Busjack Posted March 30, 2018 Report Share Posted March 30, 2018 28 minutes ago, andrethebusman said: The ninth digit is a check code, which is arrived at via a mathematical formula using the other 16 digits to assure that all the others are in fact correct. If any are not, a computer will kick that VIN out as incorrect. Helps keep fat-finger mistakes at a minimum. Year codes are as follows: Started in 1980 with A. 1981-2000 used B, C, D, E, F, G, H, J, K, L, M, N, P, R, S, T, V, W, X, Y. Note I, O, Q, U, Z were not used. 2001-2009 used 1 thru 9. 2010 started the series over with A. B is 2011, C is 2012, D is 2013, E is 2014, F is 2015, G is 2016, H is 2017, J is 2018. Same five letters will again be skipped. Cycle will repeat every 30 years. This system is used worldwide now. By the way, the first 3 digits identify the builder on any vehicle. 1 designates USA, N9 is Eldorado. MNAC6 designated a EZ Rider II, while APACL designates an Axxess 40'. What those codes actually mean will take more research. Confirms that is what I thought. The only indication that ENC jumped the gun is that 2601-2702 are 7. Even though some were sighted starting in Oct. 2006, and Pace then publicly acknowledged that deliveries had then begun, the largest number was deployed in 2007, with Naperville, and then places like Niles that were delayed until Napervile got its. But if VIN is the standard, clearly all 17500s and 6700s up to 6754 are 2017. I suppose that other gaps in deliveries, such as between 6399 and 6401, must have been within the same model year. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Erin Mishkin Jr. Posted March 30, 2018 Report Share Posted March 30, 2018 On 3/24/2018 at 4:17 PM, Erin Mishkin Jr. said: 2 things I also noticed is 6366 is back on the roster and 6297 is no longer in service. I have proof. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
andrethebusman Posted March 31, 2018 Report Share Posted March 31, 2018 Different builders assign serials in different ways. EDN seems to assign in batches. Nova used to, but now seems to assign in actual order off the line. Orion was the worst, assigning serials in order they were SUPPOSED to come off the line. If an order was not finalized, delayed, or cancelled, those serials are left blank. This makes for a messy list. Gillig is even worse - they go back and reuse cancelled serials, sometimes several years later! So a higher serial number does not necessarily mean a newer bus. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
andrethebusman Posted March 31, 2018 Report Share Posted March 31, 2018 6 hours ago, Erin Mishkin Jr. said: I have proof. I am beginning to suspect that only "active" buses are on the list. 6366 might have been at Chandler or waiting to go there when last list was posted, and was not on it because that day it was "on hold". Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
andrethebusman Posted March 31, 2018 Report Share Posted March 31, 2018 Another thing about EDN - each year the serials start over with 84001. So there were 131 buses built between 6398 and 6401 for somebody or several somebodys. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Erin Mishkin Jr. Posted March 31, 2018 Report Share Posted March 31, 2018 5 hours ago, andrethebusman said: I am beginning to suspect that only "active" buses are on the list. 6366 might have been at Chandler or waiting to go there when last list was posted, and was not on it because that day it was "on hold". Okay, thanks! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Busjack Posted March 31, 2018 Report Share Posted March 31, 2018 11 hours ago, andrethebusman said: Different builders assign serials in different ways. EDN seems to assign in batches. Nova used to, but now seems to assign in actual order off the line. So the theory that the VIN sets the year also goes out the window. As I said in the beginning, this is all meaningless without a standard of reference. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
andrethebusman Posted March 31, 2018 Report Share Posted March 31, 2018 The year code sets the model year in all cases. An "H" VIN is 2017. Might be late 2016 in reality, but that does not seem to bother car enthusaists any, so it shouldn't bother bus enthusaists either. Most transit systems go by model year too, I have noticed, regardless of actual delivery date, in their rosters. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Busjack Posted April 1, 2018 Report Share Posted April 1, 2018 3 hours ago, andrethebusman said: The year code sets the model year in all cases. An "H" VIN is 2017. Might be late 2016 in reality, but that does not seem to bother car enthusaists any, so it shouldn't bother bus enthusaists either. Most transit systems go by model year too, I have noticed, regardless of actual delivery date, in their rosters. Then you have to concede that the buses on the Jan. 2018 inventory are 2017s, despite your attempt to ignore approx. 50 of the 15500s and approx. 50 6700s. You can't have it both ways. Since the Pace budget averages years in service, the dates in those budgets must be in service dates. I don't know what other source of dates you claim to have from Pace (other than the inventories, which support my point #1). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pace831 Posted April 1, 2018 Report Share Posted April 1, 2018 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BusHunter Posted April 1, 2018 Report Share Posted April 1, 2018 6 hours ago, Pace831 said: Next question is how are cngs supposed to run at ns? Unless these are south cngs which makes no sense because souths buses don't run on the shoulder. The missing tinted windows make me believe these are not branded highway buses so theres alot of questions to be answered. Thumbs up on tbe pic Pace831!! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Busjack Posted April 1, 2018 Report Share Posted April 1, 2018 1 hour ago, BusHunter said: Next question is how are cngs supposed to run at ns? Unless these are south cngs which makes no sense because souths buses don't run on the shoulder. On the other hand, isn't today time for your usual electric bus April Fools photo @BusHunter? This shot looks familiar. Like maybe here. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BusHunter Posted April 1, 2018 Report Share Posted April 1, 2018 1 hour ago, Busjack said: On the other hand, isn't today time for your usual electric bus April Fools photo @BusHunter? This shot looks familiar. Like maybe here. No the April fool's joke is that cta has yet to deliver on them. The way that is going they might get them in time for the autonomous buses to show up. Besides the day is not over yet. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Busjack Posted April 1, 2018 Report Share Posted April 1, 2018 5 minutes ago, BusHunter said: No the April fool's joke is that cta has yet to deliver on them. The way that is going they might get them in time for the autonomous buses to show up. Besides the day is not over yet. But you have been suckered by Photoshop for the second time within the J ninth digit of some VIN span. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BusHunter Posted April 1, 2018 Report Share Posted April 1, 2018 4 minutes ago, Busjack said: But you have been suckered by Photoshop for the second time within the J ninth digit of some VIN span. I suspected it was photoshopped but wanted to play along. Maybe someone got excited in NS country. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
andrethebusman Posted April 1, 2018 Report Share Posted April 1, 2018 How Pace classifies a bus and how El Dorado does is two different matters. I described how the builders determine a build year. Yes, EDN calls 6700 up 2017's and they were built in 2017 but Pace does not. Maybe for budgetary reasons, who knows. Maybe they didn't get the cashed check back until 2018 from EDN? Payment usually is after acceptance, isn't it? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
andrethebusman Posted April 1, 2018 Report Share Posted April 1, 2018 There is another piece to this. When the bus arrives at Chandler is unimportant. It is still EDN's property. After Chandler does their inspection it goes to South Holland. Still EDN property. Then Pace checks it out an ok's it. Still EDN until check sent and clears. Notice how new buses sit at SH for weeks sometimes? They haven't been paid for yet most likely as paperwork hasn't been cleared by Arlington Hgts. This is not a quickie process. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Busjack Posted April 2, 2018 Report Share Posted April 2, 2018 9 hours ago, BusHunter said: I suspected it was photoshopped but wanted to play along. Maybe someone got excited in NS country. I somewhat bought it for about 45 seconds. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Busjack Posted April 2, 2018 Report Share Posted April 2, 2018 3 hours ago, andrethebusman said: How Pace classifies a bus and how El Dorado does is two different matters. I described how the builders determine a build year. Yes, EDN calls 6700 up 2017's and they were built in 2017 but Pace does not. Maybe for budgetary reasons, who knows. Maybe they didn't get the cashed check back until 2018 from EDN? Payment usually is after acceptance, isn't it? 3 hours ago, andrethebusman said: There is another piece to this. When the bus arrives at Chandler is unimportant. It is still EDN's property. After Chandler does their inspection it goes to South Holland. Still EDN property. Then Pace checks it out an ok's it. Still EDN until check sent and clears. Notice how new buses sit at SH for weeks sometimes? They haven't been paid for yet most likely as paperwork hasn't been cleared by Arlington Hgts. This is not a quickie process. Neither comment (especially not the second) is responsive to the fact that the buses at issue were on the street in 2017. You seem to argue in circles and tell me what I already know without any support for assertion that some 17500s were not in your original lists "because they are 2018s," when by any standard, including VINs, they are not. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chgofan78 Posted April 2, 2018 Report Share Posted April 2, 2018 Just passed #6729 on route #626 and it's now wrapped like the I-90 buses with the Pace Express logo on its side. 2 1 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BusHunter Posted April 2, 2018 Report Share Posted April 2, 2018 1 hour ago, chgofan78 said: Just passed #6729 on route #626 and it's now wrapped like the I-90 buses with the Pace Express logo on its side. So I guess the highway bus theory is debunked. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Busjack Posted April 2, 2018 Report Share Posted April 2, 2018 1 hour ago, BusHunter said: So I guess the highway bus theory is debunked. At least for 2 months, but we knew that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BusHunter Posted April 2, 2018 Report Share Posted April 2, 2018 5 hours ago, chgofan78 said: Just passed #6729 on route #626 and it's now wrapped like the I-90 buses with the Pace Express logo on its side. So I wonder if it's using the shoulder. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
artthouwill Posted April 2, 2018 Author Report Share Posted April 2, 2018 1 minute ago, BusHunter said: So I wonder if it's using the shoulder. Depends on conditions. If traffic is moving fairly quickly, then no. If traffic is moving 15 mph, then yes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Busjack Posted April 2, 2018 Report Share Posted April 2, 2018 9 minutes ago, BusHunter said: So I wonder if it's using the shoulder. They said April 9. Today is April 2. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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