CTA Service Adjustments

[jajuan]

I see that.

The essential problem is that the general literature didn't describe the particulars in the timetables showing trips being truncated or the like. Our members have found numerous instances of that type above. On the other hand, increased service hasn't been evident either, such as the time tables not showing the Brownage trips that one member got from data mining.

About the only thing that adds up with that route in particular is you have more trips on the peak direction than the off peak direction in each rush period (more NB trips to Union Station than SB trips leaving Union Station in the AM rush for example), which in a sense one would probably find understandable.

[Busjack]

About the only thing that adds up with that route in particular is you have more trips on the peak direction than the off peak direction in each rush period (more NB trips to Union Station than SB trips leaving Union Station in the AM rush for example), which in a sense one would probably find understandable.

Depends on what you can read into the "Every 6 to 13 minute" and "Every 8 to 10 minute" blocks. Would necessarily involve some deadheads to 47th.

[jajuan]

Depends on what you can read into the "Every 6 to 13 minute" and "Every 8 to 10 minute" blocks. Would necessarily involve some deadheads to 47th.

True.

[Guest]

Route #81W West Lawerence buses now read "#81W WEST LAWERENCE" "via RIVER RD" to "CUMBERLAND BLUE LINE" of "JEFFERSON PARK/BLUE LINE"

[cta_44499_FG]

I don't see a need to send every Belmont bus to Cumberland during midday or on weekends,except during the obvious rush periods where a lot of folks obviously would go that far in addition to Guerin HS service. The current midday headway on weekdays is 10 minutes. The ridership west of Octavia would fare fine with a 20 minute headway and a 10 minute headway east of Octavia.

A similar practice was involved on Archer before '10 cuts on weekdays, where every other bus would terminate at Cicero or Neva. Don't know if this done anymore but evidently still occurs on Saturdays.

[mkohut]

I don't see a need to send every Belmont bus to Cumberland during midday or on weekends,except during the obvious rush periods where a lot of folks obviously would go that far in addition to Guerin HS service. The current midday headway on weekdays is 10 minutes. The ridership west of Octavia would fare fine with a 20 minute headway and a 10 minute headway east of Octavia.

A similar practice was involved on Archer before '10 cuts on weekdays, where every other bus would terminate at Cicero or Neva. Don't know if this done anymore but evidently still occurs on Saturdays.

If you did that you will have the community complaining about exhaust humes.

[cta_44499_FG]

If you did that you will have the community complaining about exhaust humes.

If they're not complaining about it during owl service (when people are actually trying to sleep and can hear the bus idling as well) I don't see this as an issue. That terminal has been there as long as Cumberland.

[mkohut]

If they're not complaining about it during owl service (when people are actually trying to sleep and can hear the bus idling as well) I don't see this as an issue. That terminal has been there as long as Cumberland.

Your forgetting how many buses are at nite and how many during the day would use it.

[See Tea Eh]

Your forgetting how many buses are at nite and how many during the day would use it.

The bus loop at Octavia has been there forever, and buses have been using it forever. It hasn't been a problem thus far, and today's buses are much quieter and less polluting than those from previous years. Why would it suddenly become a problem now?

[mkohut]

The bus loop at Octavia has been there forever, and buses have been using it forever. It hasn't been a problem thus far, and today's buses are much quieter and less polluting than those from previous years. Why would it suddenly become a problem now?

The point I'm trying to make is if you have a major increase.

Its not going to make that much of a difference have buses go there instead of Cumberland.

Unless you want then to stop there so they can go to White Castle.

[BusHunter]

I don't see a need to send every Belmont bus to Cumberland during midday or on weekends,except during the obvious rush periods where a lot of folks obviously would go that far in addition to Guerin HS service. The current midday headway on weekdays is 10 minutes. The ridership west of Octavia would fare fine with a 20 minute headway and a 10 minute headway east of Octavia.

A similar practice was involved on Archer before '10 cuts on weekdays, where every other bus would terminate at Cicero or Neva. Don't know if this done anymore but evidently still occurs on Saturdays.

Yes, but alot of the Cicero to Harlem crowd on Archer has the #62H to fall back on. I can see doing that just because of the redundancy. #77 doesn't have that, plus it is a top route in ridership. Does CTA do that with the #3 or other top ridership routes? I can see the benefits of short turning at Octavia to help maintain schedule, but these are pullins that are not a factor heading the other way. Something else I've noticed recently with this pick is now the #152's do the same as the #77's were doing all along (since '10) From 5-7 PM the pullins are pulling in at Harlem. Before this pick only the summer picks did that, understandably because there is no school. From what I've seen so far this seems to have resulted in a ridership decline for those riders, but some of that crowd will use the #90 service instead.

[Busjack]

Does CTA do that with the #3 or other top ridership routes?

The current 3 schedule shows alternate trips between 4:31 and 5:33 (Ontario-Fairbanks) ending at 79th. Trips used to end at 81st, for no particular reason (i.e. the garage is on 79th).

There are certain 79 tips that begin or end at Wentworth (mostly weekend).

6 used to have trips ending at 63rd, but apparently no longer.

[artthouwill]

. Does CTA do that with the #3 or other top ridership routes?

The 3 has trips beginning and ending at 79th during peak times

The 79th has buses terminating at Western throughout the day while others go all the way to Ford City.

The 87th St bus also has many buses terminating at Western throughout the day. This route also has short turns at Anthony, which is just east of Chicago Vocational Career Academy (High School), and some terminating at Halsted.

The 63rd route used to have short turns at Kedzie instead of Midway

The 55 Garfield short turns some buses at St Louis instead of Midway.

[cta5658]

The 3 has trips beginning and ending at 79th during peak times

The 79th has buses terminating at Western throughout the day while others go all the way to Ford City.

The 87th St bus also has many buses terminating at Western throughout the day. This route also has short turns at Anthony, which is just east of Chicago Vocational Career Academy (High School), and some terminating at Halsted.

The 63rd route used to have short turns at Kedzie instead of Midway

The 55 Garfield short turns some buses at St Louis instead of Midway.

Question, how does the #55 Short Turn Buses at St Louis since that school was built where the turnaround used to be at on st. louis?

[artthouwill]

Question, how does the #55 Short Turn Buses at St Louis since that school was built where the turnaround used to be at on st. louis?

They do it somehow, because the owl buses still don't go to MDW.

[rl12383]

They do it somehow, because the owl buses still don't go to MDW.

They built the turnaround around the school... serves a dual perpose now, used for parents to pick up there kids and for the 55 to layover

[qwantae]

First of All. I don't see any changes on #14/J14, the last Departure at Washington/ Jefferson remained the same, I thought it was suppose to restore back to 11:35 PM (Weekdays) like it was before the Doomsday Service Cuts?

[jajuan]

First of All. I don't see any changes on #14/J14, the last Departure at Washington/ Jefferson remained the same, I thought it was suppose to restore back to 11:35 PM (Weekdays) like it was before the Doomsday Service Cuts?

Actually that's incorrect. The schedule shows a last weekday departure from downtown at 11:10 PM when the previous last departure was 10:30 PM. And last NB departure from 103rd is now 10:20 PM when the previous last departure was approximately 9:30 PM. So they did extend hours just not to the 11:35 PM pre-Doomsday last departure leaving downtown.

[Busjack]

Question, how does the #55 Short Turn Buses at St Louis since that school was built where the turnaround used to be at on st. louis?

There was an agreement that the CTA got the right to build a driveway around the school. That's visible on this Google Map, and apparently is named "Norman Bobbins Place."

[jajuan]

The current 3 schedule shows alternate trips between 4:31 and 5:33 (Ontario-Fairbanks) ending at 79th. Trips used to end at 81st, for no particular reason (i.e. the garage is on 79th).

There are certain 79 tips that begin or end at Wentworth (mostly weekend).

6 used to have trips ending at 63rd, but apparently no longer.

Actually the 6 still does have 63rd/Stony short turns. They're reflected on the schedule for Saturdays until late afternoon/early evening hours.

[BusHunter]

One thing I can say that is positive about all this is that they really boosted service on the Blue line on weekends. (They also boosted weekend service on the Red and Brown lines) Trains are about 5-6 minutes apart now, before they were 10 minutes plus. Every other train goes to UIC. Service actually seems better than during the week. I like the change, even though it does short change the Forest Park branch, but they appear to have almost the same service as the whole line did before. Maybe they should test this idea out on the buses. It could actually have a positive response if riders knew when the service was to the cut sections, but the challenge would lie on where to cut. I'm sure with all the ridership statistics CTA has though that shouldn't be a problem.

[jajuan]

One thing I can say that is positive about all this is that they really boosted service on the Blue line on weekends. (They also boosted weekend service on the Red and Brown lines) Trains are about 5-6 minutes apart now, before they were 10 minutes plus. Every other train goes to UIC. Service actually seems better than during the week. I like the change, even though it does short change the Forest Park branch, but they appear to have almost the same service as the whole line did before. Maybe they should test this idea out on the buses. It could actually have a positive response if riders knew when the service was to the cut sections, but the challenge would lie on where to cut. I'm sure with all the ridership statistics CTA has though that shouldn't be a problem.

Given that the rail lines on average cover larger service areas than an individual bus route might, what works for a rail route doesn't instantly translate as being good for a bus route unless it's heavy ridership and/or a relatively long route. They're already doing this to some degree among the bus routes highlighted as being high ridership routes, so how much further do you think they can go beyond that before they're actually harming service on that bus route instead of making more efficient use of the buses that serve the route?

[BusHunter]

Given that the rail lines on average cover larger service areas than an individual bus route might, what works for a rail route doesn't instantly translate as being good for a bus route unless it's heavy ridership and/or a relatively long route. They're already doing this to some degree among the bus routes highlighted as being high ridership routes, so how much further do you think they can go beyond that before they're actually harming service on that bus route instead of making more efficient use of the buses that serve the route?

Just seeing all the extra service you can get by doing this just seems so smart. Also you don't have trains using up unwanted miles and the service is less packed. As far as buses, like for the #11, they could actually run every second or third bus through the cut section. This way they get service back even if it is 40 minutes apart. At least they do have service. They could short turn every other #49 at Brown line instead of Berwyn and that would add extra service to the heart of the #49. Then instead of everyone being neck and neck on the bus, they could actually sit down because there would be more buses in the heart of the route. At least it should be studied.

[jajuan]

Just seeing all the extra service you can get by doing this just seems so smart. Also you don't have trains using up unwanted miles and the service is less packed. As far as buses, like for the #11, they could actually run every second or third bus through the cut section. This way they get service back even if it is 40 minutes apart. At least they do have service. They could short turn every other #49 at Brown line instead of Berwyn and that would add extra service to the heart of the #49. Then instead of everyone being neck and neck on the bus, they could actually sit down because there would be more buses in the heart of the route. At least it should be studied.

How about we actually see if this plan works with what routes they're already doing similar on before looking to expand it any further. We really need to break out of this mode of thinking that cutting back = more efficient. Your 49 example for instance doesn't exactly work because as the way things work now, up to half of those riding a 49B offload at Berwyn to catch a 49 with the rest basically riding to grab the Brown Line. So basically all you're creating with looking to short turn more northbound buses than necessary is a situation for 49 buses to already be full at the terminal instead of filling up as you reach the heart of the route. Is really hard to grasp that there are routes that have strong ridership over the length of the entire route and not just sections? And weren't you just arguing against expanding short turning a few days ago when someone else suggested doing so with the 77?

[Busjack]

Just seeing all the extra service you can get by doing this just seems so smart. Also you don't have trains using up unwanted miles and the service is less packed. As far as buses, like for the #11, they could actually run every second or third bus through the cut section. This way they get service back even if it is 40 minutes apart. At least they do have service. They could short turn every other #49 at Brown line instead of Berwyn and that would add extra service to the heart of the #49. Then instead of everyone being neck and neck on the bus, they could actually sit down because there would be more buses in the heart of the route. At least it should be studied.

Actually, Krambles implied something similar 20 years ago but never got to it when he said (page 132, footnote 8) "Short trip riders who go through peak load points on long lines may actually be the most costly to the Authority since only traveling a short distance, they set the maximum amount of equipment that must be operated." Of course, he was speaking about fare policy rather than allocation of equipment.

I suppose that an argument could be made that since 49 and 49B overlap between Berwyn and the Brown Line, all 49s should end at the Brown Line, but apparently the Berwyn terminal (which goes back to Green Hornet streetcar days) has utility for the amount of buses needing to lay over, as well as jajuan's point that most of those on 49B riding through on 49 transfer at Berwyn.

art mentioned a number of short turn routes, mostly of very long standing (i.e. 55 had a short turn at St. Louis when it was extended from Morgan with the opening of the Dan Ryan line in 1969, and I'll bet that 6 Garfield has a similar one before then), but I don't remember any that were strictly the center portion of a route (i.e. Western from Archer to Milwaukee, for instance).

How about we actually see if this plan works with what routes they're already doing similar on before looking to expand it any further. ... And weren't you just arguing against expanding short turning a few days ago when someone else suggested doing so with the 77?

The first is undoubtedly the case, although I don't see CTA revisiting this for a while (like maybe 6 years, especially if they think more artics will do the job). However, on the second point, the trend on this thread has been that when the short turns were mentioned, calling the CTA liars, but BusHunter's post seems to be the first to say that it is working.