2200-series - Updates (Retired)

[greenstreet]

How many cars are actually needed now to cover the Blue Line? I ask this because there seems to be a lot of Blue Line equipment everywhere else. Howard Yard has 6 2200-series cars (2299-2300,2201-2202,2349-2350), Rosemont Yard has about 4 cars that seem to be inactive including (2277-2278,2287-2288), Skokie has at least 8 and there are numerous cars mentioned throughout this thread.

According to the most recent rail assignment and spare reports, 308 cars are assigned to the Blue Line. 256 cars are needed to make service for morning rush.

These 2200s are assigned to long-term hold and are not part of the Blue Line's allotment of 106 2200s:

2201-2202, 2205-2206, 2231-2232. 2247-2248, 2265-2266, 2269-2270, 2275-2278, 2281-2284, 2287-2288, 2297-2300, 2335-2336, 2349-2350

[Sam92]

ame='chgofan78' date='20 March 2012 - 06:00 PM' timestamp='1332284423' post='35464']

I believe there are about 318 cars asssigned to the Blue Line.

I don't know if the 2400s are actually assigned to the Red Line or not, but it would seem that they would be operating on the Purple.

It looks like they are for the moment. They have the maps and everything

[sw4400]

Anyone else think there might be a equipment shortage coming up very soon? Let's look at all the 2200's currently out of service whether pegged for retirement, retired, or long-term holds.

2201-2202

2205-2206

2231-2232

2247-2248

2265-2266

2269-2270

2275-2276

2277-2278

2281-2282

2283-2284

2287-2288

2297-2298

2299-2300

2335-2336

2345-2346

2349-2350

32 married pairs of 2200's are possibly retired. The 5000's are not due to return sometime in May(that could be early, mid or late). They seem to be falling off the roster very quickly, which makes me wonder if the 2200's will hold out until the 5000's make their return to service.

[RJL6000]

There's also an 8 car train of 2400s now assigned to the Red Line from the Green Line. I would say it was just a loaner, but the cars are all coupled in numerical order (2523-2524,2525-2526,2527-2528,2529-2530).

This could be the beginning of the end for the 2400s, as far as remaining officially in CTA service is concerned. The higher-numbered of the Green Line's 2400s are now beginning to be reassigned to Howard Yard for standby service (meaning that they are used only when additional cars are needed on either the Red Line or the Purple Line).

And since the Green Line is slated to be re-equipped with the Bombardier 5000s as early as June, the CTA is keeping some of the oldest of 2400s on the Green Line while transferring the higher-numbered 2400s to Howard Yard.

[chitowndude84]

Hate to get alittle of topic,But ABC 7 here in SF had a report on the BART system and how they need more funding to replace the fleet and that they have the oldest fleet in the country/world ?? .So which is oldest ?? The CTA 2200 series or the BART fleet ?? I do think the 2200's are the winner in age or service ?

And a side note.The BART rep even said they have to sometimes source certain parts for trains on ebay !!! What the %????

[Busjack]

Hate to get alittle of topic,But ABC 7 here in SF had a report on the BART system and how they need more funding to replace the fleet and that they have the oldest fleet in the country/world ?? .So which is oldest ?? The CTA 2200 series or the BART fleet ?? I do think the 2200's are the winner in age or service ?

And a side note.The BART rep even said they have to sometimes source certain parts for trains on ebay !!! What the %????

The 2200s were delivered in 1969, the opening of the Dan Ryan branch. All were in service by 1970, when the Jefferson Park extension opened.

The BART history page says that the contract for the purchase of the cars was made with Rohr Industries in July, 1969, and that delivery of the entire fleet was completed in July, 1975. Also, passenger service started in 1972. So, technically speaking, ABC7 was wrong. But apparently only until maybe July, 2012.

There is also the question whether the Rohrs were ever rehabbed, as the 2200s were in about 1991. That may also be relevant to the eBay point, in that it is often said that the reason transit equipment has to be replaced is that parts are no longer available. For instance, DC motors are not being put in new equipment, and the question is whether they are still being manufactured as replacement parts, or BART will have to buy CTA scrap parts to keep its system running.

Also, by "oldest fleet," they may mean average age, which, in CTA's case, takes into account subsequent deliveries, resulting in an average age now of 28 years. Thus the question is whether BART got any equipment after 1975.

BTW, back around 1970, someone from the Bay Area got into a huff when I suggested that the system should be called Frisco Area Rapid Transit, but not for the reason I implied. :D

[Amtrak41]

The NYCT has 220 Budd R32's from 1964-5 on the "C" train, and "A" once in a while. They must last until 2017. They are just starting to get an "SMS" (truck rebuilding, frame reinforcement, AC compressors replaced, some asbestos mitigation).

I think that may take the cake for oldesest transit cars around.

[Busjack]

The NYCT has 220 Budd R32's from 1964-5 on the "C" train, and "A" once in a while. They must last until 2017. They are just starting to get an "SMS" (truck rebuilding, frame reinforcement, AC compressors replaced, some asbestos mitigation).

I think that may take the cake for oldesest transit cars around.

Depends on whether you define transit cars as heavy or light rail, since some PCCs are still around, and that production ended about 1952. Apparently still in use in Boston and San Francisco.

Apparently the MBTA has some pretty old heavy rail cars on the Red Line, but according to some web sources, about the same age as the CTA 2200s.

And, of course, the oldest transit cars around are undoubtedly the SF cable cars.

[sw4400]

BTW, back around 1970, someone from the Bay Area got into a huff when I suggested that the system should be called Frisco Area Rapid Transit, but not for the reason I implied.

Very humorous commercial prospect here, Busjack.

Tourist(to San Francisco resident): Excuse me, but how do you get around the Bay Area?

Resident: FART.

:lol:

[artthouwill]

This could be the beginning of the end for the 2400s, as far as remaining officially in CTA service is concerned. The higher-numbered of the Green Line's 2400s are now beginning to be reassigned to Howard Yard for standby service (meaning that they are used only when additional cars are needed on either the Red Line or the Purple Line).

And since the Green Line is slated to be re-equipped with the Bombardier 5000s as early as June, the CTA is keeping some of the oldest of 2400s on the Green Line while transferring the higher-numbered 2400s to Howard Yard.

The CTA should consider retiring some of the Red Line 2600s. Some of them ride and rattle worse than any 2200 or 2400 series car. The other day when it was hot outside, car 2438 was an ice box. Yet when I am on the Red, there are some cars I wonder if the wheels are going to come off. At first I thought maybe we may be running over some bad rail, but after riding the same section over and over again, it is evident that it is not the rails.

I am also surprised that after the Green Line, the CTA didn't consider making the Orange Line the third line to receive 5000s, in that their 3200s could easily be shifted to the Blue Line to retire most of the 2200s. The 3200s can train with the existing 2600s on that line. Plus the 3200s give the O'Hare riders a little more luggage space.

[Busjack]

The CTA should consider retiring some of the Red Line 2600s..

In that the Red Line has the lowest fleet numbers of the 2600s, and, according to the oracles, is supposed to get 5000s, and there will be approximately 360 5000s left after replacing the 2200s and 2400s, undoubtedly that's the case. Of course, if the trucks of the 5000s suddenly start rattling....

[sw4400]

The CTA should consider retiring some of the Red Line 2600s. Some of them ride and rattle worse than any 2200 or 2400 series car. The other day when it was hot outside, car 2438 was an ice box. Yet when I am on the Red, there are some cars I wonder if the wheels are going to come off. At first I thought maybe we may be running over some bad rail, but after riding the same section over and over again, it is evident that it is not the rails.

If you're referring to the "screeching" sound, that's the rails and the wheels making contact. I hear that a lot at the Sheridan "S" Curve on the Red Line.

I am also surprised that after the Green Line, the CTA didn't consider making the Orange Line the third line to receive 5000s, in that their 3200s could easily be shifted to the Blue Line to retire most of the 2200s. The 3200s can train with the existing 2600s on that line. Plus the 3200s give the O'Hare riders a little more luggage space.

What about the Brownage Trains? Orange Line does share it's equipment with the Brown Line 3200's early in the A.M. I had discussed the idea of Brown Line 3200's going to replace the 2200's on the Blue Line simply because the Brown Line terminates service at about 1:30a until around 4:30a, giving rail staff three hours to move 6 to 8-car consists of 3200's from the Kimball Yard to the Desplaines Yard. and bring the 5000's in 6 to 8 car consists into Kimball Yard at about the same time.

Besides, the plan is to put them onto service with low ridership first. the Orange Line isn't a low ridership route, due to it servicing Midway Airport.

This should be the table of assignment based on the CTA assigning them to low ridership routes first.

Pink Line

Green Line

Yellow Line

Purple Line

Red Line(Partial Assignment)

Orange Line

Blue Line(Partial Assignment)

[Sam92]

The CTA should consider retiring some of the Red Line 2600s. Some of them ride and rattle worse than any 2200 or 2400 series car. The other day when it was hot outside, car 2438 was an ice box. Yet when I am on the Red, there are some cars I wonder if the wheels are going to come off. At first I thought maybe we may be running over some bad rail, but after riding the same section over and over again, it is evident that it is not the rails.

I am also surprised that after the Green Line, the CTA didn't consider making the Orange Line the third line to receive 5000s, in that their 3200s could easily be shifted to the Blue Line to retire most of the 2200s. The 3200s can train with the existing 2600s on that line. Plus the 3200s give the O'Hare riders a little more luggage space.

sorry I lost track ofr a bit... Which line is next after the GReen Line to recieve 5000's?

[sw4400]

sorry I lost track ofr a bit... Which line is next after the GReen Line to recieve 5000's?

That hasn't yet been announced, but the table I charted above is probably closest, although I will say probably not in order.

[Busjack]

sorry I lost track ofr a bit... Which line is next after the GReen Line to recieve 5000's?

That hasn't yet been announced, but the table I charted above is probably closest, although I will say probably not in order.

In fact it had been announced; reference to an NBC5 story here.

[sw4400]

In fact it had been announced; reference to an NBC5 story here.

Yes it was announced, but that article dates back to November 8, 2011... four months ago. And one news article I read did mention low ridership routes would get them first in the event of equipment failure, which has definitely been noticeable up to this point with two service removals and the infamous D.T.S(Dead Train Syndrome) with the 5000-Series Railcars at Tower 18, requiring more stinger use than any other series currently in service. While the Pink, Green, Yellow and Purple Lines are low or median ridership lines, Red and Orange are anything BUT low or median ridership lines. These are high ridership routes which serve Howard to 95th St. and Midway, respectively. I've seen the Red Line in the St. Street Subway on a weekday afternoon, and those Howard-Bound and 95th-Bound Trains are jam-packed. I haven't been on a Orange Line train, but I can imagine it gets jammed with people heading to Midway every day of the week. I've heard about buses at stations that serve the Orange Line that get jammed with people coming off the train and exiting the buses to board the train. Yellow and Purple should be before Red even gets any 5000's due to these routes being lower ridership. Also, if the Yellow Line has 5000's and they break down on the line blocking traffic, the passengers can use the #97 Skokie Bus as an alternate. If it happens on the Purple Line, the Red Line can take them to Howard, where Shuttle Buses can take them to Linden. Brown Line Trains can take them to the Loop.

Unfortunately, Google Searching can't turn up the article. Perhaps it was a TV News article that has since been pulled off the site.

[Busjack]

Unfortunately, Google Searching can't turn up the article. Perhaps it was a TV News article that has since been pulled off the site.

Well, it apparently wasn't taken off the site if my link still works, which it does.

I said before that what CTA previously said made no sense, but that's par for the course for the CTA.

[Busjack]

Hate to get alittle of topic,But ABC 7 here in SF had a report on the BART system and how they need more funding to replace the fleet and that ...

Tying together this with the post on the Hornell newspaper, there was a companion story basically to the extent that Bombardier underbid Alstom for the BART contract, but Alstom thinks it has leverage on the Buy America audit--not because Bombardier didn't meet requirements but because they say BART should be willing to pay 2% more for 90% U.S. content.

Anyway, by page 2 of the article,

The challenge by Alstom strongly indicates that the company — which in Hornell has trimmed its workforce significantly in the past five years and is now only at work on a 120-car, $195 million renovation contract for PATCO — is prepared to enter the final phase of a major expansion project... At its peak, Alstom employed more than 1,100 at its Hornell plants and was capable of producing more than 60 rail cars monthly.

shows the apparent desperation reflected in this and the article about the CTA.

[sw4400]

I just saw a string of 2200's(#'s unknown) sitting in the Howard Yard.

[MVTArider]

When I was in Chicago I had the chance to ride several 2200 series Budd cars. On my last day of riding I went to O'Hare where I was able to get a couple photos of the interiors and also some footage of the car riding back to Rosemont.

Photos, 2241, and 2314:

Video: Ride CTA Blue Line/Budd Chicago 2200 Series

So for me anyways it's time to bid farewell to the 2200 series, as their doors will have likely blinked shut the last time for revenue service before I get to Chicago again. :(

[qwantae]

Yes it was announced, but that article dates back to November 8, 2011... four months ago. And one news article I read did mention low ridership routes would get them first in the event of equipment failure, which has definitely been noticeable up to this point with two service removals and the infamous D.T.S(Dead Train Syndrome) with the 5000-Series Railcars at Tower 18, requiring more stinger use than any other series currently in service. While the Pink, Green, Yellow and Purple Lines are low or median ridership lines, Red and Orange are anything BUT low or median ridership lines. These are high ridership routes which serve Howard to 95th St. and Midway, respectively. I've seen the Red Line in the St. Street Subway on a weekday afternoon, and those Howard-Bound and 95th-Bound Trains are jam-packed. I haven't been on a Orange Line train, but I can imagine it gets jammed with people heading to Midway every day of the week. I've heard about buses at stations that serve the Orange Line that get jammed with people coming off the train and exiting the buses to board the train. Yellow and Purple should be before Red even gets any 5000's due to these routes being lower ridership. Also, if the Yellow Line has 5000's and they break down on the line blocking traffic, the passengers can use the #97 Skokie Bus as an alternate. If it happens on the Purple Line, the Red Line can take them to Howard, where Shuttle Buses can take them to Linden. Brown Line Trains can take them to the Loop.

Unfortunately, Google Searching can't turn up the article. Perhaps it was a TV News article that has since been pulled off the site.

So it means that Blue Line will get more Red/ Pink 2600s, Red will get more Green/ Purple 2400s until rest of 5000s arrives. Then Orange/ Brown would remain with 3200s even after their rehab until their retirement?

[Busjack]

So it means that Blue Line will get more Red/ Pink 2600s, Red will get more Green/ Purple 2400s until rest of 5000s arrives. Then Orange/ Brown would remain with 3200s even after their rehab until their retirement?

I don't think anyone can assume something 3 years in advance, not to mention 20.

At some point (assuming that they find a way out of the single source stink), there will be approximately 960 compatible cars, compared to current fleet requirements in the upper 1100s (approximately 1190 cars indicated on the chicago-lorg roster prior to the 5000s). Not knowing if there will be a Red Line extension, and hence the need for another 84 or so cars, that leaves 230-316 either 2600s with which the Blue Line will be stuck, or the CTA will have to find a way to replace them when this contract runs out. As of the last assignment sheet of June 12, 2011, the Blue Line has 318 cars, so shockingly, the numbers almost work out. That probably indicates that it won't happen. :lol:

[Guest]

I think it would be ridiculous for the Blue Line to rcieve the #2600 hand me downs. This line serves OHare Airport. It should be given more consideration when recieving cars. They should be running the oldest cars in the fleet. It should be running newer cars such as the 3200s.

[artthouwill]

I think it would be ridiculous for the Blue Line to rcieve the #2600 hand me downs. This line serves OHare Airport. It should be given more consideration when recieving cars. They should be running the oldest cars in the fleet. It should be running newer cars such as the 3200s.

Somewhere in this thread, I guessed the Blue Line would be completely 5000s. Wrong!!!! Maybe lack of luggage space made them rethink that idea because the only places to put luggage are in the wheelchair accessible areas, on the seats, or in the aisle, the latter being a safety issue. Even though the Orange Line will see 5000s and thus have the same issues, the overcrowding is not as severe as it is on the Blu e.

Perhaps there is a racial angle in that the "minority" neighborhoods get the new equipment first, though with the exception of the Brown, Purple, and Yellow, the remaining lines serve some "minority" neighborhood.

[Busjack]

Somewhere in this thread, I guessed the Blue Line would be completely 5000s. Wrong!!!!

Perhaps there is a racial angle in that the "minority" neighborhoods get the new equipment first, though with the exception of the Brown, Purple, and Yellow, the remaining lines serve some "minority" neighborhood.

The point I made earlier was not putting them on the Blue Line made no sense, because (1) it has the oldest cars, and (2) it is the second heaviest line in the system and runs 24 hours a day.

Saying Green made no sense because it doesn't have the load factors that the Blue does.

Purple doesn't make sense, because most of the cars sit in the yard off rush hour. Maybe it and Yellow get thrown in with Red based on some belief that Howard Yard couldn't handle two types of equipment.

However, unless the math works out as I stated above, Blue is going to have two types of incompatible equipment.

Hence, maybe someone at CTA will wake up before the delivery gets too far down the road, but I doubt it. After all, how long did it take them to figure out to shuffle around the buses so that 74th was not all 6000s?