008 and 2009 are getting retired first for rusted out carbon steel frames among other miscellaneous problems with the buses as a whole. The 1st and 2nd options have stainless steel frames and have fairly held together for the duration of there service lives. CTA has put themselves into a interesting spot by sending NP and C a boat load of those 1st and 2nd order models to balance out the loses of the option 3/4 options they once had. Now when the last 200+ #8350s get here in the next 6 months I'm sure the entire fleet will get balanced out throughout the system properly where no more than 65 - 75 #1000s are at all 7 garages of the 400 that are left to get rehabbed for a second time in the next several months. It takes time to retire an entire fleet though. Spare ratios are still an important factor for every garage to have in order to run efficiently.