CTA Service Adjustments

[BusHunter]

I don't know about any buddy else. But,I'm not impress with some of the changes.

Example first bus 6am,then next one 620 am on 148.This is a Route they claim there adding service.Then you got other Routes where all your doing is adding later trips.

To me it looks like most service is going from 10 to 7 minutes in the rush. But to me it seems to be just at the peak of the rush. Some routes like what's left of the #11 are running at 17 minute intervals in the rush. The #148 I believe runs every six minutes in the morning. I'm interested to see what the #146 does. Overall, I think they needed more service on more routes. The #90 is way overcrowded yet it gets nothing here. So if the riding public thinks they won't be standing anymore they have a surprise coming to them.

[jajuan]

However, in those cases, it depends on what was picked up by 146 and 148. It may come down to what was saved not operating on Wilson Ave.

What is happening in this regard may not be obvious, such as it not being evident in the early stages that the real effect of the 28/X28 changes was that the downtown hours were reduced.*

___

*Paragraph rephrased.

You're right but looking out beyond those examples it still doesn't seem to add up. Even with downtown hours reduced on the 28, you're still putting what you had on the X28 back into the 28 locals. The other routes that are either totally eliminated or have segments cut don't seem to add up to enough to cut rush hour intervals on 48 bus routes (original justification) and add 17 rail trips. I don't see too much free up by the 11 because you're still some of that gets put into the reinstituted 37 Sedwick route (with south terminus now Clinton Blue line instead of the prior Harrison/Wells before it previously got absorbed into the 11). The other eliminations only had one or two buses, so definitely not enough to put in elsewhere.

[Busjack]

You're right but looking out beyond those examples it still doesn't seem to add up. Even with down hours reduced on the 28, you're still putting what you had on the X28 back into the 28 locals. The other routes that are either totally eliminated or have segments cut don't seem to add up to enough to cut rush hour intervals on 48 bus routes (original justification) and add 17 rail trips. I don't see too much free up by the 11 because you're still some of that gets put into the reinstituted 37 Sedwick route (with south terminus now Clinton Blue line instead of the prior Harrison/Wells before it previously got absorbed into the 11). The other eliminations only had one or two buses, so definitely not enough to put in elsewhere.

There may be such issues as layover time, but I'm sure nobody from the outside is going to get enough of a look at CTA's books to see if this actually was revenue neutral.

[jajuan]

There may be such issues as layover time, but I'm sure nobody from the outside is going to get enough of a look at CTA's books to see if this actually was revenue neutral.

Unfortunately this is true. They bank on the public in general not doing a mental analysis from each side of what they presented to depth of what you or I or anyone else who likes to take time to picture if what's presented is plausible and in the realm of possibility. I was picturing it just from the level of what's freed up from a route or route segment elimination and where they said the resources from that goes and it wasn't totally meshing. I didn't think along the monetary side beyond the pay of the shuffled operators out because it gets a bit more involved when you consider seniority of who gets what after the changes. But your point is still valid.

[Busjack]

... I didn't think along the monetary side beyond the pay of the shuffled operators out because it gets a bit more involved when you consider seniority of who gets what after the changes. But your point is still valid.

I don't think that makes any difference, in that the same people will be picking, unless hiring or layoffs were involved (and so far, no indication that they were). Going back to the debate over whether the senior employees get the easier work, I doubt it makes any difference, compensation expense wise, whether someone whose pick included 90N now has to work 77, for instance.

The only way this would make a difference in that regard is if the new schedules cut down overtime.

[jajuan]

I don't think that makes any difference, in that the same people will be picking, unless hiring or layoffs were involved (and so far, no indication that they were). Going back to the debate over whether the senior employees get the easier work, I doubt it makes any difference, compensation expense wise, whether someone whose pick included 90N now has to work 77, for instance.

The only way this would make a difference in that regard is if the new schedules cut down overtime.

True. Hard to see if that side of it would come to pass if the new schedules are going to reflect added trips. And if you're still using operators from routes or route segments that no longer exist to cover new trips on a different route there's not really a change because regardless of the person's seniority you still have to pay him for work done either way. The question is does the number of operators coming from eliminated routes or route segments equal what's being put in on routes getting expanded coverage?

[CURRENTZ_09]

All route brochures are uploaded. The routes i see being fully eliminated are the New 1, they cleaned up the 120, 121 & 148 nicely

[artthouwill]

Yes from the looks of it the only privately funded routes that are confirmed to be on the way out are the 170s at the end of their contract next August. The interesting thing is that The Chicago Maroon makes no mention of the 192 going anywhere. So is it possible that U of C balked at paying more to keep the routes serving the students but the Hospital had enough clout to get them to keep 192 going? As for BusAngel's predictions this time around, I bowed out of making a comment this time because I remember when I challenged him on the change to the 48 to go to Evergreen Plaza while ending at Western Orange Line on the north end on similar grounds as he got challenged this time only to have that prediction from him bear out also.

I believe there are two contracts with U of C, one for routes 170,171,& 172, and one contract for the 192, which was I believe the original contract. The Hospital runs, when operated by a private carrier ran about $100 per trip. It could be the ridership on the Hospital runs ciuld justify paying the rate paid 10 years ago, they can pay now. I don't have access to ridership on the other University routes, but the trend in transportation is to get a (bigger) subsidy or bail out. Even with EAS subsidies from the Feds, major airlines are dropping or trying to drop these routes. EAS is Essential Air Service, which provides airline service from small, distant rural communities to bigger airports. The government provides a subsidy based usually on the lowest bid by an airline, which is usually very steep. Anyway, the point I'm making is that CTA isn't making money on these routes via the farebox and with the increased cost of fuel, is looking to the subsidy increase to offset its rising costs to operate the shuttle routes. The question is will the University seek to bid out the 192 as well?

[Busjack]

All route brochures are uploaded. The routes i see being fully eliminated are the New 1, they cleaned up the 120, 121 & 148 nicely

Not all of them.

However, with respect to 146, the midday changed from once every 20 minutes to "every 10 minutes to Wilson/Marine Drive and every 20 minutes to Berwyn Red Line." In the rush hour, the Planetarium to Berwyn trips are about the same, but added between them are trips from Irving Park to Roosevelt-State SB and Randolph-State to Grace-Lake Shore NB. So, it appears that the Mark Grace portion of 145 was incorporated into 146 (again as I predicted), although Randolph-State seems a bit strange (i.e., no indication of any southbound trip ending there).

[renardo870]

You're right but looking out beyond those examples it still doesn't seem to add up. Even with downtown hours reduced on the 28, you're still putting what you had on the X28 back into the 28 locals. The other routes that are either totally eliminated or have segments cut don't seem to add up to enough to cut rush hour intervals on 48 bus routes (original justification) and add 17 rail trips. I don't see too much free up by the 11 because you're still some of that gets put into the reinstituted 37 Sedwick route (with south terminus now Clinton Blue line instead of the prior Harrison/Wells before it previously got absorbed into the 11). The other eliminations only had one or two buses, so definitely not enough to put in elsewhere.

Waste of money to split the 11/37 when in a few months they will put the 11 back together again 90 days into this 180 day experiment and same for the 145. Save the old bus stops...How do u justify a de-crowding plan with route cuts on routes with decent ridership based on this CTA Ridership Report Oct 2012? I smell a rat!!!

11 Lincoln/Sedgwick 5,844 Mon-Fri 2,475 Sat 1,731 Sun 1,419,958 as of Oct 2012

145 Wilson/Michigan Express 6,450 Mon-Fri 4,475 Sat 3,328 Sun 1,780,854 as of Oct 2012

[Busjack]

Waste of money to split the 11/37 when in a few months they will put the 11 back together again 90 days into this 180 day experiment and same for the 145....

Do you have any evidence that the bull heads who run the CTA have any intention of doing that?

Nothing was said that this is an experiment. They held the necessary public hearing and that was that.

[sw4400]

Waste of money to split the 11/37 when in a few months they will put the 11 back together again 90 days into this 180 day experiment and same for the 145. Save the old bus stops...How do u justify a de-crowding plan with route cuts on routes with decent ridership based on this CTA Ridership Report Oct 2012? I smell a rat!!!

11 Lincoln/Sedgwick 5,844 Mon-Fri 2,475 Sat 1,731 Sun 1,419,958 as of Oct 2012

145 Wilson/Michigan Express 6,450 Mon-Fri 4,475 Sat 3,328 Sun 1,780,854 as of Oct 2012

Thank you!!!

[sw4400]

Do you have any evidence that the bull heads who run the CTA have any intention of doing that?

Nothing was said that this is an experiment. They held the necessary public hearing and that was that.

This is the one time I'm hoping they do return the #11 service. I fear you're correct and it won't happen, but all the businesses from Fullerton to Western along Lincoln are going to suffer. The CTA didn't think this one through at all!!!

[mkohut]

This is the one time I'm hoping they do return the #11 service. I fear you're correct and it won't happen, but all the businesses from Fullerton to Western along Lincoln are going to suffer. The CTA didn't think this one through at all!!!

I agree with you.They have a hard enough time between Parking Meters cost,Trying to avoid getting a ticket with a Camera,and the sales tax.

Harlem Irving Plaza is getting bigger.It shows what business can do without Chicago stupidity.

[Busjack]

Still no 111 schedule. However, the 115 schedule indicates that it is still NB on King Dr. between 111th and 115th, so maybe that's why 111, and not 115, is the King Dr. bus.

Anyway, that explains why Pace isn't covering any part of King Dr.

[jajuan]

This is the one time I'm hoping they do return the #11 service. I fear you're correct and it won't happen, but all the businesses from Fullerton to Western along Lincoln are going to suffer. The CTA didn't think this one through at all!!!

This is something we all said to some degree from the moment the details of this stupid plan became public. It's obvious they didn't think this through based on what routes and route sections are left standing on corridors that have much lower ridership numbers than what was scaled back. The streamlining of the north Lake Shore routes at least folds some of what was scaled back into what remains along with there being a direct local transit alternative on most of the Wilson portion that no longer gets express bus service. But with the portion of Lincoln cut off from bus service has no direct alternative because the Brown Line is in no way a direct alternative no matter how the CTA board tries to slice it. The Sedwick leg of bus service is instead the direct bus parallel/duplicate of the Brown Line yet the 37 gets resurrected with a modified south terminus that reflects that change when it was first folded into the 11.

[renardo870]

This is something we all said to some degree from the moment the details of this stupid plan became public. It's obvious they didn't think this through based on what routes and route sections are left standing on corridors that have much lower ridership numbers than what was scaled back. The streamlining of the north Lake Shore routes at least folds some of what was scaled back into what remains along with there being a direct local transit alternative on most of the Wilson portion that no longer gets express bus service. But with the portion of Lincoln cut off from bus service has no direct alternative because the Brown Line is in no way a direct alternative no matter how the CTA board tries to slice it. The Sedwick leg of bus service is instead the direct bus parallel/duplicate of the Brown Line yet the 37 gets resurrected with a modified south terminus that reflects that change when it was first folded into the 11.

The 11 Lincoln cut will cost the CTA Claypool a black eye. No one over there can give u a logical reason/truth why this route is being carved up with no service between Fullerton and Western. Trying to picture wheelchairs and elderly people on the Brown Line on an already congested train/platform and transfer to an already crowded 40ft bus and then crawl/hobble/wheel their way on Lincoln Ave, when u already have a 40LF bus directly on Lincoln and now u are cutting a bus during the Christmas Holiday on top of that, and NO WEEKEND SERVICE AT ALL? CTA must have learned its cold heartedness from Ebenezer Scrooge himself!!! BAH HUMBUG!!! Maybe those three ghost should pay someone a visit. Just a thought!

[Busjack]

The DNAinfo link on the home page has some numbers about the 170s. Apparently CTA was subsidizing it 25%, but wants the U of C to pay the full freight after August 2013, so it is obvious why the U of C would be "exploring other options." Private operators couldn't be more expensive.

With the prior debate on competing with charter operators, at least this reinforces my view that tax money shouldn't be used to subsidize essentially private operations, even if those without student ID were carried if they paid the usual fare. I say the same for Pace UPS routes.

[See Tea Eh]

The DNAinfo link on the home page has some numbers about the 170s. Apparently CTA was subsidizing it 25%, but wants the U of C to pay the full freight after August 2013, so it is obvious why the U of C would be "exploring other options." Private operators couldn't be more expensive.

Interesting that the linked article claims that the 173 and 174 were cut last August. I could have sworn those routes have been gone for at least three years.

[mkohut]

According to the Sun Times there is a new method to save Route 11.

A Northwest side alderman offered Friday to use surplus funds from a local tax-increment-financing (TIF) district to save a CTA bus route he called a “lifeline” for local seniors.

[Busjack]

According to the Sun Times there is a new method to save Route 11.

A Northwest side alderman offered Friday to use surplus funds from a local tax-increment-financing (TIF) district to save a CTA bus route he called a "lifeline" for local seniors.

Same alderman who hasn't been able to do anything for sw's ward up to now.

Note that the article indicated that this was "last ditch," and required legislative approval.

Also note Claypool's response in that article, and then go back to what I said about bull headed leadership at the CTA. Claypool's "let them walk several blocks" didn't answer the claim that many of the disabled seniors can't.

[renardo870]

Same alderman who hasn't been able to do anything for sw's ward up to now.

Note that the article indicated that this was "last ditch," and required legislative approval.

Also note Claypool's response in that article, and then go back to what I said about bull headed leadership at the CTA. Claypool's "let them walk several blocks" didn't answer the claim that many of the disabled seniors can't.

As if he is a deaf and cant hear the echoes of 5800 riders(not 580) of the Lincoln bus route. It will be interesting to see what happens at the board meeting.

[mkohut]

As if he is a deaf and cant hear the echoes of 5800 riders(not 580) of the Lincoln bus route. It will be interesting to see what happens at the board meeting.

I think Claypool and Emanuel are too stupid to realize if these people decide to take Para Transit.

That Para Transit will be fully funded from the RTA.That also will mean less money for Pace,Metra,and the CTA.

[mkohut]

Same alderman who hasn't been able to do anything for sw's ward up to now.

Note that the article indicated that this was "last ditch," and required legislative approval.

Also note Claypool's response in that article, and then go back to what I said about bull headed leadership at the CTA. Claypool's "let them walk several blocks" didn't answer the claim that many of the disabled seniors can't.

There is a chance.Some money go to the schools and considering what CPS bank account looks like.

[Busjack]

As if he is a deaf and cant hear the echoes of 5800 riders(not 580) of the Lincoln bus route. It will be interesting to see what happens at the board meeting.

If you had read jajuan's and my comments, you would realize that the issue isn't the 5800 riders on the current route, as that includes riders on the segments north of Lawrence and south of Fullerton, that are being retained.

Similarly, your previous citation of numbers for 145 isn't relevant, since the 146 schedule indicates that service is being retained south of Montrose or Irving Park, at the frequency previously covered by both routes 145 and 146.

The only relevant numbers are those on Lincoln between Western and Fullerton and on Wilson itself. CTA may have the numbers based on the gps counters at the doorwells, but I am sure you don't.