CTA Bus Rapid Transit (take two)

[Busjack]

On the parking restriction issue, let's also take into account the current stink that the concessionaire wants to be compensated for taking metered parking spaces out of commission. Now, consider 16 miles of them.

[Kevin]

You would think, but recent traffic engineering ideas are contrary. The bumpout is one of the techniques known as "traffic calming." Car and Driver even wrote about them,* even though its former management referred to the "Anti Destination League."

___________

*At the bottom of this article, under "Less-Mean Streets."

The bumpouts, in addition to calming traffic, reduce the crossing distance for pedestrians. It is now CDOT's policy to reduce excess pavement at intersections in an effort to prioritize pedestrians over cars.

To revise BusHunter's statement, the goal is to get all users of the roadway through the intersection as safely as possible.

[Busjack]

The bumpouts, in addition to calming traffic, reduce the crossing distance for pedestrians. It is now CDOT's policy to reduce excess pavement at intersections in an effort to prioritize pedestrians over cars.

To revise BusHunter's statement, the goal is to get all users of the roadway through the intersection as safely as possible.

Definitely the case (at least the conclusion properly drawn from what C&D said about the National Complete Streets Coalition).

However, this shows that unlike several commenters on the CTA Tattler, those here seem to take the view that this isn't going to be approved at basically the cost of turning Ashland into a side street, or at least that vehicular traffic is entitled to some consideration. Even on the bus beat, BusHunter seems correct that when you put the renderings all together, the 9 Local bus is not going to an efficient service.

[BusHunter]

Definitely the case (at least the conclusion properly drawn from what C&D said about the National Complete Streets Coalition).

However, this shows that unlike several commenters on the CTA Tattler, those here seem to take the view that this isn't going to be approved at basically the cost of turning Ashland into a side street, or at least that vehicular traffic is entitled to some consideration. Even on the bus beat, BusHunter seems correct that when you put the renderings all together, the 9 Local bus is not going to an efficient service.

Without some change to the plan this project is not going to work. I've seen two construction projects this week that close one lane of traffic right before a traffic light and the traffic is bumper to bumper for about 3-4 blocks. These are single lane roads to start out. Not double lane roads like Ashland. So based on that, theoretically traffic should line up 6-8 blocks at Ashland intersections. Anyone with half a brain traveling down Ashland is simply going to use the side streets.

[Kevin]

However, this shows that unlike several commenters on the CTA Tattler, those here seem to take the view that this isn't going to be approved at basically the cost of turning Ashland into a side street, or at least that vehicular traffic is entitled to some consideration. Even on the bus beat, BusHunter seems correct that when you put the renderings all together, the 9 Local bus is not going to an efficient service.

CDOT's general policy is to consider road diets on streets with average daily traffic (ADT) of less than 30,000 cars. The typical road diet will take a road with four car travel lanes and reduce it to three car travel lanes (with the center lane serving as a turning lane). With ADT <30,000, you can generally perform this change with little to no impact on vehicular travel times. Reducing roadway capacity tends to reduce demand as automobile drivers either change their behavior (different route, increased off-peak travel, reduced trips) or change their mode (transit, biking, walking). This is essentially the opposite of the concept of induced demand, where increasing road capacity in turn increases demand and thus eventually results in a net zero reduction in travel times.

If you look at ADT counts for the segment scheduled to receive BRT, you'll see that most areas north of Harrison have an ADT count of ~30,000 while areas south of Harrison have ADT counts as high as 44,000. Despite these higher numbers, CDOT is betting that reducing capacity will therefore reduce demand and thus decrease automobile traffic on Ashland. While vehicular travel times may increase, the thinking is that this plan will not result in the total gridlock that many are predicting.

[mkohut]

Without some change to the plan this project is not going to work. I've seen two construction projects this week that close one lane of traffic right before a traffic light and the traffic is bumper to bumper for about 3-4 blocks. These are single lane roads to start out. Not double lane roads like Ashland. So based on that, theoretically traffic should line up 6-8 blocks at Ashland intersections. Anyone with half a brain traveling down Ashland is simply going to use the side streets.

While the side street might a good idea.You have to keep in mind all the speed hurps and platters in the middle of the intersection.

[BusHunter]

CDOT's general policy is to consider road diets on streets with average daily traffic (ADT) of less than 30,000 cars. The typical road diet will take a road with four car travel lanes and reduce it to three car travel lanes (with the center lane serving as a turning lane). With ADT <30,000, you can generally perform this change with little to no impact on vehicular travel times. Reducing roadway capacity tends to reduce demand as automobile drivers either change their behavior (different route, increased off-peak travel, reduced trips) or change their mode (transit, biking, walking). This is essentially the opposite of the concept of induced demand, where increasing road capacity in turn increases demand and thus eventually results in a net zero reduction in travel times.

If you look at ADT counts for the segment scheduled to receive BRT, you'll see that most areas north of Harrison have an ADT count of ~30,000 while areas south of Harrison have ADT counts as high as 44,000. Despite these higher numbers, CDOT is betting that reducing capacity will therefore reduce demand and thus decrease automobile traffic on Ashland. While vehicular travel times may increase, the thinking is that this plan will not result in the total gridlock that many are predicting.

Yes, but they are not reducing to three travel lanes, they are reducing to two. Plus alot of 18 wheelers use Ashland around Blue Island and the Stevenson and points south. For many of those drivers there is no alternate unless you move the factory. Plus there are a few stores like Kmart, Dominick's, Jewel, Costco to throw into the mix. They need deliveries too. Many road diet streets i've seen so far in the city have been on single lane streets to start out. Has there been one yet that turns a two lane street into a one lane street, and has that had a negative impact on traffic?

[Kevin]

Yes, but they are not reducing to three travel lanes, they are reducing to two.

The purpose of a third center lane is to facilitate left-hand turns, which will be forbidden on Ashland.

[sw4400]

The idea of left-side doors is perplexing...

Hypothetically, if BRT doesn't work for CTA, what happens to the buses they order? And isn't Jeffrey Jump a BRT service? J14 uses current stock articulated buses, which are all right-side doors.

[mkohut]

The idea of left-side doors is perplexing...

Hypothetically, if BRT doesn't work for CTA, what happens to the buses they order? And isn't Jeffrey Jump a BRT service? J14 uses current stock articulated buses, which are all right-side doors.

I don't think thats going to happen.In all likelyhood a environment was never done.Emanuel and Claypool got ahead of thenself on the Wabash/Randolph station.That project is delay at a year cause they fail to do a environment study and can't get Federal funding without it.

[Sam92]

The idea of left-side doors is perplexing...

Hypothetically, if BRT doesn't work for CTA, what happens to the buses they order? And isn't Jeffrey Jump a BRT service? J14 uses current stock articulated buses, which are all right-side doors.

well, its technically BRT lite to test a few things but I'm starting to give up calling it that at this point. The only things that the J14 has at the moment are the "stations" and rush hour priority lanes..... I have yet to see any TSP work down here except for seeing a bus signal sign under the walk sign on Anthony which still hasn't been started, only a few artics have the screens for bustracker so for the moment it's just a 14 with a shelter and kiosks at every stop. Maybe the 4300's actually are supposed to be the new Jump artics and in that case the rest of the project will end up complete after the Ryan shutdown and 4300s get more permanent assignments.

[Busjack]

....

If you look at ADT counts for the segment scheduled to receive BRT, you'll see that most areas north of Harrison have an ADT count of ~30,000 while areas south of Harrison have ADT counts as high as 44,000. Despite these higher numbers, CDOT is betting that reducing capacity will therefore reduce demand and thus decrease automobile traffic on Ashland. While vehicular travel times may increase, the thinking is that this plan will not result in the total gridlock that many are predicting.

It seems like

• This is a pretty big bet, especially with an arterial going most of the length of the city and already narrowed on the north side with planters.
• The environmental impact statement has to reflect the diversion of of traffic to side streets, or more on Western and Halsted (at one time BRT candidates), and especially on side streets for 3 right turns instead of a left. It is going to be real fun to live on Bosworth or Marshfield. And if they are one way, it will be real fun for the truckers to navigate those neighborhoods.
• The way the discussion has been going yesterday and today, I wonder how much of the $10 million per mile is going in support of the bus, as opposed to other things CDOT wants to do. If those make sense, maybe CDOT ought to seek another source of funds, not that this is going to be funded.

[Busjack]

The idea of left-side doors is perplexing...

Hypothetically, if BRT doesn't work for CTA, what happens to the buses they order? And isn't Jeffrey Jump a BRT service? J14 uses current stock articulated buses, which are all right-side doors.

• CTA can still use the buses, since they will have three right doors. The prior discussion indicates that the result will be a 60 foot bus with the seating capacity of a 40, but that doesn't matter to CTA, as there will be abundant standing room. Just don't lean against the doors.
• Getting back to when we hashed it out about "the procurement for 60 foot buses is continuing," one of the reasons it is might be that CTA doesn't know if it is going to need these buses. Given the five year life of the options after the contract is awarded, which it hasn't been yet, maybe CTA is just trying to lock in a price until such time as it can order them. If, in 4 years, it doesn't, either it drops the option or does the same thing as for the 84 cars of the 5000 series originally designated for the Airport Express--just direct that they be built as conventional vehicles.

[geneking7320]

If left turns will not be permitted on Ashland could CTA run the BRT left handed or would that cause an uproar?

[Busjack]

If left turns will not be permitted on Ashland could CTA run the BRT left handed or would that cause an uproar?

I assume you mean something similar to the reverse routing downtown in the late 70s, such as buses EB on Madison in their own bus lane.

Aside from the risk of head on collisions, I suppose that that would be subject to an objection made with regard to the downtown situation--the traffic pattern would be too confusing to pedestrians, which it is indicated above are also to be served. It wouldn't work too well if someone was crossing the street for the southbound bus from the west curb and got run over by the northbound bus before reaching the platform. Sorta sounds like Metra.

[MetroShadow]

If left turns will not be permitted on Ashland could CTA run the BRT left handed or would that cause an uproar?

You could approach the station such as LA does with the Busway, but still in the center. However, I'd assume that would require more space and land to do it with. Still, people would be confused as a whole and it wouldn't end well (I assert you'd be right).

[Busjack]

You could approach the station such as LA does with the Busway, but still in the center. However, I'd assume that would require more space and land to do it with. Still, people would be confused as a whole and it wouldn't end well (I assert you'd be right).

I'm not sure what the picture denotes. Does the busway generally run left handed, but the bus is crossing over for the freeway entrance only?

The picture indicates that the crossover is fairly separated from car traffic, but obviously you are correct that Ashland doesn't provide enough room, especially if this implies a crossover every quarter mile (which is why I asked the question).

[MetroShadow]

I should've clarified.

Those routes that use the Busway run on same side of the expressway (with the flow of traffic), but in most cases where there is an island platform, there would be a crossover to the left, so that passengers can exit from the right side. Afterwards, return to the right side of the road.

[Busjack]

I should've clarified.

Those routes that use the Busway run on same side of the expressway (with the flow of traffic), but in most cases where there is an island platform, there would be a crossover to the left, so that passengers can exit from the right side. Afterwards, return to the right side of the road.

Hence, may be relevant if Pace does something on the Jane Addams, but probably not with regard to CTA on Ashland. But, even in the Pace case, I assume that the bus would pull off the expressway into a Park and Ride terminal, like it does on I-55.

[BusHunter]

That's kind of cool. A silver bus for a silver line. Maybe CTA should just name their BRT routes by color. When it comes down to putting those on a map it may be confusing if for instance they put a blue line for Jump. Also they can just order the buses with the color's livery like what LA does. BTW, speaking of Pace, I heard they intend to start running the Pace express' (#924 and #925) for the Red line closure starting on May 6th. I wonder why they are doing it ahead of the closure on May 19th?

[sw4400]

That's kind of cool. A silver bus for a silver line. Maybe CTA should just name their BRT routes by color. When it comes down to putting those on a map it may be confusing if for instance they put a blue line for Jump. Also they can just order the buses with the color's livery like what LA does. BTW, speaking of Pace, I heard they intend to start running the Pace express' (#924 and #925) for the Red line closure starting on May 6th. I wonder why they are doing it ahead of the closure on May 19th?

I like the idea, but I think there would be confusion with the rail lines(Red, Blue, Brown, Green, Orange, Purple, Pink, Yellow). I think a flip sign could be used:

9X: Ashland BRT

9X: to 95th/Red Line or 103rd/Vincennes

"X" to me would make the most sense.

[MetroShadow]

Hence, may be relevant if Pace does something on the Jane Addams, but probably not with regard to CTA on Ashland. But, even in the Pace case, I assume that the bus would pull off the expressway into a Park and Ride terminal, like it does on I-55.

Depending on the schematics (i.e. the location of the park-rides). I can't see them doing what LA (or the Illinois Tollway) is doing...

BTW, speaking of Pace, I heard they intend to start running the Pace express' (#924 and #925) for the Red line closure starting on May 6th. I wonder why they are doing it ahead of the closure on May 19th?

AFAIK, that might be when the 755/855 express "realignment" is starting (I don't think it's a pick issue).

[jajuan]

I like the idea, but I think there would be confusion with the rail lines(Red, Blue, Brown, Green, Orange, Purple, Pink, Yellow). I think a flip sign could be used:

9X: Ashland BRT

9X: to 95th/Red Line or 103rd/Vincennes

"X" to me would make the most sense.

One correction though. CTA has only stated that the BRT route will run as far as 95th/Ashland. There is no indication they plan to route it to 95th/Red Line or 103rd/Vincennes like the 9 Local does at certain times. But let's imagine they were to do it, it could also probably be along the lines of how the locals operated by New Flyers display those destinations. So using your 9X scenario:

9X ASHLAND BRT VIA 95 flip 9X TO RED LINE and 9X TO BEVERLY/103

[BusHunter]

I like the idea, but I think there would be confusion with the rail lines(Red, Blue, Brown, Green, Orange, Purple, Pink, Yellow). I think a flip sign could be used:

9X: Ashland BRT

9X: to 95th/Red Line or 103rd/Vincennes

"X" to me would make the most sense.

There's lots of different colors they could use. You don't think it would be confusing to have the Jump, Access (if that's what they want to call it) and keep on going with different names. What happens when they have two streets with the same first letter. Chicago and Cicero?

[sw4400]

There's lots of different colors they could use. You don't think it would be confusing to have the Jump, Access (if that's what they want to call it) and keep on going with different names. What happens when they have two streets with the same first letter. Chicago and Cicero?

Naming the BRT routes is silly(Jeffrey Jump, Ashland Access, Chicago Cutter*, Cicero Cross-town*). But looking at the color spectrum ROYGBIV(Red, Orange, Yellow, Green, Blue, Indigo, Violet), many of the main colors are taken. A line like the Red-Orange Line or the Henna Line sound even more odd. Sure CTA can use colors like Gold, Silver and Bronze since they are not used. But after that, without doing a color combo, where do they go?

*= Hypothetical name based on first letter of the street